Batboard

My department recently got our hands on three Crowns, one is a 95, one is a 96, and one is a 97. They came with a few things left in them, but I want to install a tail light flasher unit. I have gotten several opinions... some say do not install them, because they screw up the brake system in Fords. Others say no problem, go for it..... Are there any 'expert' opinions out there? I am not really wanting screw up the cars, but I want to have the tail lights flash. Strobes are an option, but our budget is kind of tight, plus I have 2 galls flashers and one whelen flasher laying around.

Any suggestions?

A potential big problem with the 'back flash' is that it disables the shift-out-park interlock. There have been documented cases where a Public Saftey vehicle lunged into a crowd of people when the driver though they had their foot on the brake, but hit the gas instead. Several Public Saftey depts. removed the 'back flash' units after that publicity to avoid the liability. Some manufactures like Able2 (SHOW-ME products) even stopped making them. Knowing that, some still choose to use them. Ultimately your call. (Or your lawyers). Here are some links for more info.....

http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/safe32899.asp

http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/hise/safety-cr ... /0215.html

For those dept still wanting a rear flashing unit, they are installing hide-a-way strobes, and when now makes a hide-a-way halogen unit that's fairly inexpensive if they don't want the expense of strobes.

THe trend for safety and vehicle wiring issues it moving away from tail light flashers interfaced into the vehicle wiring. With negative ground switching and other goofy stuff in many new vehicles now its just simpler to go with strobes.

Face it, halogen is probably going to be dead in 5-10 years in the auto-truck industry other than possibly headlamps

Use part number ETFBSS-P from Sound-Off. It has built in backfeed diodes AND even if they fail, it can't backfeed into the brake circuit, since it would have to backfeed through a transistor, also.

I have yet to encounter any vehicle with ground-side switching of the rear lights. The main reason it's happening on headlights is that GSS makes the DRL system simpler/cheaper to design.

As for backflashers causing a car to come out of park....
Yes, I'm sure if somebody installed one of these unit incorrectly, it woould allow one to pull the shifter out of park.
If you have no knowledge of the electrical systems on a vehicle, maybe the wrong person is doing an installation.
Consult a service manual!

I remember seeing a service bulleting from Ford come into the PD awhile ago. Appears that most flashers reguardless of brand did this. I forgot exactly why, but I will try to dig up the bulleting from the matience guy here.

I know here they tried 3 diffenernt brands and they all did the same thing. Doesn't matter know as we install strobes in every nook and crevice of the car...

Okay, so I get the idea that it might not be the brightest idea to install the tail light flasher. However.... would using diodes prohibit the flasher from back feeding into the brake-lock system?

Tom

I knew there was a manufacturer that made one with diodes. If we have to install these in crown vics we use diodes for that purpose. It is not all Ford vehicles, I have one in mine. But it is a standard. Like Jim said, if you are not familiar with the vehicles wiring you may want to consider strobes or letting someone else do it.

I guess that I will have to try and get the dept. to spend a little money and get some strobes. This whole debate stemmed from what I have noticed on other Crowns. I came on about 2 years ago and our other crowns have tail light flash unit, Federal Signal (I think). So I was not sure if this was a rumor or not. [plus the fact that I mainly worked on caprices before] And I have seen other depts that have brand new Crowns with tail light flashers. I guess that I kind of want to put them in, so that all the cars look uniform. Plus the chief likes uniformity! But I suppose a little change now and then can not hurt! I might try the diodes and see what happens. I would assume that I would be able to tell right away if the interlock would fail and could immediatly remove the flash unit.

I think you'd be better off putting in the "Hideaway Halogen" kit. They are the same as hideaway strobes except they are halogen and flash using a regular flasher. Plus, a 50 watt halogen light is a lot brighter than the 6 watt incandecent or whatever the pathetic brake and reverse lights are.

No messing with stock wires. Brighter, Simple.

Just use the ETFBSS-P. I do several of these a week on Fords ranging from 1997 to 2003 and have not had one yet backfeed the PCM or shift interlock. Some cheaper flashers do not use diodes and/or they don't break the circuit- they just parallel feed it, which will backfeed. I've seen some Whelens (not sure about their newest ones though), Gall's el-cheapo brand and Sho-Me all do this. Federal and Sound-Off are proven and don't have this problem. I always use the Sound-Off, since I use their Q-switch flashers.

If you tie any flasher's output into the OEM brake wires PARALLEL without breaking the circuit, you will be in danger. You must totally break the two wires in the LR quarter panel and insert the flasher properly. I'm sure just about anyone on this forum can do this!

Every time I see somebody put strobes in the 98 and newer Vic's brakelights, they look weak. The parking lights overpower most strobes unless you hit the spirals with 30 watts each. If you're gonna use strobes, do the backup light housings.

Hey Jim, I'm not sure but I heard Whelen or Federal Signal (not sure which one) came out with a flasher to take care of this problem. I knew sound off made one but I think Whelen or Federal Signal did too.

As for the strobes, you're right. But them in the backup light housing. We do put them in the brake light housing too, but we dedicate a 90watt 4 outlet power supply to those 4 strobes and it does do ok.

Many of the weak strobes that I have been seeing, depts are using that Whelen kit that only has a 20 watt power supply, and it does look weak. Pretty bad actually. The 20 watt p/s was used as a cost effective way to get depts into the strobe market, but you would want to use at least a 60 for any good effect.

My dept we have 90 watts installed, and we are replacing them with 180 watt/8outlet power supplies as we cycle the cars. Big difference. CSP8180's are nice p/s. FWIW, we run front corners, rear reverse and rear brake lights. We also have a couple with the mirror beams.

Hopefully soon, our new expidition and crown vic with be in, as I want to seem them with almost all LED (including LED TIR6 mirror beams) and some strobe lighting.

Then again, we survived for how many years without a shift lock? Just set the parking brake!

LEDs.....what a joke. I hope they make these things better soon!

Everyone buys these Gall's 40 watt/4 channel power supplies and runs 4 spiral tubes. If you aren't hitting each spiral tube with at least 18-20 watts, it isn't even worth spending the money on strobes. I've been using the Sound-Off Gemini 110 watt unit with 4 tues and it kicks ass! I on occasion use a 90W Whelen (yes, I said Whelen) with 4 tubes because for the price I pay for it, you can't go wrong. The 90W/4 tube also works well.

As for these "hideaway halogen taillight inserts".....
Don't waste your money on these things. Buy strobes or buy a good taillight flasher.

A 470 ohm resistor to ground on the brakelight wire will tell the circuit that something is connected and will keep the brake/transmission interlock working.

I've heard reference to park-lock many times, but can't seem to find any information on it.

What exactly IS a park-lock, and how is it configured?

In my car, in order for me to be able to shift out of Park, I have to press the brake first. Is this a park-lock? If so, how would putting a back-flash in the car mess that up? You'd just have to make sure you don't move the shifter when the flasher is on - hardly a problem, because cars have only had this "feature" for the lat 6 or 7 years or so.


M

Hi,

Yes that is park-lock, I believe (but not a 100% sure) that some cars have a safety interlock in addition to requiring that the brake pedal is depressed that checks that the brake lights are operational and if there not won't allow you to shift into gear. That is the reason you install the resistor to trick the computer into thinking that the lights are connected and working properly.

Gary

"A 470 ohm resistor to ground on the brakelight wire will tell the circuit that something is connected and will keep the brake/transmission interlock working."

What??????


What car are YOU working on? This surely has nothing to do with anything built in the US.

The harness has relays near the fuel cutoff. These are connected to the wires just before they enter the plugs that preceed the brake lights inside the trunk, one for each side. Just connect the traffic backer to the wire between the light and the plug and make shure no current flows back to the relays. If the backer causes the relays to work then it will be a problem. The 2003 models no longer use these relays...

Take and devote a 4 outlet power supply to the tail lights and put two strobes in each tail light. they will be bright then. You could also use a 6 outlet and put 4 of the outlets in the tail lights and the other two in the backup lights, to keep the pattern.

The 98 and up backup lights kick some tail with strobes in them....

and LEDs are actually pretty cool when you mix them with some strobes....get some sho-me micro lites and put the flash unit on warp flash then put some strobes on warp flash all in the back of a crown vic and you've got yourself something quite nice.

I didn't read through the thread here but in case no one has metioned it another option is to install separate halogen bulbs for the tail light flasher in the brake light housing, thus never even connecting to the brake light harness. I know whelen made some lights like this that I have installed in the brake lights of my lumina right now.

Jason

Nobody mentioned it for a reason- they suck.

Mine work great. It just depends on where you place it. You need to get as close to the focal point of the reflector as possible. Just like if you don't get strobes close to the focal point they suck too.


Jason

If you put the CORRECT flasher into the OEM lamps, they will work fine- and are brighter too. They are also much easier to install.
True about the focal point, if you DO use any add-on lamp, place them correctly.

If you peel away the tape around the harness just before the connector in the trunk at each tail-lamp, you will find where the relays pick up the signal that voltage is present. If you wire any flasher system into the harness before this, the relays will activate with each flash of the brake light. The "traffic backer" that has pass through connections, will not activate the relays as it is in use, eliminating the problem, if its wired in between the light socket and the first connector just inside the trunk.
If your relays on the harness are activating along with the traffic backer, then you are wired into the harness to early, and could possibly pull the car into gear without the brake pedal being de-pressed.

Many departments that tried brake light cut-offs that were wired into the harness before these relays, found that they could not get out off park with the brakelight cutout activated.

Glen W Christen- just for kicks I put 12v accross a 470 ohm resister 1/4 watt and put it on a piece of paper. It was on a ceramic plate so the insuing fire was small and controlled. I wouldnt suggest that method.

Using the correct flasher works really well, too!


I can make a non-DRL positive side switched wigwag work on a 2002 Durango, but it too, is five times as much work and three times as many parts as using THE CORRECT PART FOR THE APPLICATION. Damn, it's something like $34 from Sound-Off to buy this thing.

Quote= "Using the correct flasher works really well, too!"

Im talking about the correct flasher. Doesnt matter if you install the wrong type as the problem will be there no matter where it is installed.

Putting the correct one in the harness to early will allow the shift without the brake pedal, because the sense wire is tapped into the harness about 18-24 inches from the tail lamp, on each side. One of Fords better idea's.

Sense wire at the rear? What kind of CV are you working on?
The park interlock B+ trigger is in the front of ALL 98 and newer Vics near the steering column. There is nothing in rear tail light wires. Nothing. The brake/turn leads go straight up to the turn signal switch and pass through two bulkhead connectors. No relays or splices anywhere. No sense leads anywhere.

Relays? Um... the only relay is in the underhood electrical center.

The only other thing in the rear is the CHMSL lamp wire, which runs forward to the jucntion near the steering column where the P.I. B+ trigger lead splice is.

If you put the flasher in the rear of the car where it's supposed to be, there won't be any problems.

I'm sorry to bring this post up from the past, but this problem only applies to 1998+ Crown Vics.

Your 95-97s will be fine with the traffic backers. In fact, so will 98+ vics, just a liability issue they wont sell them for Fords. I have a 95 with the FS-027 Traffic Backer, my friend has a 98 with a flasher and none of us have any problems.

Its not a 98+ issue.. I have had cars as far back as 1993 with issues. Its a flasher problem . If your flasher is not one with the built in diode protection it will cause the computer shift lock interface to malfuncton...

Use the correct flasher installed CORRECTLY and you won't have any issues. Use a Gall's flasher and...well...who knows.

I can tell you that Ford's interlock system is not mechanical, that is, when you step on the brake, the brake pedal itself does not disengage the interlock with the shift lever. The system itself is electronic, so, while your backflasher is operating you would be able to shift the vehicle from park to drive without putting your foot on the brake! Sooo, reguardless of "back feeding" or not, you should not install this option (back flasher).

Just my 2 cents!!

Ummm... I think you better learn a little bit about what you are talking about before you try to give "advice."

The Ford interlock IS ELECTRO-MECHANICAL. It is a solenoid under the steering column driven by the BOO (Ford's name for Brake On-Off) signal. When you press the brake, you are mechanically unlocking the park lock pawl in the steering column by applying current to this solenoid. There is nothing "electronic" about this system. There are no logics, no semiconductors or no computers in the park circuit.

As for backfeeding, again, you are incorrect. If you backfeed into BOO, it will unlock. If you do not allow backfeed into BOO, you will NOT have a shifter that unlocks.

If you use the proper flasher with isolation, it WILL NOT SHIFT. Obviously, you have not ever even looked at the OEM schematics or the system itself, let alone did a proper installation on one of these cars.

I don't understand why everyone wants to make rocket science out of installing a B.F. on a '98 up Vic. I have done hundreds of these and never had ONE unlock. I'm sure if you use on old single-relay flasher from a '91 Caprice, it WILL backfeed and cause problem. Use the correct unit and it works. You don't need to do anything special- just install as per manufacturer's instructions. I use the Sound-Off ETFBSS-P unit.

If anyone took advice of the last post, they just became less knowledgable.

Okay. I have an idea and would like to see what you all might think:

What if.... using an Able 2 multi Output flasher (or similar item)..... you took an Bosch 20A relay and put in in line so that the common out (pos. #30) would go to the tail light bulb. Then take the unactivated input (normally closed position # 87a.) and attach it to the lead that from the car that would normally go to the bulb. Then on the nomally open side, attach an output from the flasher. Do this for each tail light. Also attach a lead to both tail lights.

With me so far....

Okay so when unactivated, the relay would pass the brake lamp power normally. When the relay is activated from the console, the flasher would be activating the bulb. This would totally isolate any part of the vehicle from the flasher unit. Also you could put your grille/deck lights on the multi-output flasher and have all of your flashing lights at the same rate and no clicking noises!

I understand that this is most likely re-inventing the wheel, but I am looking for some input. I would assume that this could also work on other cars too. Not too sure about headlights, but I think that it would work well for tail lights.

Thanks!

Okay...how's this idea sound?

Order the sound-Off ETFBSS-P flasher and do it properly.

I could make the Vic rear lights flash with a 555 timer and other parts that I solder together from Radio Shack, but would I? No.

I can make them flash if were to "unpot" the epoxy in a used relayed wigwag, cut the jumper, re-pot the assembly, install a 6A barrel diode and install in the car, but would I? No.

I can make the Vic rear lights flash with 2 relays, a 537 "can" flasher and some wire and a diode, but would I ? No!

If you insist on doing this and a car comes out of park or burns up, YOU are the one that was the cheap ass and wanted to save $6.00. IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD $40.00 FOR A REAL FLASHER, DO NOT PUT LIGHTS IN YOUR WACKER-MOBILE!

Next time you need an oil change in your car, bring it to me. I'll do it for $5.00 including the filter. I'll proudly use Wesson cooking oil in your engine. It WILL work for a while, but not quite like it's supposed to.

Nex time you have sex, wrap yourself with black electrical tape instead of spending $3.00 for a package of good Trojan condoms. It's rubber, so it must work.

I have some old lacquer thinner in a can- I'll sell it to you for only $0.50 a gallon. You can use it for fuel and it's half the price of gasoline.

This sounds like the guys that buy two packs of cigarettes every day, but can't afford cable TV or buy their kids school supplies. They also can't afford to buy something for their wife, but they have $170.00 to drop on a new dash strobe.

I agree with jim, order the proper unit, and do it right the first time. Why reinvent the wheel?

Besides, filling out those insurance claims because you screwed up yours, or someone else's vehicle can be a PITA!! (Not that I have ever had to do this.....)

I did not mean to upset any one. I just was thinking about this while I was driving home one night and it seemed like it might work. So I thought I would share the idea. I can afford the $40 flasher. But I was looking to maybe have an alternative way of doing it. Besides, I have already put strobe lights in the tail lights. I was just thinking off the top of my head. won't let that happen again.

Nobody upset me!! It's just ridiculous that it takes 40 posts to figure out how to do Crown Vic backflashes when you can buy the proper flashers from both Sound-Off and Whelen.

Everyone's making this into rocket science and trying to reinvent the wheel. Others are providing misinformation about the cars having cable driven mechanical shift interlocks when they don't. Others yet are saying that you can't do it at all because of park interlock safety when this again isn't true.

Yes- you could do it the way you listed, but seriously, why?

Unless there's a vehicle which you can't get a flasher for, why built some contraption to do it? If this were a 98-03 fullsize GM truck where there's no headlight flasher available, this would be fine....but you can get one for this car. Don't think I'm pissed about this- it's just everyone's beating a dead horse (twice) when the question was answered in the fifth post.

the only reason I thought abuot this was I saw a cruiser with the tail lights and rear deck lights flashing at the same rate. So I was thinking of a way to make that work. I thought it looked cool. no harm, no foul.

That's actually something I do frequently.

On the Sound-Off SS flasher (and maybe another brand...I don't know) there is a 3rd channel output. This 3rd channel output will drive the coil of a Basch relay (with polarity diode across 85/86).
30 will go to the switchbox's DECK LIGHT switch.
87 and 87A go to the two rear deck lights.

If the DECK LT switch is on without the backflasher, the deck lights will not alternate since the backflasher isnt providing a drive signal to the relay.

Just put the rear deck lights on the backflash switch and you're good to go. Syncronization looks cool!

rock on..... i knew that there probably was an easier way to not re-invent the wheel!

Thanks for the tip

LED's are the greatest lights ever made. The entire city of Madison CV fleet is getting switched over. All of our new fire trucks/ambulances here in Mount Horeb are getting LED's. MUCH brighter than strobes or rotators.

Body mount LEDs suck- period. Unless you are within 10 degrees of their centerline, you can't even see them. I see many trucks with them and they're lame.

I don't understand what the allure is with the cheesey lights. Everyone keeps making excuses such as "they take less current" and "they last longer." Well.....if a 200 amp alternator worked with halogen lights 10 years ago, why do you need to conserve power all of a sudden when you now have 300+ amp alternators on a fire truck and a pair of 160 amp alternators on the Power Stroke?Um.....sorry. I don't go for the power saving excuse at all. There's plenty of power avaialable on new trucks to run other lights. As for lasting longer....nope. THEORETICALLY, LEDs don't go bad, BUT.....I see many LEDs with a row of 5 or 10 diodes in a row that are out. And these are on newer trucks. No excuse for using them. It's just a "me too" thing. I'm not saying LEDs are bad, but they are not good for 100% coverage. In fact, they're poor for that. LEDs do have their place for places such as brake, turn signal, marker lights and arrow stick.

Building a vehicle with all LED is just plain stupid. You need a combination of other lights for angular or peripheral coverage.

NFPA and KKK should pull certification on these POS lights until the manufacturers of body mount LEDs use real optics that scatter the light more than a few degrees.

Think about this: Swap the factory "3156(1156)" reverse light sockets for a pair of "3157(1157)" brake light sockets, then you have an extra set of filimants(sp?) that arent used by the car at all. hook your reverse 12+ to the "dim" side of the bulb and hook your flasher unit to the "bright" side of the bulb. TADA $10.00(junkyard) upgrade without worrying about safety issues with the stock wiring. I've done this on several different autos and it works great.

On the top of our new engine, we have two of the old "bubble gum machine" rotating lights, and on each front fender is a Mars Model 888.

The LED's are much better than the strobes on the twin to that truck, which also has the same mech. lights.