Batboard

Do you think they will or if they already have an option to add DMR to there APX line.. I think it would be great since they have alot of options already in them why not..

Maybe, maybe not.

Never going to happen. If anything it would be a new line so they could suck out more money.

Several people who work in Chicago have told me prototypes exist, but will never see the light of day. GARY

N4KVE wrote:Several people who work in Chicago have told me prototypes exist, but will never see the light of day. GARY

That is the rumor but none who have ever claimed to have seen it or even claim to have it yet to produce it.

Apparently there has been some movement,

Complete the survey if interested to increase the chance of getting MotoTrbo firmware into the APX product line

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/96ZDJPQ

CoM

That survey is fake as hell. Motorola is not doing market research on friggin' Survey Monkey.

Give me a break. Stop wasting people's time.

Survey Monkey? LMFAO

Maybe I'm missing something... but what the hell is a "Freon-based" radio?

chartofmaryland wrote:https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/96ZDJPQ

I'll vouch for the authenticity of the survey. The intent at several meetings I've been made aware of is to gauge community interest in who wants it, who will pay for it, and what will they pay for it. This is one of the last efforts that will be put forth (if I had to guess) to get the feature put in APX. If you want it I would take the chances on a 2 minute Survey Monkey and submit it. What's the worst possible outcome? You still don't have DMR in the radio.

triptolemus wrote:That survey is fake as hell. Motorola is not doing market research on friggin' Survey Monkey.

Give me a break. Stop wasting people's time.

It most certainly is not.

sjxts3000 wrote:Maybe I'm missing something... but what the hell is a "Freon-based" radio?

All APX8000 and APX6000BN radios use the "FREON" processor. All others use the "OMAP".

resqguy911 wrote:

sjxts3000 wrote:Maybe I'm missing something... but what the hell is a "Freon-based" radio?

All APX8000 and APX6000BN radios use the "FREON" processor. All others use the "OMAP".

My APX8000 says OMAP-L138 for the Processor Type

My 8000XE too. OMAP L-138. GARY

Thats the neat thing about google.... Try googleing Freon Processor... you get OMAP-L138.

OK, to take the topic back on track....
DMR in an APX radio.... hell yes, I'd love to see it. If there was an APX8000/8500 (or 9000/9500?) which was all band + DMR, I'd buy it.
If mother /\/\ kept it in the top-tier APX line, I can't see any cannibalization of the XPR line.

I can see putting DMR in the APX line. I do NOT see putting P25 in the XPR line. GARY

Probably the only thing you might see is mirror image lines of XPR chassis radios. It's already being done with one APX. Motorola is NEVER going to allow dual mode radios, it trashes their profit line.

resqguy911 wrote:

triptolemus wrote:That survey is fake as hell. Motorola is not doing market research on friggin' Survey Monkey.

Give me a break. Stop wasting people's time.

It most certainly is not.

Hahaha that jackass shows his true colors once again.

I completed the survey and there were definitely some "Motorola-esque" terms in there. I believe it to be 100% authentic and it's nice to see that Motorola is at least examining this one more time. If they truly believe in "interoperability", and want to push DMR on the commercial side, well, gotta get those P25 radios able to talk DMR, otherwise it's back to analog for everyone.

Kenwood is already doing it. Motorola needs to sit up and take notice to stay competitive.

d119 wrote:Hahaha that jackass shows his true colors once again.

Let it go, Chris. Jeez. I'm sorry I wronged you one time many years ago.

As for the survey, sorry that I was skeptical of an unsolicited survey monkey link. How completely stupid my true colors are.

If the link didn't come from motorolasolutions I just delete them.

com501 wrote:If the link didn't come from motorolasolutions I just delete them.

Only trusting people who work for the company that continues to disappoint you seems flawed.

I heard from a birdy that they are planning on implementing this, but the radio will only support DMR or P25, and to change modes you will need to reboot it. So no DMR/P25 existing side by side. This definitely smells like some BS Motorola would pull

escomm wrote:I heard from a birdy that they are planning on implementing this, but the radio will only support DMR or P25, and to change modes you will need to reboot it. So no DMR/P25 existing side by side. This definitely smells like some BS Motorola would pull

I think that's acceptable for the majority of the ham audience. As long as it can support VHF/UHF ham bands in both analog and DMR. There's not a lot of P25 ham repeaters out there. But ya, that's some crazy /\/\ BS they are pulling if they want you to reboot and choose one mode or the other, but not both.

I'm wondering if the 7000 will even be included in the DMR firmware. It should be by all means but it could easily become another "buy an 8000" selling point for the mothership to push.

W3AXL wrote:I'm wondering if the 7000 will even be included in the DMR firmware. It should be by all means but it could easily become another "buy an 8000" selling point for the mothership to push.

Well, they currently have one firmware file for all APX models. When they initially released the 8000's, there were an '8000-only' firmware file, but then they lumped it into one APX firmware file. So there's hope!

sjxts3000 wrote:

escomm wrote:I heard from a birdy that they are planning on implementing this, but the radio will only support DMR or P25, and to change modes you will need to reboot it. So no DMR/P25 existing side by side. This definitely smells like some BS Motorola would pull

I think that's acceptable for the majority of the ham audience. As long as it can support VHF/UHF ham bands in both analog and DMR. There's not a lot of P25 ham repeaters out there. But ya, that's some crazy /\/\ BS they are pulling if they want you to reboot and choose one mode or the other, but not both.

Yes, but acceptable to the actual audience it's intended for? I don't see it making sense. Big push with DMR in schools and so forth....... good lord can you imagine having to reboot so you can talk to dispatch, then reboot so you can talk to the principal? No way Jose!!

escomm wrote:

sjxts3000 wrote:

escomm wrote:I heard from a birdy that they are planning on implementing this, but the radio will only support DMR or P25, and to change modes you will need to reboot it. So no DMR/P25 existing side by side. This definitely smells like some BS Motorola would pull

I think that's acceptable for the majority of the ham audience. As long as it can support VHF/UHF ham bands in both analog and DMR. There's not a lot of P25 ham repeaters out there. But ya, that's some crazy /\/\ BS they are pulling if they want you to reboot and choose one mode or the other, but not both.

Yes, but acceptable to the actual audience it's intended for? I don't see it making sense. Big push with DMR in schools and so forth....... good lord can you imagine having to reboot so you can talk to dispatch, then reboot so you can talk to the principal? No way Jose!!

Ya, I'm not a fan of that reboot nonsense. I mean, what the heck? Does it run on Windows?

I have to imagine they're going to at least try and make it more elegant than that. Maybe in the first testing release it'll require a reboot, but if their plan for the final implementation is the same then that's a non-starter for most agencies I can think of.

escomm wrote:I heard from a birdy that they are planning on implementing this, but the radio will only support DMR or P25, and to change modes you will need to reboot it. So no DMR/P25 existing side by side. This definitely smells like some BS Motorola would pull

Ah, like Kenwood's approach in the NX-3000 series radios that have analog/DMR/NXDN but will only allow you to program the radio to have analog/DMR or analog/NXDN at any one time. OTOH, I understand that the NX-5000 series allows you to select digital modes from the radio and can support analog and two digital modes at the same time: analog/DMR/NXDN, analog/NXDN/P25, and analog/DMR/P25.

So if Kenwood can do it without rebooting why can't Motorola?

JPOPatents wrote:

escomm wrote:I heard from a birdy that they are planning on implementing this, but the radio will only support DMR or P25, and to change modes you will need to reboot it. So no DMR/P25 existing side by side. This definitely smells like some BS Motorola would pull

Ah, like Kenwood's approach in the NX-3000 series radios that have analog/DMR/NXDN but will only allow you to program the radio to have analog/DMR or analog/NXDN at any one time. OTOH, I understand that the NX-5000 series allows you to select digital modes from the radio and can support analog and two digital modes at the same time: analog/DMR/NXDN, analog/NXDN/P25, and analog/DMR/P25.

So if Kenwood can do it without rebooting why can't Motorola?

They can. They just won't.

JPOPatents wrote:

escomm wrote:I heard from a birdy that they are planning on implementing this, but the radio will only support DMR or P25, and to change modes you will need to reboot it. So no DMR/P25 existing side by side. This definitely smells like some BS Motorola would pull

Ah, like Kenwood's approach in the NX-3000 series radios that have analog/DMR/NXDN but will only allow you to program the radio to have analog/DMR or analog/NXDN at any one time. OTOH, I understand that the NX-5000 series allows you to select digital modes from the radio and can support analog and two digital modes at the same time: analog/DMR/NXDN, analog/NXDN/P25, and analog/DMR/P25.

So if Kenwood can do it without rebooting why can't Motorola?

Because making the end user turn the radio off then on again, will cause the on/off/volume knob to wear out faster thus increasing depot visits and replacement of parts = more $$$ in the pocket of Mother M.

I have a couple of agencies that are migrating from XPR radios to APX radios, and still want to keep their digital "secret squirrel" channel, plus they want to be able to talk to Public Works, who are on a MotoTRBO system. They're going to be on a P25, ADP encrypted channel on their current frequency for their "squirrel".

I've also floated the idea to our radio shop of putting our low-use channels together in a Cap Plus system to make more "channels" (talkgroups) available for those that need it, which if our LEOs need to talk to PW, they'll need DMR in their APX radios.

You have to look at this whole subject from a different prospective. First of all you have to be greedy. Second of all your head has to be swollen by the thought that your the biggest and meanest company out there that supplies radios to the world.

With that said, the market steers the thoughts of what the next product should be, what it does and how it works. Then the head swelling comes into play with just how high the cost of the radio can be pushed before the sales reaches the crest of the sales numbers. Volume over the long term is what supports a company today. Not just what the sales are for the first couple of months.

Today, Mother M has some serious competition with radio features and cost of the radios. Years back sales were good as there was not that many other vendors that were selling products in direct head to head comparisons of the features, output power, size, weight and if a portable, how long the battery would last during an 8 hour shift.

Today, all the advantages are gone except the perception of Mother M having the best and meanest radio out there. Take and make a spread sheet of the other vendor radios and stack the specs up side by side. I think that in just about all the columns, you will find them just about neck and neck. The only line that comes in different for the most part is cost. So that is where Motorola is higher. Lets. not forget features. The features come into play like water proof, drop proof from so many feet, modes of operation and so on. Here is where you may start to see the differences come into play. Especially the different modes of operation. Like analog, P25, NXDN and so on.

Don't get me wrong in just who I support. Over the years, just about all the radios I have had my hands on have been Motorola. I do have some Kenwood, EFJ, Midland and maybe a couple of others. But if you look in my vehicles you will see Motorola radios. I just haven't been introduced or spent the bucks on other flavors. But it's time that the top dogs at Motorola go to the doctors office and pick up some meds to clear their heads and get the fog off their eyes as to market demand. It is changing and the time has come for Motorola to open the shades in the board meeting room to see the green grass on the other side of the fence. The slick goose droppings on the grass outside the corporate office have just about killed it and turned it all brown. Even come spring time, the grass is no longer the lush green it use to be back in the days of the G brothers who had an open mind on how to run the company.

Call me old fashion, but customer demands are what steer equipment decisions today. With the high cost of operating a business, these business owners are looking at what equipment costs are. Even with the good reputation that Motorola has built up over the years, that only goes so far. We are now seeing a fight in the courts over fighting about patent infringements that are just making the legal teams rich and the rest of us paying for the cat fights. If this all keeps going the way it is, I see the number of radio vendors going down again like we saw in the 70's and 80's. Only this time there may be one of the larger ones that has been around since the begging of time joining that list. No company is immune to declining sales. It doesn't matter how big or how small the company is. If you can't be in the top 1/3 of the companies fighting to stay there, your going to be in trouble. The writing on the wall is starting to show up and the board members are being too stubborn to see it.

Time to start looking at why the grass is greener on the other side of that fence. Even the Federal Government has started to look at using a different vendor brand of radios for some agencies. With budget restrictions, there is only so much money to run the agency on. Radios are now a target of that budget. It doesn't matter how good of a reputation that company may have. Bottom line today is product functionality and cost.

Jim

A birdy has told me this is happening and /\/\ is making the sales push. No word on whether the modes will work side by side or require a reboot. I cannot fathom a required reboot is gonna happen, but I could not fathom a lot of the BS of the last 5 years happening either

escomm wrote:A birdy has told me this is happening and /\/\ is making the sales push. No word on whether the modes will work side by side or require a reboot. I cannot fathom a required reboot is gonna happen, but I could not fathom a lot of the BS of the last 5 years happening either

I heard something similar to this as well. Reboot = show stopper. Then again other designers have had the same issue - I think the early Kenwoods might have needed a reboot. MA/Comm / Harris requires a reboot to jump from OpenSky to ECP (Conventional/EDACS/P25 Trunking). Motorola wouldn't be the first to have this challenge. It is what happens when you have two different sides of the house writing code for two similar products.

Alex

If /\/\otorola does release a DMR mode on the APX line maybe it will do what they did on the XPR line for Wave OnCloud where they have the radio switch from "Radio Mode" to "WAVE Mode". Would not be as bad as a full reboot, but if it was just fully integrated into the main firmware that would be best. My hope is I can just carry 1 radio and not 4! LOL

Sorry, that dreamware is never going to happen. Motorola is committed to the public safety customer and will keep the Trbo line completely separate, at least in the NA market.

They might do this abroad, but unlikely. Tetra is the standard in EU and the APX line is far too expensive for more customers not supported by Government grants.

I wonder if this will be part of the new "APX Next" radio...

com501 wrote:Sorry, that dreamware is never going to happen. Motorola is committed to the public safety customer and will keep the Trbo line completely separate, at least in the NA market.

They might do this abroad, but unlikely. Tetra is the standard in EU and the APX line is far too expensive for more customers not supported by Government grants.