Batboard

hey guys and gals,

Gotta an interesting question as I was working the other night.

Is it possbile to do a Voice over IP rebroadcast and then transmit over the net to another repeater. What i am looking at is i have two security departments. One has a full-on dispatch center and the other does not. The only problem is LOS to the other sight from the dispatch center is non-existant and the possbility of getting another repeater in between to make a link is not going to happen for $$ reasons.

here is what i would like to do.

Site one (with dispatch) to be able to recieve and transmitt to the Site two that doesn't have a dispatch. I have DSL at one end and T-1 at the other.

let me know
John

John,

That should be no problem. I am playing with a "VOIP" system on amateur radio known as Echolink in which we have a repeater located on a mountain that is "linked" in to the Internet via a small link radio in town that is connected to the computer which is on a high speed connection 24 hours. We actually use the Echolink system to keep three repeaters tied together 24 hours a day. And, they are in Ohio, Montana, and New Mexico. It works very well, audio is great, and long as everyone is connected to something better than dial-up speeds, it is fast with no, or very few packet losses. The echolink system has about 2000 users and repeaters all over the world, I am sure a same city would be no problem. You cannot use Echolink for commercial purposes but there are some commercially available VOIP software and hardware sources out there to do what you want.

A nice advantage to the way the echolink system works is that as I travel all over the world, I can connect back into our system via Internet from anywhere and talk using the computers mic and speakers.

What am i looking for as far as equipment and pricing.

This will save my siutes some money by consolidating some man hours and other uses. I.e. site 2 (without dispatch) needs EMS or police help and can't get to use the cell phone or the office with the cell is involved in the incident.

It would also help for being able to consolidate some management personnel to be able to talk to site 2 without leaving site 1.

Would i need a seperate repeater / channel or can i use existing (gr1225) systems.

thanks
john

I have never messed with any of the commercial stuff so the answer is somewhat speculation based on the Technology that would seem to be needed.

Depending on coverage needed at the other location, you could get away with a Maxtrac Mobile on simplex hooked up to the sound card of a computer connected to your Intranet or to the Internet. You would need a full time connection at both ends. All the dispatch center would need is another computer with Mic and Speakers also connected to the net full time. Not knowing how the commercial software works, you may need some sort of Interface box between computer(s) and the radio.

Based on your system you could also just tie the dispatch radio at one end to the one at the other and when somebody talks on one it comes out the other and vice versa.

I would suggest doing a search on VOIp on the net and see what companies are listed and talk to them about needs. Any radio with easy audio ins and outs will work fine, repeater or simplex.

John (GAT A2 SKI) check your PM box...I can help you do what you want.
Steve

GAT A2 SKI, we are currently working with DVSI involving the connection of 2 Quantar repeaters (one in Seattle and one in Chicago) via VoIP. We are using the DVSI Net2000 product, by connecting them through a DIU3000 on each end. I go into more detail on this lash-up under "ASTRO Radio Equipment," and then under the postings "Double Vocoding Revisited."

In order to sound really good and not have latency issues, you should use a DSL or cable connection through routers set-up with VPN Tunneling. The Ham radio stuff like IRLP and/or Yaesu's WIRES approaches work OK, but are not adequate (in my opinion), don't sound good enough, and have pretty bad latency problems for any sort of commercial/professional sort of operations.

Larry

Yaesus system as well as IRLP uses a reflector set of servers and other hardware within the system. Echolink uses point to point connections, and their servers are simply a list server to show who is on. The software in the computers make direct connections. In our system of T1 server and High Speed at each link radio, we are 100% satisfied, audio is "professional quality", and delay is virtually non existent. Of course, much is dependent on your abilities and technology, working in both worlds, I have seen terrible in both arenas, "professional" and Amateur.

Tom

Which Echolink interfaces are you using to get good results? We are just starting to get several of our repeaters tied together and would like to start off with something good.

Big BOB

Hi Bob,

We are not using any single interface. Our Albuquerque repeater (or at least the Maxtrac link radio to it) is using a home made interface through the sound card in the computer and is working fine.

Our Mac Pass repeater in Montana (SM 50 link radio to it) is using the WB2REM interface box at the computer.

The Ohio repeater is using another one but not sure of the maker.

We operate a Server using the Bridge Software in Atlanta (WB5EGI-L). It is listed as a link but in fact is a "conference server" and uses a software known as "The Bridge" and is on a T1 line. The bridge software is slick in that it is capable of automatically reconnecting to any node we program it for. What this does is if one of the repeaters computers loses the internet for any un-intentional reason, the server will continue to try and reconnect to it. This keeps the links all connected pretty much continuosly. If we use a disconnect code at any of the sites, then the server knows we wanted to disconnect and does not try to reconnect.

I like the REM box we are using, pretty easy connections. Audio adjustments are part of the software but you can also build your own and maybe get a little better "fine adjustments" on it.

If you have a chance, connect to WB5EGI-L and give me a call. You should see the WR7HLN and WB5IUZ repeaters connected to it as well.

EchoLink Is A Super Program And Works Very
Well."But It Is Ham"

IRLP Is Also Ham But The Owner Of IRLP
Can Set you Up For A Commercial Package.

http://www.irlp.net then eMail Mr. Cameron
For Your Details That You Want.

Try Vega/telex IP-223 Voip product you can hook 2 sites over a LAN/ WAN ect and do what yur decribing.

here is the web site for further info:

http://www.vega-signaling.com/

click on the IP-223 product item


coments invited
73 for now
bob ,n0euh

GAT A2 SKI wrote:hey guys and gals,

Gotta an interesting question as I was working the other night.

Is it possbile to do a Voice over IP rebroadcast and then transmit over the net to another repeater. What i am looking at is i have two security departments. One has a full-on dispatch center and the other does not. The only problem is LOS to the other sight from the dispatch center is non-existant and the possbility of getting another repeater in between to make a link is not going to happen for $$ reasons.

here is what i would like to do.

Site one (with dispatch) to be able to recieve and transmitt to the Site two that doesn't have a dispatch. I have DSL at one end and T-1 at the other.

let me know
John

Bob,

How much does that stuff cost ?

Jay

The problem with the Vega VoIP stuff is twofold: First, it is designed to work with proprietary WAN/LANs, as opposed to working over the public Internet (in most cases/applications); and Second, it only supports VPN Pt to Pt tunneling via expensive Cisco routers, due to proprietary headers. It will not work with CompUSA $50 Linksys routers like the DVSI box supports. Pros and cons to everything I guess. The Vega stuff is way cool for supporting the EF Johnson Model 2600 P25 repeater because you can go digital from the Vega console to/from the EFJ P25 repeater in an all digital mode (but it is very proprietary and will NOT work with a Quantar).

To each his own, I guess..

Larry

Does this DVSI Net-2000 unit support full duplex connections? In other words, could it be used to replace a full-duplex radio connection with a full-duplex IP connection? And how could it be used with regular ISP's? How would the Net-2000's find each other on a dynamic IP system (non-static IP's)? And most importantly, what do these Net-2000 units COST?

I looked at DVSI's webpage, and they're good looking units. Too bad they didn't build them into a 1U rackmount chassis though. The product brochure didn't answer any of my questions. Doesn't look like the unit can generate COS for interfacing to a repeater controller either.

Yes, the DVSI IMBE VoIP unit includes FULL DUPLEX capability. An Yes, they do work over the public Internet , end-to-end, with $50 Linksys routers at either end. You can actually plug a telephone handset in at either end, and carry on a full duplex voice conversation that sounds just as good a regular long distance voice call. I believe they do have a rack mount configuration, but it may not be shown on their web site.

Larry

So what do they cost? And can they provide COS signalling for a repeater controller, or is it strictly VOX? This thing sounds perfect for a project I'm working on.

bump... Nobody answered my questions!!

Why not have the companies switch to NexTel...wouldn't matter where dispatch is located.

*sits back and watches the flames ensue.

hehe

-Mike