Batboard

I just upgraded the firmware on my APXs, and noticed that a new firmware feature was listed in the README (starting with 7.00.00), "GPS on Conventional PTT".

I presume this feature allows sending the current GPS coordinates with every keyup in conventional systems, but can find no further information anywhere. There don't seem to be any references to this feature in APX CPS 8.0, or any in any other documentation I can find.

Anyone know how to turn this on, what format the location is sent, what kinds of conventional systems this works for (ASTRO25? MDC?), how to decode it, etc.

Thanks

Abstract: GPS Location on Conventional PTT

System Platforms Affected: Conventional with Data

Special Configurations: GPS capability enabled; Portable and Mobile radios supported.

Description: The feature adds the capability to send a GPS location report on PTT release while on a Conventional APCO channel.

To prevent audio throughput delay or voice truncation, the location report is generated after PTT is released and the data packet follows the voice transmission. PTT trigger can be used along with other location report triggers (Emergency, distance, etc).

Thanks for the reply XMO.

That's what I figured, but I can't see anywhere to turn this on the APX CPS (8.0.1). Any idea? My APX portables have the GPS and P25 data options, etc Or perhaps this a new option that has to be flashed? Is the data format documented anywhere?

Thanks

In what format is the data packet? Does this still require IV&D?

mab wrote:I just upgraded the firmware on my APXs, and noticed that a new firmware feature was listed in the README (starting with 7.00.00), "GPS on Conventional PTT".

I presume this feature allows sending the current GPS coordinates with every keyup in conventional systems, but can find no further information anywhere. There don't seem to be any references to this feature in APX CPS 8.0, or any in any other documentation I can find.

Anyone know how to turn this on, what format the location is sent, what kinds of conventional systems this works for (ASTRO25? MDC?), how to decode it, etc.

Thanks

I too have been through the version R08 APX CPS. If there is anything in the settings, I haven't found it. Plus Motorola should be embarrassed in trying to pass that software out to the field. In all my years working with the Motorola software and the software from other vendors, this is the worst. Who ever was in charge of that software needs to be looking for a new job. Guess they never heard about working with those that wrote the past software for other radios. Plus they have got carried away with the size of it and the memory requirements for the computer to run it on. You could do much better with some of the kids right out of high school to write the program than who ever did the APX software.

This is one subject that Motorola has kept very close to their vest. In trying to pry some details out of mother M is like trying to get a mule to drink from the water bucket. You can get the mule to the bucket, but that's it. So far I have been frustrated in doing everything that the GPS web site asks you to jump through all the hoops. Talking with MOL and being passed off to others is just like leading the mule to the water bucket. The best so far has been the comment to go talk with one of the third party software vendors listed on the Motorola web site. Not sure how some of them even made the list. When you call these vendors, they have no clue to what your even talking about.

I am starting to think that this is a dream application in some managers office meeting that was only half way implemented. Those of us that have been around long enough tend to call things like this vapor ware.

Guess Motorola just can't figure out why their customers keep going to other radio vendors.

Jim

I am sure there is someone out there that has been sold an APX7500, APX6000 or an APX7000 with the GPS options and given the impression that they are good to go to be able to obtain the GPS information from the field units on a non trunking, conventional radio system.

The information culled from several conversations and the extremely limited documentation from Motorola indicates that this will work with a P25 conventional radio system. However, that is the end of the trail.

Can someone step up to the plate and provide a list of the hardware and software it will take to make this work? Motorola doesn't seen to be interested in doing it.

Is this vapor ware or does this GPS actually function in the conventional mode on these radios?

Jim

I am interested to know, if there is no place to activate this function in CPS, is it already active on all GPS equipped APX radios by default? Perhaps the location information is automatically included as part of the last P25 packet sent? This opens up a whole can of security issues if it is, for instance, is the location data encrypted along with voice?

Andrew

Bigfella237 wrote:I am interested to know, if there is no place to activate this function in CPS, is it already active on all GPS equipped APX radios by default? Perhaps the location information is automatically included as part of the last P25 packet sent? This opens up a whole can of security issues if it is, for instance, is the location data encrypted along with voice?

Andrew

It is painfully clear that those that attempted to write this software, never have been out in the field using a radio before. It is also clear that they never asked any users just how things should function. What is also extremely obvious, is they never consulted any radio tech on how the software should function while trying to program these radios.

I think this all goes back a number of years to when The Galvin brothers ran and controlled the Motorola company. Paul started the company way back in 1928. Then Robert took over control around 1958 through 1990. Chris stepped in and sort of wondered around and didn't do as good of a job as his father Robert. In 2003, the board brought in Ed Zander to see if he could get the company back on track. My personal feeling is Chris was forced to make some of the decisions that he made by the board and not the way the company should have gone as before.

The results were not very good and Zander took over to focus on the cellular market. He sort of lost sight of what was going on in the land mobile market. His management methods didn't seem to do anything for the company. That was when the LMR customers started to get the brush off and we saw the short life span of the LMR radio products. Customer support went out the window.

The cell phone part of Motorola was in trouble. Carl Icahn stepped in and had invested in a stake of Motorola. Icahn then started a push for Zander to be replaced. Maybe Zander's hard pushing to change Motorola went against the old culture and caused the good talent to be confused and then leave the company.

Then in 2007 the board brought in Greg Brown to run the company. Again the land mobile radio seems to have been forgotten and customer care went even further down hill. Motorola sold off the handset group to Google, if I have my facts correct. Now we are stuck with what we have now in that the customer is no longer number one concern. It is strictly the bottom financial line. Lets see how long the share holders hold this approach before they start to complain of poor return on their investment. There is already a move by public safety, Utility, land transportation and even the Federal Government to start going to other radio vendors.

The next step is up to Motorola. The company will either step up to the plate and start paying attention to it's customers and support radio shops or we will see another company go the way that other companies like Aerotron, Link, RCA and others have gone.

Jim

I have GPS in our APX7000 radios. They need to be orderd with the packet data and GPS flash. Then the option will show in the CPS. You can have the GPS always on or user selectable from the radio menu. We do not send GPS data over the air as the equipment required to interface at the console was quoted about $100K by Moto. The Lat & Long are are displayed on the radio and the user gives his location by voice over the air. Thales has the best cost effective GPS system for showing users on a map. Using the T25 radios with external GPS, the base radio T25 is linked to a computer with mapping software and the radios location shows up on the screen.

As with most things Moto, I cannot imagine how it would cost $100K to implement PC based geo-tracking (I'm not saying I don't believe you were quoted that), surely it would just require a radio, a data cable and some simple software to take the unit ID and the Lat/Long then overlay them on a mapping program of your choice?

Take ADS-B as an example, there are many software packages around, some of which include the receiver, which for a reasonable price allow you to track multiple aircraft while displaying their IDs, some basic info such as altitude/heading and their positions, I'm sure the same principle could apply here?

Andrew

loband wrote:I have GPS in our APX7000 radios. They need to be orderd with the packet data and GPS flash. Then the option will show in the CPS. You can have the GPS always on or user selectable from the radio menu. We do not send GPS data over the air as the equipment required to interface at the console was quoted about $100K by Moto. The Lat & Long are are displayed on the radio and the user gives his location by voice over the air. Thales has the best cost effective GPS system for showing users on a map. Using the T25 radios with external GPS, the base radio T25 is linked to a computer with mapping software and the radios location shows up on the screen.

I have the packet data and GPS options flashed in my APXs, but cannot find any options in the CPS related to sending the data over the air. (The option to turn the GPS on and off has always been there; I'm talking about the option supposedly released starting in firmware R7.00.00 to send the location on conventional PTT).

Are you saying you've found a configuration screen in the CPS to send the GPS data with each PTT? Where is it?

Thanks

I haven't found the actual option yet but from what little info I have been able to find I think "GPS on Conventional PTT" is setup in "Action Consolidations"?

Unfortunately this menu only applies to mobile radios and I don't have a codeplug from a mobile so can't see the field in CPS to confirm, can anyone suggest where I can download a generic APX7500 codeplug with GPS / Data in the flashcode so I can continue the search?

BTW, a note on the GPS mapping software and possibly why it's so expensive.. I saw this in the help screens while looking for the above:

"LRRP [Location Request Response Protocol] is a Motorola Proprietary protocol used to exchange location information (longitude and latitude) between the radio and a data device such as a Mobile Computer in the CEN (Customer Enterprise Network)."

Hence no third party software to bring about a reality check on Motorola's pricing!

Andrew