Update: 11-24-2004
For eveyone who had been following this post, here is the latest twist and turn in this fine system......All of the mobile radios have to be replaced. It seems that they knew of a possible problem before they installed them, but went ahead and installed them anyway. Supposedly there was a TSB on the problem. What we have been told is there is a firmware issue with the mobiles that when you power a radio up, it will begin transmitting and stay keyed until you turn it off. So currently they are in the process of swapping out 800 XTL5000 Mobiles..........
Hi All,
Our county just installed new XTL5000s in all of our fire apparatus. Some are dash mount, some are remote mount, some are dual head. All of our county fire departments got W5 heads in the trucks. The problem is the dual head radios have a head in the cab and another on the pump panel, some of which will be exposed to the elements.
We have been told by the Motorola shop doing the installs that these control heads are not weatherproof.
My question is:
What about a motorcycle Astro Spectra A5 head???
are they weatherproof?
are they compatable with the XTL5000?
just a thought..... I would think they are weatherproof if they are made for a motorcycle.
I dont know much about the Astro Spectras or the Motorcycle radios..... I am just brainstorming
Thanks in advance.
Wes
XTL5000 Control Head Question (New Interesting Info)
Moderator: Queue Moderator
XTL5000 Control Head Question (New Interesting Info)
Last edited by Wes on Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Wes Hutchens
911 Telecommunicator/2-Way Sales & Service
911 Telecommunicator/2-Way Sales & Service
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
Wes, I'm not sure if you are just jerking our collective chains, or what...
If your predicament, as you described it, is really true, this is an unbelievable circumstance. Since you mentioned XTL5000 radios and a County wide purchase from Motorola, I assume that you are a large FD (I don't think a small volunteer FD could afford radios that cost $5,000+ a piece). Are you seriously saying that a County ordered extremely high tier (read that costly) radios for multiple big FD’s, and then installed the secondary control heads outside of the truck cabs? And, when the Tecs did the installs, you then just found out that the secondary heads are not waterproof?
I assume that your Motorola sales team knew that the secondary control heads were to be mounted in the outdoor elements outside of the apparatus, and they didn't advise your purchasing guru of the issue? To top it off, you are going to an internet board to find solutions involving Rube Goldberg approaches, such as speculating about using a motorcycle head designed for another radio, etc. to support a brand new Motorola system? I'm guessing your system entails hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe millions of $'s). Have you thought about asking Motorola to resolve this, on their nickel? Wouldn’t you think that when you have paid this kind of money, it would be up to Motorola to determine what head is appropriate for use in the elements?
No offense, Wes, but I can't believe this is at all serious. If it is, you have my sincere apologies, in advance. If your situation is real, it is so bizarre that I would hope you could let us know how this happened (there’s got to be some information that we are somehow missing, perhaps that you left out in the interest of brevity).
Why aren’t your County lawyers sorting this ridiculous mess out as a contractual misunderstanding/mistake, as opposed to an "Ah Hah" that just got surfaced by the shop tecs?
As Dr. Henry Lee would say, “Sumsing wong here, sumsing veeeeeeeeeer-he wong!” (Unless this is an early April Fools joke?!)
Larry
If your predicament, as you described it, is really true, this is an unbelievable circumstance. Since you mentioned XTL5000 radios and a County wide purchase from Motorola, I assume that you are a large FD (I don't think a small volunteer FD could afford radios that cost $5,000+ a piece). Are you seriously saying that a County ordered extremely high tier (read that costly) radios for multiple big FD’s, and then installed the secondary control heads outside of the truck cabs? And, when the Tecs did the installs, you then just found out that the secondary heads are not waterproof?
I assume that your Motorola sales team knew that the secondary control heads were to be mounted in the outdoor elements outside of the apparatus, and they didn't advise your purchasing guru of the issue? To top it off, you are going to an internet board to find solutions involving Rube Goldberg approaches, such as speculating about using a motorcycle head designed for another radio, etc. to support a brand new Motorola system? I'm guessing your system entails hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe millions of $'s). Have you thought about asking Motorola to resolve this, on their nickel? Wouldn’t you think that when you have paid this kind of money, it would be up to Motorola to determine what head is appropriate for use in the elements?
No offense, Wes, but I can't believe this is at all serious. If it is, you have my sincere apologies, in advance. If your situation is real, it is so bizarre that I would hope you could let us know how this happened (there’s got to be some information that we are somehow missing, perhaps that you left out in the interest of brevity).
Why aren’t your County lawyers sorting this ridiculous mess out as a contractual misunderstanding/mistake, as opposed to an "Ah Hah" that just got surfaced by the shop tecs?
As Dr. Henry Lee would say, “Sumsing wong here, sumsing veeeeeeeeeer-he wong!” (Unless this is an early April Fools joke?!)
Larry
I was thinking the exact same thing when I read this post. That and the poster is affiliated with a radio service shop.
Yes, something vewy wwrong here.
To answer the question the control heads are not waterproof. A solution if you do not get anywhere with you Motorola sales rep. (hopefully your county has some financial leverage in getting the problem rectified) would be to use waterproof radio enclosure boxes similar to what you use on boats. I have seen several installations on engines with control heads mounted in these boxes.
Yes, something vewy wwrong here.
To answer the question the control heads are not waterproof. A solution if you do not get anywhere with you Motorola sales rep. (hopefully your county has some financial leverage in getting the problem rectified) would be to use waterproof radio enclosure boxes similar to what you use on boats. I have seen several installations on engines with control heads mounted in these boxes.
First of all I would like to thank you both for your replies and your opinions and input.
This is a very real and true situation.
The system is a $24 million system. It is a joint venture between Winston-Salem and Fosyth County NC. There are 22 County Fire Departments, 2 City/County Rescue Squads, City/County EMS, City Police Department, County Sheriff's Office, 17 City Fire Stations and other misc City/County government agencies on this system. It is Astro 25 Digital. I was told by a /\/\ repersenative that there were 800 mobile radios to install, I have no idea how many portables are out there. BTW, they are XTS2500s and XTS5000s. The City and County absorbed all of the costs for end user radio equipment. No department had to purchase their own equipment, unless they wanted more radios that what the county issued them.
The issue I am addressing is involving the county fire departments. I cant speak for anyone elses situation. I dont think the city fire departments got dual head radios. I am really unsure on that.
The local /\/\ shop came around to each FD to do the mobile installs and upon arrival broke the news to each FD that "Well, no these control heads are not weatherproof." For some departments this was not an issue, they were able to mount the heads inside compartments, etc. For those who had top mount pump panels and no compartments to mount in, they were just screwed. At my station, we told them to box all the extra heads up and after we figured out what to do, they could come back and complete the install.
In the planning stages the county sent a questionaire sheet to each FD to ask the chief what style mobile radios he needed for his apparatus. All they wanted to know was:
dash mount?
remote mount?
dual head?
No one came to any FD (as far as I know) and looked at any trucks to see exactly what was needed.
So with all that said, As of right now, we are stuck with what we have.
I am trying to see what is avaliable to remedy the problem, that is why I came to the board to see what other fixes may be out there that I dont know about.
Also, I AM a 2-way technician for a KENWOOD shop and have been in the business for 10+ years, so I am not completely ignorant to radios and the like, I am just new to the digital trunking world.
At my department we respond in 2 counties and our home county is on VHF conventional. We dont have these issues with our Kenwood 90 series mobiles. The rear heads are mounted on the outside of the trucks and hold up to the elements with ease because they are designed to be weather resistant. Unlike the Motorola which costs 3 times more......WTF???
I could go on and on and on.........
Wes
This is a very real and true situation.
The system is a $24 million system. It is a joint venture between Winston-Salem and Fosyth County NC. There are 22 County Fire Departments, 2 City/County Rescue Squads, City/County EMS, City Police Department, County Sheriff's Office, 17 City Fire Stations and other misc City/County government agencies on this system. It is Astro 25 Digital. I was told by a /\/\ repersenative that there were 800 mobile radios to install, I have no idea how many portables are out there. BTW, they are XTS2500s and XTS5000s. The City and County absorbed all of the costs for end user radio equipment. No department had to purchase their own equipment, unless they wanted more radios that what the county issued them.
The issue I am addressing is involving the county fire departments. I cant speak for anyone elses situation. I dont think the city fire departments got dual head radios. I am really unsure on that.
The local /\/\ shop came around to each FD to do the mobile installs and upon arrival broke the news to each FD that "Well, no these control heads are not weatherproof." For some departments this was not an issue, they were able to mount the heads inside compartments, etc. For those who had top mount pump panels and no compartments to mount in, they were just screwed. At my station, we told them to box all the extra heads up and after we figured out what to do, they could come back and complete the install.
In the planning stages the county sent a questionaire sheet to each FD to ask the chief what style mobile radios he needed for his apparatus. All they wanted to know was:
dash mount?
remote mount?
dual head?
No one came to any FD (as far as I know) and looked at any trucks to see exactly what was needed.
So with all that said, As of right now, we are stuck with what we have.
I am trying to see what is avaliable to remedy the problem, that is why I came to the board to see what other fixes may be out there that I dont know about.
Also, I AM a 2-way technician for a KENWOOD shop and have been in the business for 10+ years, so I am not completely ignorant to radios and the like, I am just new to the digital trunking world.
At my department we respond in 2 counties and our home county is on VHF conventional. We dont have these issues with our Kenwood 90 series mobiles. The rear heads are mounted on the outside of the trucks and hold up to the elements with ease because they are designed to be weather resistant. Unlike the Motorola which costs 3 times more......WTF???
I could go on and on and on.........
Wes
Last edited by Wes on Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wes Hutchens
911 Telecommunicator/2-Way Sales & Service
911 Telecommunicator/2-Way Sales & Service
It is my understanding that the Astro Spectra and the XTL5000 heads are interchangable. At least that's what my sales stuff says.
You would be better getting a Mcycle head (more weather resistant but I wouldn't want a deck gun hitting it) for the pump panel, but even with my Midland installs, we mouted three speakers and three mics within a recessed enclouse at the pump panel.
The trend that I have seen (at least around here) is more drivers/pump operators using portables than the vehicle radio's.
You would be better getting a Mcycle head (more weather resistant but I wouldn't want a deck gun hitting it) for the pump panel, but even with my Midland installs, we mouted three speakers and three mics within a recessed enclouse at the pump panel.
The trend that I have seen (at least around here) is more drivers/pump operators using portables than the vehicle radio's.
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
-
Andy Brinkley
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: FMR80D and a Motrac with Scan
XTL-5000 heads
From my research what Wes is saying is true.
My fire department runs mutual aide with the county that he is in and we are going to have purchase our own radios. The quote from Motorola for the second head and associated cabling was around $650.00 plus installation. Any idea what a cost for the W4 weather proof head should be?
Also city fire went with the larger (W9?) heads in their apparatus. I haven't looked at one of the engines to see if they went dual head but I doubt that they did.
My fire department runs mutual aide with the county that he is in and we are going to have purchase our own radios. The quote from Motorola for the second head and associated cabling was around $650.00 plus installation. Any idea what a cost for the W4 weather proof head should be?
Also city fire went with the larger (W9?) heads in their apparatus. I haven't looked at one of the engines to see if they went dual head but I doubt that they did.
Andy / NC4AB
-
Hoseman292
- Posts: 224
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:37 pm
- What radios do you own?: too many
First of all I would like to thank you both for your replies and your opinions and input.
This is a very real and true situation.
The issue I am addressing is involving the county fire departments. I cant speak for anyone elses situation. I dont think the city fire departments got dual head radios. I am really unsure on that.
The local /\/\ shop came around to each FD to do the mobile installs and upon arrival broke the news to each FD that "Well, no these control heads are not weatherproof." For some departments this was not an issue, they were able to mount the heads inside compartments, etc. For those who had top mount pump panels and no compartments to mount in, they were just screwed. At my station, we told them to box all the extra heads up and after we figured out what to do, they could come back and complete the install.
In the planning stages the county sent a questionaire sheet to each FD to ask the chief what style mobile radios he needed for his apparatus. All they wanted to know was:
dash mount?
remote mount?
dual head?
No one came to any FD (as far as I know) and looked at any trucks to see exactly what was needed.
So with all that said, As of right now, we are stuck with what we have.
I am trying to see what is avaliable to remedy the problem, that is why I came to the board to see what other fixes may be out there that I dont know about.
Also, I AM a 2-way technician for a KENWOOD shop and have been in the business for 10+ years, so I am not completely ignorant to radios and the like, I am just new to the digital trunking world.
At my department we respond in 2 counties and our home county is on VHF conventional. We dont have these issues with our Kenwood 90 series mobiles. The rear heads are mounted on the outside of the trucks and hold up to the elements with ease because they are designed to be weather resistant. Unlike the Motorola which costs 3 times more......WTF???
I could go on and on and on.........
Wes
I can believe Wes whole-heartedly... but why just stop at $24 million? Just go all the way and spend $180 million for a P25 system that goes out of range everytime you enter an elevator or any structure that involves metal or concrete. You would think that this problem is correctable but instead nothing is ever rectified when you report a serious issue such as coverage.
This is a very real and true situation.
It is a joint venture between Winston-Salem and Fosyth County NC. There are 22 County Fire Departments, 2 City/County Rescue Squads, City/County EMS, City Police Department, County Sheriff's Office, 17 City Fire Stations and other misc City/County government agencies on this system. It is Astro 25 Digital. I was told by a /\/\ repersenative that there were 800 mobile radios to install, I have no idea how many portables are out there. BTW, they are XTS2500s and XTS5000s. The City and County absorbed all of the costs for end user radio equipment. No department had to purchase their own equipment, unless they wanted more radios that what the county issued them.Wes wrote:The system is a $24 million system.
The issue I am addressing is involving the county fire departments. I cant speak for anyone elses situation. I dont think the city fire departments got dual head radios. I am really unsure on that.
The local /\/\ shop came around to each FD to do the mobile installs and upon arrival broke the news to each FD that "Well, no these control heads are not weatherproof." For some departments this was not an issue, they were able to mount the heads inside compartments, etc. For those who had top mount pump panels and no compartments to mount in, they were just screwed. At my station, we told them to box all the extra heads up and after we figured out what to do, they could come back and complete the install.
In the planning stages the county sent a questionaire sheet to each FD to ask the chief what style mobile radios he needed for his apparatus. All they wanted to know was:
dash mount?
remote mount?
dual head?
No one came to any FD (as far as I know) and looked at any trucks to see exactly what was needed.
So with all that said, As of right now, we are stuck with what we have.
I am trying to see what is avaliable to remedy the problem, that is why I came to the board to see what other fixes may be out there that I dont know about.
Also, I AM a 2-way technician for a KENWOOD shop and have been in the business for 10+ years, so I am not completely ignorant to radios and the like, I am just new to the digital trunking world.
At my department we respond in 2 counties and our home county is on VHF conventional. We dont have these issues with our Kenwood 90 series mobiles. The rear heads are mounted on the outside of the trucks and hold up to the elements with ease because they are designed to be weather resistant. Unlike the Motorola which costs 3 times more......WTF???
I could go on and on and on.........
Wes
I can believe Wes whole-heartedly... but why just stop at $24 million? Just go all the way and spend $180 million for a P25 system that goes out of range everytime you enter an elevator or any structure that involves metal or concrete. You would think that this problem is correctable but instead nothing is ever rectified when you report a serious issue such as coverage.
Speaking of non-weatherproof heads, anyone in Westmorelad County, PA. will get a laugh out of MANY of the newly-installed heads that were placed on the exterior of the truck along with their speakers. I guess that the contracted shop's installation monkeys didn't figure out that this isn't gonna work! Oh well, they'll be dealing with it for the next few years.