Batboard

First, I know this has been talked about in much detail over the years, but I have a different spin on it, so here goes.

I want to link together, physically, 2 CXB MSFs at the same site. Repeater A is a 2-meter repeater, repeater B is a 420 Repeater. Repeater B will be used as a hub so that distant repeaters can talk to and through it with a 420 link radio tied across their individual repeaters. I also want Repeater B to be connected to Repeater A. Both radios have TTRC boards and the daughter audio boards.

I have looked at several controllers and they all tend to have the same issue, at least the cheaper ones. First of all, I do NOT WANT the ham controller to do anything to the repeaters audio, I am perfectly happy with the Motorola Audio processing, the stripping of PL during ID, the time out timers, the PL encoding and decoding. All I want out of a controller is an audio mixer and a DTMF controller to seperate the repeaters on command, nothing else.

I want the Repeater As audio to feed repeater Bs transmitter, and vice versa. Don't want DTMF muting or audio delays, or cutsy voice announcements, or hundreds of annoying "cortesy" beeps.

That being said, it looks simple enough to do slight modifications to most controllers (NHRC, ARCOM, etc.) so as to route the audio as needed.

The questions I have are based on previous postings about programming the MSFs as Base Stations and the like. In my description above, is there any reason to have to program anything other than as is, conventional repeater, and get the results. I need preferably discriminator audio from each receiver, PL Detect/COR from each receiver, and audio input to each transmitter that "mixes" with it's internal repeat audio (Micor called it Repeat Audio), and PTT points on each transmitter that doesn't mute audios from the internal repeat audio (Micor called it Repeat PTT). In programming PTT priority, I use RWL. In the analog stations I have found the required points without messing with the programming, but not sure about the CXB TTRC equipped stations.

Any comments?

What this sounds like you want for your MSF5000 Repeater is a Station Access Module or SAM board which installe above the MSF control tray. The module # TLN3323A, RVN4111A SAM Software (for Programming) and the Instruction Manual # 68-81127E40 with bonafide schematic diagrams (something you don't find with /\/\ current products).

This module interfaced to the MSF5000 allows DTMF, Sequential Two-Tone, Single Tone and MDC signaling decoding formats to provide the Set-Up and Knock-Down features within the station or to external equipment. I would recommend ordering the Instruction Manual first and read about the features. Then order the board, with the interconnecting cable kits, hardware and software. You'll find the SAM is very versital and packed with many features.

Dan

Unfortunately, $1000 later is not an option. In studying the SSCB, it looks like most of the signals needed to feed a $140 controller is present, much like an analog controller. I think I will go out and poke around with a scope and tone generator for awhile and see.

I recall seeing a DTMF decoder that can do some very simple control functions, such as turn something on or off. It is not a repeater controller, i.e. it has no CW ID, no voice, no timers, no audio processing.

The PL decoding is done by the microprocessor in the MSF5000's SSCB. You can get an output that tells you there's PL decoded, and there's a carrier on the frequency. These won't be user-friendly and you may have to go hunting for them.

The audio routing on the SSCB is pretty much purpose-built. The receive audio is gated to several places depending on the functionality of the station, i.e. it gets fed to the transmitter when used as a repeater, it gets fed to the headphone amplifier which feeds the control/mic jack, etc. Ditto with the transmit audio - only specific inputs are gated when desired.

The MRTI connector provides you with a convenient audio in/out plus PTT, but I couldn't get reliable COR and PL detect signals there.

There are some repeater controller interfacing articles on BatLabs, as well as other postings here on the BBS by FMROB. These should give you some ideas of the troubles others went through, as well as their solutions.

Bob M.

Tom,
What you want to do is workable. After reading your post here is what I come up with.. Please remember I am not a super wiz with this, so take it for what it is worth, and test everything before you try it.

You are on the right path. Keep the MSF's audio circuits in tact. It has great audio, and if you don't need "fancy features" the station controller is very flexible.

I know of a gentlemen who has done exactly what you have done (uhf to uhf) to do on-site remote talk in repeaters. He made a cable that plugs directly into the J2 connector on the side of each station. He controls his one RX radio with a SAM board for SU/KD of the radio. It all can be done right off the side of the radio.


However, Since the $1,000 for the sam is out of the question, why buy a expensive controller just to essentially turn on/off the TX station.

What I would do is just simply interrupt the PTT line of the TX station. How this can be accomplished is simply by using a maxtrac, with horn and lights output that works a realy which breaks the PTT line. This maxtrac can share the RX port of the RX station and can be accomplished thorugh MDC signalling. There are companies that make very cheap boards that will decode DTMF, MDC, Singletone and allow relays to be operated from the unit.

You may think it a cray idea, but why use a expensive controller just to do a quazi setup/knockdown.

Here are some links to cheaper, simple controllers
http://www.link-comm.com/controllers/rlc1.htm
http://www.com-spec.com/dtd1.htm

Here is the previous connection info:
Here is the pin outs for the J2 connetor located on the side of the repeater.
Most of these connections go the the TTRC board (I believe)

PTT- Pin 12 on the J2

COS- Pin 23 on the J2 "RDSTAT" will appear as RX1ACT on the test panel and mux bus diagnostics in the software. Originally I tried taking this from pin 1 of U1552 but for a regular controller this just provided a signal when the radio rx'd any signal on channel (which equates to no pl control) This is the pin you would use if you are using a "community deck" type panel where it will rx and tx it own pl/dpl.
** If I remember correctly the COS output provides an active low signal which I believe shows 5-6 volts DC and when the radio rx's a carrier with proper Pl/dpl it will drop to almost zero. Most controllers are selectable to some degree of which logic they will accept active high or low.

Audio from reciever- (Line 2) +++ Pin 2 on J2
(Line 2) ----- Pin 3 on J2

Audio to Transmitter- (Line 1) +++ Pin 6 on J2
(Line 2) ----- Pin 7 on J2

Audio Ground- Pin 17 on J2** Tie together pins 17-3-7

Logic Ground- Pin 19 on J2 (Ground for controller)

Repeater programming- In the software all "repeater controls" have to be set up as a base station operation " Half duplex" operation with ptt priority to the wire line.

- Set the "System Connector" to line and the "Spare output" to active low. This is in the advanced information section on page 8.

- Ideally the MSF will be functioning as a base station, so you would just program you channel info and pl info for what you need.

- All of the audio/dev/tonal quality adjustments can be adjusted with the softpots in the service area.

******** It is also noteworthy to mention that we found that the controller audion was not behaving properly because the controller didn't pose a large enough "load" on the Line 2 audio side. So we ran 2 1200 ohm (=600 ohm) resistors across the screw terminals of Line 2 +/- just below the J2 connector. This gave line 2 audio the 600 ohm load it would normally be looking for with a deskset tone remote type set up-*****

I hope this info helps you out. I am not an expert on this at all. Please test properly all of the connections before connecting to them. I also hope more people add to this post.

Good Luck, Rob