Batboard

I have an MSF5000 repeater that I am trying to get to work in DES (not DES-XL) mode. It is set to repeat encrypted signals. It works fine except that while repeating, the transmitter winks off and then comes back on about once each second. I have confirmed that it is the repeater doing this and not any of the units in the field.

Is this normal behavior for DES pass-through? If not, what's wrong?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

David

If the station is programmed for transparent secure repeat it shouldn't care whether the incoming signal is XL or not. That would only matter if you had a secure hybrid on the secure board to pass unencrypted audio down the wireline.

You're saying TX is completely dropping during secure repeat once a second, but not in clear analog?

Yes, that is what I am saying.

David

I was on my iPhone when I answered before. I am home now and can say more about it. The repeater is configured for transparent mode. About once each second while receiving an encrypted signal, the "PA Full", "PA On", "Rx Lock", "Tx Lock", and "PA Key" lights on the control wink off and the TX winks off with it. This does not happen in analog mode. Other than this winking-off thing, the repeater passes encrypted signals correctly. All analog operation is normal.

One additional piece of info. With the test set hooked up, I noted that while receiving an encrypted signal the RPT PTT (1, D3) and the RX CD DT (3, D1) lights do not stay on continuously. They wink on briefly, which keys the TX, and then go immediately back off. After about a second, the TX winks off as described above, and at the time the RPT PTT and RX CD DT lights flash on again momentarily to begin the cycle anew. If I use the test set to manually set RX CD DT to the "on" position, the winking problem goes away. Please note that during all of this, the "Rx CD" light on the front of the controller is continuously lit while receiving an encrypted signal; it does not wink.

This encryption board was added to the controller of a previously-unencrypted repeater. I have verified that all three boards have a compatible set of firmware. My guess is that either some jumper in the controller was not set to the correct position when the board was installed, or some parameter in the programming is not set correctly. Unfortunately, I may not have the correct versions of the relevant manuals to check jumpers and programming, so any help on this will be appreciated.

David

After further testing, I have become convinced that the problem is the programming of three parameters in the RSS. In "Mode Information: the three parameters are "Receiver Control", "Repeater Activate", and "Repeater Holdin". This repeater is intended to be PL, and those three parameters were all set to "SC". If I change them all to "S" then the winking problem goes away. Of course, the PL goes away too, which is unacceptable.

Does anyone know what those three parameters should be set for on a PL repeater with transparent encryption?

Thanks.

David

The RX LOCK and TX LOCK LEDs winking off indicates a power supply problem to me. These should be on forever, once the station completes its self-tests. If you lose lock, the station should un-key. This could be caused by a bad connection on the Uniboard, or a bad 5V regulator under the Uniboard, or a bad 9.6V supply.

I don't have any info about the PL setting as I never worked with a secure board.

Bob M.

You are correct. Looking again, the "Rx Lock" and "Tx Lock" lights are staying on. Just the others are winking off. My mistake.

I have determined additional information. I have been saying that the system winks "about once each second." I turns out that it is the length of the hang timer. So clearly, what is happening is that when an encrypted signal is received it keys the TX but is not activating the repeater holdin, so when the hang timer expires the repeater goes off. Then, if the encrypted signal is still present, it immediately comes back on and the cycle repeats. I verified this by changing the length of the hang timer, which changed the length of time between winks accordingly.

I have tried every possible combination of settings, with no luck. I am baffled. Does anyone have the manual for the secure board in an MSF?

David

There's some info in the programming manual but nothing that seems to affect keyup/holdin, and of course the depot manual has the schematics, parts list, theory of operation, and troubleshooting. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a separate manual just for the secure board, because it's not covered in the thin (later) installation or UHF service manuals.

Does the station also have a wild card? Perhaps that's doing something to you as well.

Bob M.

I did check the manuals I have. The current service manual just has the jumpers, schematic, parts list, and component layout. The depot manual has a very detailed explanation of transparent and secure audio and logic paths.

I did determine that the secure board communicates with the rest of the station via the MUXBus and the High-Speed Ring buffer. You can monitor the MUXBus with either a digital metering panel or a computer running RSS. The HSR can be viewed through the front panel display, but it's not easy.

There could also be a firmware mismatch, in other words the SEC firmware version isn't one of the allowable values that goes with the SSCB and TTRC firmware. I would think that the programming software would detect this and either offer to fix it or tell you it can't operate this way.

Have you tried building up a new clean code plug starting with one of the default ones?

One more thing comes to mind. Is the station configured for full-duplex operation everywhere, including the TTRC? It's almost as if the station decides to stop processing the received signal as soon as the transmitter comes on, and if something was still set for half-duplex, this is almost the way it would have to operate.

Bob M.

If I remember correctly,coded transmit deviation was important. Check out the last two pages of this pdf.

http://www.hawaiirepeaters.net/msf-align.pdf

Check out the PSB's here:

http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorol ... index.html

There was only one alignment value I had to mess with, and it was the Coded TX Modulation.. not sure if that's the exact nomenclature but you get the idea. IIRC when selected it generated a tone internally that you adjusted up or down for 4 KHz measured FM deviation. There are two jumpers that have to be moved to include the secure board in the HSR, but if they're not set properly with a secure board plugged in you'll get fatal errors and the station won't boot.

I don't have a saved codeplug from the one station I set up to pass secure, but I'm pretty sure I left the squelch qualifiers at default.