Batboard

I have an 800 Astro Saber and I want to get it functioning on an 800 system - as if its one of their own portables. Is this possible without actually cloning a radio on that system? Is the information available on the internet about the talkgroups on the system helpful? Please advise - thanks - Andy

Unless you have a legitmate reason to be on the system the local radio shop will probably not program it to the system. And if you are trying to do it yourself then you will need the system key for the system you are trying to program. With out the system key in the software you won't be able to edit any trunking info ex- control channels, talkgroup ID's etc. Hope this helps.

Basically, if you don't have the system key...which is usually very closely guarded to prevent people from doing what you would like to do, your not going to get it to work. Not saying that you will not be able to find a way, just that you are pretty much dead in the water. If you want to monitor, get a scanner, if you have a NEED to transmit, talk to the system manager.

If you are legit, there isn't a problem, if not, you can get into some DEEP hot water.

These guys are all telling you the truth. Listen to them.

Now, if you were really creative, there's probably a way you could get the radio on the system, but here's the biggest problem:

All Motorola trunked systems are designed without any provisions for a true 'receive only' radio. There is no known way to effectively and totally silence the radio, that is, keep it from transmitting ANYTHING,
short of rendering the transmitter circuit non-functional by removal of certain components.

A lot of people want to do what you want to, and a few have, but they're placing themselves at risk by doing so.

Elroy

So, essentially it's risky because they can trace an 800 radio? Because its constantly communicating back and forth with its network even though you're not transmitting? Thanks - Andy

Basically, your radio (9 out of 10 systems) NEEDS to communicate with the the trunked system. If your radio ID is NOT logged into the system, or if you get into the system, it (the controller) may send a command to your radio (radio inhibit) and shut it down. Basically your radio becomes a paperweight. All astros (that I am aware of) have this feature. There are only two ways around that, by the radio system, or though a special sqeuence in RSS. Just don't bother if its a publice safety radio system, since by default those features are enabled.

In the astro series, reguardless of band, they can trace the radios by ID. In the 800 systems, everytime the radio transmits, its ID is transmitted. No way around that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pj on 2001-09-19 20:45 ]</font>

Well...there is a way. But it is not perfect.

First, radio trace/monitor/inhibit can be turned off completely with the standard RSS. So you don't have to worry about THAT if you take the time to check EVERY place that shows up in the RSS. There are several. Astro fields have it, so do MDC fields, and there are others.

Second, in a SmartZone system, the radio has to communicate with the central controller because what makes a SmartZone system 'smart' is that the system directs traffic for any particular group ONLY to sites where radios are actually listening on that group. If no one in site #7 is monitoring TAC C, the system will not transmit the TAC C group out of site #7. In a SmartZone system, the radios tell the controller what group they're turned to and the controller directs traffic to the site they're logged in at.

But, for scanning, you don't set up your radio as SmartZone. Smartnet is sufficient.
Anything else is unnecessary. You can set the radio to PTT-ID in a Smartnet system, and if you don't hit the PTT it will never announce to the central controller.

You also want to assign BOTH positions of the two position A/B concentric switch to 'TX INHIBIT'. This won't allow the radio to actually transmit any voice signals but the PTT ID MAY still work. Pick a very high number for the radio's ID, and if you have MTrunk set up to see the ID's actually in use, so much the better. You do not EVER want to duplicate a 'live' ID!!! There can be consequences of that which go FAR beyond the occasional accidental transmission and into such nasty situations as endangering officer safety, interference in a police operation, and other stuff that can land you in boiling water.

The safest way known to monitor is to set up a number of conventional channels in the radio, each of which is slaved to a scan list that contains only TRUNKED entries, so when you change channels you're actually changing scan lists. The conventional channel can be unused, in fact that's probably best. Park the 'live' trunked info in a zone that you don't go to. And make sure that your active scanning zone(s) is completely filled with conventional channels at every position on
the channel selector.

That's about as safe as you can get it without modifying the transmitter.

Here's one that MIGHT work: (Not tested yet)
If your radio is an XTS-3000, set up four or more zones in the radio and then set up the ABC switch as a zone switch. You will NOT be able to get to zone 4 (keep ZONE out of the menu lists) but can select the first three zones. The 'hidden' trunked info is in zones 4 and beyond, while the first three zones are 'safe' conventional channels with trunked scan lists.

Oh...my...gawd....! I just realized that this can be used on an Astro Saber, too!

Remove ZONE from the menu lists. Park the
trunked info in zones 2 or beyond. Conventional channels with trunked scan in the first zone.

You can't get to the second zone and therefore can't make it transmit!

I'm reasonably certain that these stunts will work. Anyone who wants to try them is more than welcome to do so, and please report your findings here as soon as you have a verdict!

Elroy