Batboard

GUYS


my department currently has a CCII and we are looking to upgrade. We have quotes in for both a 2-position zetron (crt and button and led) as well as a 2 position mcc5500. The moto is a little over 100k and the crt zetron crt is somewhat less than that and the pushbutton zetron is less than the crt version by like 13k. Our CCII has only 3 channel capacity and we are looking to add 2 more channels for a total of 5. I was asked today to write up a proposal building a case for upgrading so we can pass it up the chain of command to the big guy. Any suggestions as far as what to include what to say and what not to say. i have never done somthing like this and am not sure where to start and how tecnical i should be. any help would be appreciated


thanks

Your in for a real ride for your money. Your going to need to know a few more things to include in the RFP or RFQ that you put together.

You need to ask a bunch of questions about just how the console is going to operate.

Is any paging needed?
Is the paging dual tone sequential, what format, what tones?
What interface to control the radios, DC or tone? Maybe even local.
Will you use headsets for the operators?
Will the telephone system be interfaced into the headsets?
Do you need to control anything in the building like doors?
What console furnature will the consoles sit on?
What floor plan have you laid out for the room?
Where are you going to put the control electronics?
How many computer screens will be needed for a complete console position?
The above needs to include any CAD and GIS operation.
What possible patching will be needed between any of the radio channels?
How will you handle mutual aid frequencies from outside your area?
This is called interoperability.
Don't limit yourself to just the needed channels that your using today.
Allow for channel expansion and possibly additional consoles in the future.
How will you run the control cables between the console and the electronics?

These are just some of the simple questions that you should already have the answers to. If you need help, most of the consulting companies will be glad to charge you about 10% the cost of the console to put together the documents.

You can do it yourself, but expect to pull your hair out along the way. Also be sure to ask Motorola about alert tones. They seem to have a problem on the new version console with this. seems the engineers forgot the simple thing like a button on the console to send out a 1000 Hz alert tone. They also missed the different warble tones. Hopefully they have got the engineers to correct this slight oversight on the console design.

Don't forget the warrenty for the console. It is a good idea to ask for the years 2 through 5 to be spelled out in detail as to just what it will cost. Watch the Motorola price as they like to charge twice for the first year. It should be included in the price. Yet they like to add a line for the first year on top of that.

Hope this gets you started.

Jim



[quote="Radiogeek97"]GUYS


my department currently has a CCII and we are looking to upgrade. We have quotes in for both a 2-position zetron (crt and button and led) as well as a 2 position mcc5500. The moto is a little over 100k and the crt zetron crt is somewhat less than that and the pushbutton zetron is less than the crt version by like 13k. Our CCII has only 3 channel capacity and we are looking to add 2 more channels for a total of 5. I was asked today to write up a proposal building a case for upgrading so we can pass it up the chain of command to the big guy. Any suggestions as far as what to include what to say and what not to say. i have never done somthing like this and am not sure where to start and how tecnical i should be. any help would be appreciated


thanks[/quote]

I think that the MCC has alot of the features that you listed as standard or easily upgradeable. We are getting some new MCC (5 position) for our PS dispatch center and they seem to be feature packed, and can be programmed int he field for different buttons, a million different paging formats, alert tones, auto patch, etc.. As the salesman said.

We have had a 3 position Moto 5500 in operation for almost a year now (the first one in the country according to "M") and it operates flawlessly. We use it in a trunked environment and it has all the features of the Gold Elite without the telephone line costs.

I did a lot of research prior to purchasing it and it does have a lot of features, most of which we don't use. Here is the Gensac page on the trunked interface to the console:

http://www.genesisworld.com/GEnSAC/Default.htm

and the Motorola page, if you haven't seen it:

http://www.motorola.com/cgiss/dispatch/mcc_5500.shtml

WHY, WHY, WHY? Everytime I see someone looking for a two position console system the proposals start with ultra deluxe computer screen/ touchsceen/LCD, wiz-bang, la, la, la.

Your situation calls for 2 Zetron 4010/R consoles with 3 or 4 dual channel cards (6-8 ch) KEEP IT SIMPLE!

You still need some sort of manual interface anyway. Nothing better than being able to hit a known button to page or transmit. No computer, HD mouse, screen, ect to worry about. Simplified training. ultra reliable. No CEB. Redundancy by it shear nature.

Spend the saving on acutally making the SYSTEM work better. or Mapping/AVL or something more tangible.

Sorry, just had to vent.

http://www.genesisworld.com/GEnSAC/Default.htm

I was not aware that there is a control limitation using the Gensac system with the MCC5500 console. In looking at their site, it is clearly stated that you need to ues a "local control" control station with the MCC5500. You loose the ability to have tone remote control.

There is no mention of IP control or connectivity. Many of the trunking systems today are going to an IP link for control and passing the data and audio.

Dig into this and ask many questions to make sure this equipment will fit your need and application.

Jim

RE: Push vs ultra modern consoles...

I am a big fan of the pushbutton/LED consoles such as the CCII. One of the best made consoles (when the users are able to select the layout!).

Its nice to touch what you are doing...in fact, I wanted them in the new comm center at the PD.

However.... (the but)...

The computer based CCGE and Orbacom consoles have sold me. Takes two secs to reconfigure, and are highly redundant. At the new place, we have touch screen Orbacom's. Granted most use the mouse (which I didn't think I would like) but its really quite snappy.

No broken buttons, no downtime while the shop comes in and reconfigures the consoles, soda doesn't seep into the keys, they are just nice.

If you have the $$$ to spend, I highly recommend a PC based console over push button. This is a from real world applications....I converted. At least go and take a look at some actual installed in your area. See what they like/don't like between new and old.

Either way, don't forget all of the above in what you need, might need, and what they can do now.

You mentioned Orbacom consoles. I have been hearing a number of the feds are dumping their orbacom consoles due to all the problems they have had with them.

Tread carefully and ask for user contacts that are using the consoles your looking to install. It is better to talk with current users and get their likes and dislikes before you spend a pile of money and then find out your not happy with the results.

Make it part of any vendor submission that they supply you with a contact list of at least 6 locations to check out. Call and talk with them.

Jim



[quote="Pj"]RE: Push vs ultra modern consoles...

I am a big fan of the pushbutton/LED consoles such as the CCII. One of the best made consoles (when the users are able to select the layout!).

Its nice to touch what you are doing...in fact, I wanted them in the new comm center at the PD.

However.... (the but)...

The computer based CCGE and Orbacom consoles have sold me. Takes two secs to reconfigure, and are highly redundant. At the new place, we have touch screen Orbacom's. Granted most use the mouse (which I didn't think I would like) but its really quite snappy.

No broken buttons, no downtime while the shop comes in and reconfigures the consoles, soda doesn't seep into the keys, they are just nice.

If you have the $$$ to spend, I highly recommend a PC based console over push button. This is a from real world applications....I converted. At least go and take a look at some actual installed in your area. See what they like/don't like between new and old.

Either way, don't forget all of the above in what you need, might need, and what they can do now.[/quote]