Scanning conventional and ASTRO?

Kleptein · Post by **Kleptein** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:16 pm

I think I know the answer to this, but there's always someone out there that seems to have another way of doing things!

Is it possible to scan both conventional channels and ASTRO groups at the same time with the XTS3500/5000?

Thanks!

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:37 pm

You mean analog conventional channels + digital conventional channels simultaneously? It's certainly doable with the 3000 - I can't imagine it would be any different on the 3500/5000.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:35 pm

I'm thinking conventional channels and trunked talkgroups, which is also possible, but isn't worth it because the radio has to monitor the control channel for x amount of time before scanning the conventional channels- you're bound to miss a lot.

-JOsh

Kleptein · Post by **Kleptein** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:56 am

Josh wrote:I'm thinking conventional channels and trunked talkgroups, which is also possible, but isn't worth it because the radio has to monitor the control channel for x amount of time before scanning the conventional channels- you're bound to miss a lot.

-JOsh

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant conventional channels, and digital talkgroups. I've been told that it isn't even possible. I typically scan about 3 talkgroups in the A bank of an XTS5000, and I have 1 conventional channel that is used on site. I'd like to be able to site on the conventional channel and operate, but catch any action on the talkgroups, too.

Can that be done?

bellersley · Post by **bellersley** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:07 pm

It is most certainly possible.

Here in the Ontario area, our Provincial Police are on a VHF Digital Trunked system, but have some analog conventional channels. I can use my XTS3000 to scan the talkgroups in digital, and the conventional analog channels within the same scanlist, and I hardly miss anything.

Post by Pj » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:46 pm

Are you talking about conventional analog and CONVENTAL Astro talkgroups (vs trunking)?

Kleptein · Post by **Kleptein** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:19 pm

Pj wrote:Are you talking about conventional analog and CONVENTAL Astro talkgroups (vs trunking)?

The setup is this: An ASTRO 800 MHz digital simulcast trunked system. I typically monitor 3 talkgroups on the ASTRO system, and all the talkgroups on the system are digital trunked talkgroups. I'm not sure what a conventional ASTRO talkgroup would be. These talkgroups I listen to are in the B bank of the XTS3500/5000.

In the A bank we have 2 conventional, simplex, non-repeated, unit-to-unit frequencies that we use on site. I'd like to be able to listen to both. Primarily when I'm on site I'll listen to 1 of the conventional, simplex frequencies, but I'd also like to scan one or two of the talkgroups on the ASTRO digital system.

Our system manager says it can't be done. He says you can't scan conventional, simplex frequencies and trunked talkgroups. Only one or the other.

Sorry again for any confusion. I know this is a complicated question, and I'm probably not using the correct terminology.

Thanks for everyones help.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:28 pm

OK, so you want to scan trunked talkgroups with digital voice and conventional channels.

This is doable in the XTS3000, but you have to set the scan type to Talkgroup, if memory serves. You will not be able to have any priority.

The 5000 *should* work as well. However, for instance, there was one version of firmware which removed the ability to scan multiple trunking systems in a non-priority mode (this "undocumented feature" bit a friend of mine). The next flash rev turned this functionality back on. What firmware revision do you have?

Post by Pj » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:31 pm

The radio's scan list needs to be to "Talkgroup". This allows scanning of conventional channels (analog and/or digital) and trunking channels (single or multiple trunking systems).

Here is the breakdown for the types of scanning meathods on the ASTRO's:

Conventional: Conventional channels only (limited to 15 channels)
Conventional Voting Scan: Chooses the strongest conventional channel (rare to use)
Talkgroup: Allows scanning of multiple trunked systems and conventional channels (limited to 10 channels max, no priorty scanning)
Priorty Monitor: Limited to 1 trunked system, allows for priorty scanning.

So in your case, you want to use Talkgroup scan. However, keep this in mind...if you listening to ch2, and traffic comes over say, ch1, the radio WILL NOT revert to ch 1 since priorty is not available in talkgroup scanning.

Post by Pj » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:40 pm

Here is the text from the RSS help files in case my babble above doesn't make any sense

Conventional -
May contain only Conventional Personalities. [Up to 15 members]

Priority Monitor -
May contain only Trunking Personalities from the same Type II system. If the SMARTNET Feature set has been purchased, then this type may contain Trunking Personalities from the same system. [Up to 10 members]

Talkgroup -
May contain both Conventional and Trunking Personalities, and may contain personalities from different systems. [Up to 10 members]

Voting Scan -
May contain only conventional personalities. When the Scan Type is Voting Scan, the radio will scan for carriers on all channels in the scan list. When a carrier is detected, a Received Signal Strength Indication (RSSI) sample will be taken on all channels prior to unmuting. Once these samples have been taken, the radio will attempt to unmute on the channel with the highest RSSI value, which means the strongest signal.
Voting Scan is compatible with all features, including data. However, a personality in which a voting scan list has been chosen will not be capable of performing regular conventional scan.

To set up a typical Voting Scan system, the Voting Scan List should have a number of personalities which differ only by their receiving frequency. [Up to 10 members for mobile/portable radios]

5-sides · Post by **5-sides** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:43 am

As Pj said, use "Talkgroup" and up to 10 members. I do it on my 5000's, and it works fine with two conventional channels ASTRO, one analog conv, and four talkgroups on a P25 system. The only limitation is 1 trunk system at a time.

Post by Pj » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:54 am

Unless the XTS5000 is different, the Astro Saber and Spectra will allow more than one system scanning under talkgroup scan.

Case in point, I had 4 conv channels, and the other 6 were from 3 different trunking systems.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:01 am

Pj wrote:Unless the XTS5000 is different, the Astro Saber and Spectra will allow more than one system scanning under talkgroup scan.

Case in point, I had 4 conv channels, and the other 6 were from 3 different trunking systems.

The XTS5000 IS different, for certain firmware versions.

It's either HOST R04.80.00 or 05.00.00 (I can't remember, too many numbers), Mother Moto removed the ability to scan across systems using the logic that you might miss a call (well no kidding, it wasn't priority scan in the first place!) This "feature" was quietly added back in to a later firmware revision.

A local fire department discovered this issue when they had their firmware uplifted and discovered that their configuration to scan two systems (they respond mutual-aid quite frequently to cities on two 800 trunks, and used the portables (legitimatelly programmed) to simply keep an ear on things happening on both systems.) would no longer fly.

5-sides · Post by **5-sides** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:50 am

tvsjr--"The XTS5000 IS different, for certain firmware versions. "

And I got caught right in the middle. We are working with Mother M to see if we can cut a deal on this, as she may have to address some other (P25) issues. The joys of being a Guinea Pig.

I guess I should have made it clear that some XTS-5000's will scan multiple systems, while others will not.

Now, if she will fix Omnilink for P25, I won't have to teach geography to my users anymore...