Motorola WINDOWS software for Astro

VSP5151 · Post by **VSP5151** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:23 pm

The NEW Motorola windows software allows you to program UHF amateur channels in the Astro mobile directly. NICE!!!

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:12 pm

Since I don't have an Astro Spectra, I wasn't able to check into that. On the portable side of the package, the UHF band goes down only to 445 MHz which isn't enough for repeater operation, obviously.

So tell us, how far down does the CPS allow you to take the UHF frequencies to?

Elroy

RFdude · Post by **RFdude** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 4:42 pm

I fingerboned all the VHF amateur radio frequencies (there's about 80 repeater and simplex) for an XTS3000 portable. Now I find I can't use that codeplug for another XTS3000 with slightly different features, or a SPECTRA W7 mobile. I don't want to enter them all in again!!!! Is there a way to carry these over? Perhaps the windows version has "cut and paste". Any fruitful suggestions are appreciated.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 5:27 pm

No. It's pretty clear in the RSS manual that although XTS and Astro radios are similar, the codeplugs are not interchangeable.

I would definitely not recommend trying any
cutting and pasting to try to splice up a
codeplug. You might end up with an expensive paperweight.

Elroy

HOWARD · Post by **HOWARD** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 6:04 am

The Astro CPS does not support cutting and pasting, I already tried it. That's wierd they would allow the Astro mobile to go that far out of band and not allow the portable. Maybe in the next version!
Howard

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 8:04 am

Let me ask again: How far out of band does the mobile section of the program allow you to go? Below 450, that is.

Elroy

VSP5151 · Post by **VSP5151** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:25 pm

ELROY, sorry I took so long to reply. The windows software will allow 440.000 mhz to 491.000 mhz. The software has down and up arrows to step to the next channel and that is the limits. I didn't program anything in my radio lower than RX 443.25 so I don't know how well it will perform.

RFdude · Post by **RFdude** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 6:44 pm

Understood about the different codeplugs. But we are talking about conventional frequencies. While SmartZone, etc is tied to the radio's serial number, it would be nice.... actually, it would be VERY DARN OBVIOUS that some people would want to load the same frequency list in another radio, perhaps slightly different options (share list between a type 2 and type 3 XTS3000).

So the radio comes with 255 modes, but can you imagine paying a tech with RSS to type these in??? Then start the process over for another non-identical radio.
Sorry...Forgive me... I'm venting.

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:29 am

Hey guys, take a look at the CPS HELP under the topics "drag & drop". It supports dragging and dropping items (conventional personalities included) between codeplugs. You have to open a second copy of the application to do this.
Just to make sure I wasn't going to be lying to you, I tried a couple of experiments. The first was dragging a list of several conventional personalities from a UHF Astro Spectra codeplug to a UHF XTS3000 codeplug. The second was dragging a conventional personality from a UHF Astro Saber codedplug to a UHF XTS3000 codeplug. In both cases, the FLASHcodes of the two radios were different. Both these experiments worked fine and I was able to save the modified codeplugs (didn't program any radios with them, though). There is also a drag and drop report in the tools menu that lets you know if any fields weren't copied in the drag & drop operation. Hope this helps.

motsaber99 · Post by **motsaber99** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 4:25 pm

Hey TimQ is it true you can program out of band in the CPS software for Astro. I have a copy of the software coming from Motorola and hope that it works.
Thanks,
Mike

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:27 am

Yes, you can program out of band with the CPS, within limits.
For UHF Range 1 portables (4th letter of the model number is R) the limits are 403MHz to 477 MHz
For UHF Range 2 portables (4th letter of the model number is S) the limits are 445MHz to 521 MHz.
These limits were chosen as frequencies where we knew that there would be little degradation in performance. Performance to spec is still only guaranteed within the advertised limits of 403-470MHz and 450-520 MHz.

motsaber99 · Post by **motsaber99** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:59 pm

I have two astro spectra mobiles one V and one U. I want to take them to the ham band. Just wanted to make sure they will go. Thanks.

Mike

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 7:30 pm

Please note that the information on out-of-band programming given above applies to portables only (XTS3000 and Astro Saber). The bandsplits for Astro Spectras are different than for portables and so any out-of-band programming limitations will be different.

HOWARD · Post by **HOWARD** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:06 pm

Hey Tim you've been a BIG help in the past, Glad to see you on here. Have you looked at our On-going quest to get a AVA to work with a HHCH....any HHCH!
Howard

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:35 pm

Well, Tim, unfortunately limiting the UHF split (450-520) to 445.000 is virtually useless. That precludes ANY repeater operation in the 440 band! According to my
R2001B service monitor, the performance degradation at 442.000 on my Astro Sabers is negligible. Actually, there's no measurable degradation at all. Both radios break squelch at about 0.040 microvolts and are delivering an intelligible signal (assumed around 12dB SINAD but I don't have the right cable) at 0.100 microvolts or -127dBM, and nearly at full quieting by .300 microvolts. That's damned good sensitivity for a radio that's 8MHz out of range! And significantly better than spec, too, if I remember right. Transmit power is holding steady at 4 watts, too.
The readings are about the same anywhere in the standard band limits, too.

Actually, I've found that according to my monitor, which has been checked for accuracy against a recently calibrated monitor, all of my Astro Sabers (1 VHF, 2 UHF, 1 800) all SIGNIFICANTLY outperform the published specs.
They haven't been monkeyed with, either.

So please get in touch with whomever you can and see if you can get the UHF split opened up to the full 440.0000 so that no hacking is necessary to use our radios on the UHF ham band. We hack the RSS and CPS as needed, but it'd be better to just have it do what we need it to right out of the box. You'd win some friends that way, too.

Elroy

motsaber99 · Post by **motsaber99** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 7:43 am

Tim,
I have a UHF Astro Spectra that when arrived it had 445 programmed in it. I had thought it was a 438 - 470 but apperantly it isn't or there is a glich. I tried to program several channels and it keeps reverting back to 450. This isn't even a normal band split for mobiles I didn't think.
Mike

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 11:51 am

If it keeps defaulting to 450 MHz, then the CPS must think it's a Range 3 model (450-482 MHz). Sure doesn't make sense that it had 445 programmed into it, though. Is this a new radio right out of the factory?

motsaber99 · Post by **motsaber99** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 6:46 pm

It was a refurbed that I purchased from an individual. It had 4 channels programmed in the 445 range for test channels. When I went in to change them it kept reverting to 450. Although I am using dos 9.0 instead of CPS. I have ordered CPS and of course it was backordered till 10/17 but When i comes I will check it out. I have had 3 emails telling me that others have done it so I am hoping it works.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:12 pm

Trust me on this: Having used the DOS and CPS versions both, (latest versions), use the DOS version and hack the bandsplits like we always have. The DOS software is stable, while there are some really hairy bugs in the CPS.

Maybe a later version of the CPS will do better, but I stopped using this version and will use the DOS version until the CPS is fixed.

Elroy

Astro Spectra · Post by **Astro Spectra** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:39 pm

Hi Elroy,

Could you please post the CPS bugs you've found?

While Windows CPS might not be as stable as 9.01, the drag/drop alone makes it worth the drama for those managing a fleet of radios!

Our biggest VHF Astro CP has more than 110 modes....

Regards, John

motsaber99 · Post by **motsaber99** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:19 am

Well Elroy, I tried hacking the software. I have the COS 9.0 and it gives me a fatal error when I try to open the program so I reloaded the old ODB file and it works ok. Except for allowing me to load ham bands. AND lord knows I don't want to have to change to an amatuer radio. That would be bad. My VHF Astro only goes to 146 and nothing more. The UHF will only go down to 450 and nothing more.

HOWARD · Post by **HOWARD** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 7:52 pm

If you hacked it right it should allow you to enter the frequencies...but i haven't seen an Astro Spectra yet that goes out of band without going out of lock and getting a tone. The portables are easy the mobiles I think have hardware issues preventing it from happening. This is only a geuss and I've tried a few UHF and 1 VHF so far. Maybe someone who has successfully done it could post the details.
Howard

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 8:17 pm

If your VHF Astro Saber won't go below 146 MHz, it's busted. That WAS an Astro Saber, you said??

Known CPS bugs that I have found:

Starting with an original LAPD codeplug, I attempted to totally strip it down, disable everything, and start over. I was never able to correct some invalid fields (I forget which ones) that kept me from even saving my work.

I have also noted that the CPS won't list a channel number or name on any personality that is more than the 32nd one in a single zone.

A few other little goofs here and there, too, but I don't specifically remember what. I really should start taking notes.

It's also somewhat confusing when you're trying to figure out what option has to be enabled to allow you to enter data in certain fields.

Elroy

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 8:20 am

Elroy -
If you are judging the performance of the CPS based on how it acts with one of those old LAPD codeplugs that are getting traded on the net, you probably will think it is broken. The ones I have seen have been so hacked up by the Labtools that are out there that they have FLASHcodes that are impossible to generate in the factory and the information that controls feature availability is usually bad. I am not a bit surprised that conflicts arise that the CPS (even with you helping) cannot resolve.

If you have a factory-generated codeplug that exhibits the problems you spoke about, please email it to me and we'll get the problems fixed.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:20 am

I'm getting these 'issues' on codeplugs that came directly out of an authentic LAPD codeplug from a radio that was one of the 80 that was stolen en route to LA in late 1994.
If they were hacked, they were hacked before they came back into the country via Miami.

Please, tell me what you can about them, though.

Elroy

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 6:57 pm

As far as that group of radios themselves go, I'm sure I know less about them than you do. Technically, it is true that the rules that determine what is a legal FLASHcode, and those that govern feature and CPS field interaction have evolved somewhat since that time. It is quite likely that one of those original codeplugs may cause today's CPS to generate invalid field messages.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 6:54 pm

I've heard that technically, an Astro with old DSP and HOST revisions (Host R03.00.00 and DSP R04.02.09 as a specific example) are actually partly incompatible with the latest RSS releases. Can you verify that?

If that's the case, how can I go about gettin the firmware updated so the radios will function correctly with the CPS and RSS that's cost me so much money? I don't want or need any feature set changes, but I'd like to get the firmware modernized, that's all.

Elroy

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:56 pm

We don't have any KNOWN incompatibilities with specific versions of firmware. In testing the CPS original release, we didn't go back quite as far as your version, but almost. I think is much more likely to be a codeplug problem. What is the FLASHcode in this radio, anyway?

As far as upgrading your firmware, FLASHport is about your best option. However, you won't be able to get the absolute latest firmware unless you have upgraded your Controller board to a 1 Meg memory version. A radio of the vintage of yours most certainly shipped with 512K.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 6:41 pm

My UHF radios have the standard LA style flashcode in them, as they did when they were shipped. 840101-8F0000-4. These are unquestionably the ones that are supposed to be in these radios given their special engravings. These radios are legally mine and I have legal paperwork to verify it.

I'd be perfectly happy to just update the firmware to the latest 512K release, 5.60.00 and 6.05.09 or whatever it is that matches 5.6.

Elroy

TimQ · Post by **TimQ** » Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:15 pm

Elroy -
You will likely have a problem getting this radio upgraded. FLASHport won't work...your FLASHcode can't be handled by current RSS/CPS. Probably the only way would be to get your radio repaired in the RSC in Rockford. Your FLASHcode WILL raise a flag when the radio is serviced, since they won't be able to do anything with it. They will contact you and attempt to establish a "legal" FLASHcode which meets your needs but still allows them to work on the radio. I assume that a FLASHcode of 000001-000000-9 would work for you, since that is a basic no-frills Conventional radio. If you cut out all the non-functional features or ones you can't use since they require special hardware or infrastructure, that's basically what you have.
Regards,

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:13 pm

OK, you've lit my fuse.

If you think I'd actually consent to getting my radio downgraded in options in able to get the firmware updated to be usable with the latest RSS, you'd better think again. I wouldn't even CONSIDER taking a conventional only codeplug with no features. I'd have more features by getting an MTS-2000.

In my normal routine, on VHF,I use multikey hardware encryption, narrowbanded. DES-OFB, to be exact. I use Astro IMBE mode. I use conventional mode. I use the status and message features, and I use call ID display on MDC. I don't use trunking, I don't use OTAR, and I don't use OTACS. I imagine that
even a reasonable exchange of these features wouldn't be considered. I'd trade the LA code for what I can actually USE, as described.

You should be aware that from a legal standpoint, if I send in my radio for an upgrade, and anything is done to it except the upgrade, my lawyer would have something to say about the radio being tampered with without my approval. That is an illegal act.
It is my property. It has not been tampered with, and I retain the right of fair use to it and its contents. I will not give up those rights. Infringe upon my rights and answer to a judge.

It is PRECISELY the same thing, from a legal standpoint, as if I were to take my Porsche with an aftermarket performance chip in it (or a factory special production performance chip, for that matter) in to the dealer's shop for a repair, and they removed the performance chip or threatened to do so because they didn't sell it specifically to me with the car. You know what any judge would say.

You guys at Motorola need to wake the hell up and realize that you are NOT gods, and your attitude toward your customers, and THAT ALONE, is why the company is about to post another loss and lay off more thousands of people after already laying off well more than 20,000 in the past year. Your attitude sucks and needs to be majorly readjusted. some day someone WILL make that adjustment by way of a LARGE and stinky lawsuit.

You need to learn to be helpful, to be polite, and to respect the full legal property rights of me and every other customer. If I send in a radio for repair and you adjust the feature set, without my written approval, I'll see you in court, and my lawyer's a badass. He's accepted to practice before the United States Supreme Court and his win/loss ratio is scary. You'd have a better chance of winning a fistfight with a tree shredder.

It just isn't right when the company that you support kindly offers to hump your backside for you and stick their nose into your business.

I do NOT take kindly to having anyone or any company piss on my leg and tell me it's raining!

Forget it. I'll let those radios be and use them with older software forever.

VERY ticked off,

Elroy

Arnold Horshack · Post by **Arnold Horshack** » Fri Oct 12, 2001 8:51 pm

Elroy/TimQ
I have an extreamly hacked Astro Saber (512K) D91008 - 4F1E00 - 2 and use CPS with NO problems at all. Also my Zone/Ch list names go as far as 50 in a single zone..

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sat Oct 13, 2001 7:35 am

Oh, yeah, that reminds me...regarding the old LA flashcode: It's now obsolete. NOBODY currently uses it in a system. There is absolutely NO reason why Motorola should even have to THINK about denying me or anyone else a radio with that now obsolete flashcode in it. LA has gone to a much simpler flashcode, basically all you need to monitor is a CAI compliant radio and that's it. I think they've got ID display, too. That's all. So if even LA isn't using the old code anymore, why worry about radios that have it?

Everybody knows that the features that made the LA code 'restricted' were Modat combined with OTACS and OTACR. Which is particularly useless now. Modat is an outdated silly noise without the infrastructure to support it, and OTACS and OTACR are equally useless without supporting infrastructure as well.

What legal basis could Motorola POSSIBLY have to mess with my radio's feature set? I'll tell you: NONE. There is NO issue with this radio being able to seamlessly enter the system it was made for, because that system was unique and has changed to the point where this radio is useless in that system without a major upgrade.

Elroy

Salem The Cat · Post by **Salem The Cat** » Sun Oct 14, 2001 9:04 am

It is PRECISELY the same thing, from a legal standpoint, as if I were to take my Porsche with an aftermarket performance chip in it (or a factory special production performance chip, for that matter) in to the dealer's shop for a repair, and they removed the performance chip or threatened to do so because they didn't sell it specifically to me with the car. You know what any judge would say.

--------------------------------------------

This is not entirely accurate, it's comparing
apples & oranges. If that same vehicle had a
collection of stolen parts derived from other
vehicles stolen off it's lot. It would have
every right to contact law enforcement to
seize the vehicle for further disposition.

The "property" in question is not the actual
physical unit, but the intellectual property
embodied in the code resident in the chips.
The rights to that code have never been
surrendered.

All this other, pardon the expression, ":o
house lawyer talk" about "fair use", yadda,
yadda, yadda, is meaningless. The original
code is proprietary property licensed to a
specific user via a contractual stipulation.

If that code is in an unauthorized product,
it's STOLEN ! The only difference is the
concept of what's stolen (in this instance
it's code), in the classic sense it would be
a stereo. I return a stolen stereo to Sony &
they find out it's hot - they can keep it to
call law enforcement.

In this instance if Moto finds your radio
contains it's stolen property (that code),
it's within it's rights to reclaim it.

I suggest you find another lawyer !!

Here's a top notch firm, we have experience
with - they specialize in IP law, and other
tech issues. They will authenticate the way
the court looks at this.

http://www.shawpittman.com/

Why do you think Microsoft has US Marshalls,
US Customs, and local law enforcement going
out and seizing their software from people
who didn't pay for it ? It is THEIR property,
that was not paid for. The property is the
actual code - not the CD's it came on.

Attempting to assert, that your CD's were
seized without cause, would be laughable. In
the same way Moto can seize their code found
in your radio if need be. The fact that they
are merely sanitizing the code is a matter of
convenience for them (vs. prosecuting the
owner for theft, or for having stolen
property in their possession - the code).

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:53 pm

I wonder why "Tim Q", or whatever this guy's REAL name happens to be, does not reply to Elroy's last post, as I was quite into the thread when Tim failed to make a reply.

Sorta reminds me of a thread I started a while back in reference to an astro saber 2 new out of the box. I purchased it legally and have paperwork to prove that. Even though I sold the radio, I STILL kept the paperwork, just in case something came about that could/would/might hit me in the rear. ANd Tim Emailed me asking a bunch of questions, and when I replied and even left him a voicemail @ his # that he provided, he NEVER called me back. I think his statement was somewhere along the lines of I can help you if you can help me with a few things. Now, I dont know about you, But me....I dont think that there's a needle in ANY haystack that says that I can seriously help some Motorola guy with anything...Well...But anyway, I got quite pissed off since this guy took the time to send me the message to contact him, etc.. AND...when I did, byleaving him a voice mail, via internet telephone line, (pain going through 4 other machines in Europe) and he never replied.

I think I may have a couple dozen friends call him till their cell batteries die.

Sorry, but I was quite disturbed after seeing his posts and then stop replying, espescially to Elroy, as I think Elroy picks up where the Depot tells you that they need to take another call and hangs up on you.

oh, Ya know what, I now recall what made Tim Soo interested in me, It was the mention that a friend of mine there had told me that the only way to fix an certain issue was to use lab or send it back to them and I did not want to wait, so he told me what to do with the lab software, IF I WAS TO EVER GET A COPY. Since that is pirate software, I would never attempt such a thing, but the fact remains that once I mentioned that someone in the Depot helped or RATHER offered to help me with lab, If I ever came across it, he got upset.

Sorry to take up bandwith here.