Batboard

I'm looking to interface an external controller to my MSF5000 with analog controller. I've turned up info on the digital controllers but not this one (like KCbooboo's). Should I be looking for a Wildcard mod or should I scap this controller and seek out a digital one (I hear I can do this)?

Thanks!


-Bill

No the command boards do not interchange.

What "external controller" are you wanting to add?

We did add Zetron M38A's on MSF5000's with an interface board developed in conjunction with Zetron. It enables the external device to 'speek' on the MSF5k MUX buss. I have the details in my archives. I also have some info on wiring into J800 and a couple of points on the command board, but you loose the ecxelent audio processing inherent in the MSF5k.

Will, sent you a pm....Thanks, Rob

I'm looking to use a generic ham controller. Haven't picked one out yet. As for the audio quality, would that follow the weakest link theory? Would choosing a controller with a good audio path still derogate the sound? I thought that I read in a post that:

The modules within the control chassis are NOT interchangeable between the analog version, and digital version.

BUT..

The RF parts, PA, and Power supplies are.

Then again, I could have read into this wrong. that quote came from the following post:

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=msf5000

The info on the J800 would be quite helpful!!

Thank you for your time and help!!

- Bill

"...The info on the J800 would be quite helpful!! ..."
____________________________________________

Asking this question implies that you don't have a manual.

Get a manual.

They show up on ebay from time to time, there is one there now, item #: 3096352905

As far as the digital versus analog control boards. The digital control tray can replace the analog control tray. Motorola offfered an upgrade kit at one time that did just that. However, you really don't need to do that unless you wan't to reprogram the station regularly.

As far as interfacing an external controller, I assume that you want to do that for fancy control or voice ID's. Otherwise - remember - Motorola designed it as a repeater - it contains it's own controller. Just have a PROM made with your frequencies and your call sign in the ID and you are good to go.

There are at least a couple of Batlabbers [Andy Brinkley and Doug Eaton] that can make the PROM for you.

The following information copied from previous Batboard topics will tell you about replacing the control tray and interfacing to the one you have:

_____________________________________________________________

I have a working UHF MSF5000 CLB repeater and wish to install and use a known working CXB (digital) control tray (SSCB & TTRC). The CXB tray is set up for the same UHF range 2 repeater configuration. Question is will it work as a straight swap or is there more involved?

Any help greatly appreciated.....

Bryon K0BSJ


xmo Moderator Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:30 pm

There is more involved.

Actually, it's not terribly complicated. The CLB Station Control Module supplies 5V through the radio interface connector J801 on pin 9. The station interconnect board uses this to source 5V to the Rx synthesizer and power control circuits on the Uniboard.

The CXB stations use J801 pin 9 as RX2 Strobe. Hence if you put the CXB control tray on a CLB RF tray, you will have a non functional station.

Motorola did sell a conversion kit to update the CLB to CXB. It included a new interconnect board.

Your options are:

1. Find a CXB interconnect board to swap out the one on the CLB RF tray.

2. Put your own 5V regulator circuit on the existing interconnect board.

3. Modify the CXB control tray to replace RX2 Strobe on pin 9 with 5V.

Your best bet is to have the service manuals for both the CLB and CXB.

______________________________________________________________

If you have a CLB type station the best way to interface to an
external device is through what Motorola refers to as an 'RA'
interface. This gives you hardware COR & PTT plus 600 ohm audio each
way. The board for the MSF is still available from Motorola parts,
but costs in the $300 range.

Alternatively, you can connect directly to the station control board.
Here are some connection points to get you started:

Common - Logic Ground
RX-1 USQ indicate - TP-7 (Goes Low)
TX Audio High - TP-8
PTT - TP-9
Rx Audio High - U832 Pin-15
(or) - U835 Pin-1
RX-1 Audio Control - U829 Pin 15 (Goes High)

The station status that is reflected by RX-1 Audio Control is
determined by what the personality PROM has programmed for receiver
audio qualifiers. This would potentially give you a different status
point than the USQ indicate.

There is no true PL indicate available on the station control board
since it is determined by the MPU, however it is available on the MUX-
BUS as R1 PL DT at data bit 2 of address 3, which you can see with
the DMP. You could easily strap a wildcard module to decode this
status bit - or wire up a simple one bit output circuit on a perf
board.

Thanx XMO,

I have the users manual with J800 listed but this is all now to me. I've worked on GE and Hamtronics but never comercial MOT! I also have been watching that auction for a few days. The reason I neen an offboard controller, I would like to interface it with my IRLP node and at some point link it with a 6 meter system I'll be putting up.

Thanx again for the help!!

-Bill

I interfaced a CAT-200 controller to an MSF5000 digital (C64RLB7106B) station using primarily the MRTI connector. I believe that's J800. I did a lot of analysis on the signals available plus some audio level measurements. There's a PDF file you can download in the MSF5000-specific section of the Batlabs site, way at the end. This may give you more information on what's available on that connector. This was my experience on this specific unit. Your mileage may vary.

One little "gotcha". My connector diagram shows 20-pins for J800. The board layout shows it as a 14-pin connector. The schematic has only 14 pins documented. My board had a 14-pin connector. I don't know if the analog (i.e. CLB) units used a 20-pin connector, or if older revision digital boards used it. The inconsistency and incompleteness of the currently available MSF5000 documentation makes life a lot more difficult.

I found that the built-in controller lacked some of the refinements that are present in external repeater controllers. While Motorola did build it as a repeater, the ID requirements for amateur are just a bit different from what they are in the commercial applications. Also, since I wanted to have some form of control, even just touch-tones on the input frequency, I needed something to decode the tones and do some simple functions. The bare MSF5000 controller has nothing within it to deal with rudimentary control. So rather than just add a touch-tone decoder and some means of controller memory, I went with an external controller. This also gave me the ability to utilize an external audio delay board (CAT DL-1000) which eliminates most of the squelch tail and all of the touch-tones from being rebroadcast. After carefully playing with the settings in the MSF5000 (thank god for RSS) I came up with a reasonable combination of internal and external controller functionality.

Bob M.

Thank You KC for your input. You hold the same view as I. Now the catch, My board has 40 pins for J800. I do have a the pin-out specs from the manual that I can email to someone for review. Like I said before, I'm wet behind the ears when it comes to this motorola stuff! Maybe I should have went Digital.....

-Bill

I think I confused both of us.

J800 is the connector on top of the controller, with the little trap door over it, where you can plug a metering panel in.

J801 must be the MRTI connector, 20 or 14 pins, which is what I used to interface my controller.

Sorry for the confusion in my previous post. I think I really was referring to J801 in my mind but was typing J800 in the message, so please translate appropriately.

J800 has some useful stuff on it, but I don't think all the signals are present for use with an external controller. That's why I went with the MRTI connector (whatever it's labelled) as it seemed to be almost ready for a phone patch or other external device that needed audio in, audio out, some kind of COR signal, and a PTT signal. It was also beneficial to experiment with a MSF5000 that used RSS for programming instead of having to burn PROMs and wait for them to come in the mail.

I hope you didn't get too confused. This is what happens when I reply to messages too early in the morning !

Bob M.

That clears up a few things but then opens the door for the next storm.... I have 3 connectors on my analog board, J800 (on the top of the board that would have a door if I had the case for it), J801 which is a 26 pin connector that I plug the RF deck into and, J804 another 26 pin connector that I have no freak'n idea what its for - . I think it was a daisychain plug for the other cards that fit into the left hand side of the case (if I had one).

I have a feeling we're getting closer!!!

Now I'm dreading having to burn a prom 35 or so times

Well, my only experience has been with a digital-capable model that uses RSS for programming. I think the analog board is completely different. There was a manual for one on sale on ebay as of this weekend - I contemplated buying it so I'd know what the circuitry is, but haven't checked ebay today. All of my manuals, fortunately or not, are for the digital versions.

I think I've reached the limit of being able to help you with the various connections on your unit. If, however, you find a connector has the various signals necessary for interfacing an external controller, then perhaps I can be of some assistance.

Bob M.

Well hopefully I wont end up in a bidding war at the end of the auction. I want to thank everyone who helped me thus far. For a first time batlabs user, I sure felt helped AND welcomed!

-Bill
-N2WNS

J804 is the remote control interface. The station control tray contains the station control board and, optionally, one of three remote control interface boards. They are the DC remote control board, the tone remote control board or the E&M [site] interface board.

Here is another ebay auction for part of a CLB station. If you look at the auction and the pictures, you will see that this unit has been interfaced to an aftermarket PL decoder, and to an Scom 7K controller. The Scom is a very nice unit, especially with that new DVR that is available for it.

You can also see that the control tray contains an optional tone remote control board.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3816222516