Well, I've decided to get into low-band. A recent trip to God's Country made up my mind. A VHF-HI radio with a very good antenna and 50 watts barely made it around the corner (the terrain is extremly hilly and the entire area is granite rock - nothing's getting through that). But, the Rangers up there use MT1000's and Maxtrac radios, one of them told me they can talk from one side of the park to the other on their radios, without a repeater (except for a mobile repeater). The park is about 60km across. To compare, VHF-Hi wouldn't even go 10km before it was totally un-useable. Sure, their low-band stuff was a bit old and the reception wasn't all that great, but it worked.
So.
Any suggestions as to what a cheap but decent mobile would be? I was thinking a CDM750 or Radius/Maxtrac variety, but I've never played with low-band so I wouldn't know where to look.
Thanks!
Low Band suggestion
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bellersley
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I take it your talking Ham low band ? I don't think anyone has made a CDM750 or any of the newer moto low band radios do 6 or 10 meters. Look for a radius or maxtrac in the correct split lots of info on the batlabs site on getting the max's and rad's up and running on 6 n 10.
Even a low band HT in the 6 meter split can be amazing at how far you can talk. I just returned from Michigan and brought my 6 meter HT with me, I didn't do much hamming but I was able to use one repeater in Midland Michigan from a town 35 miles away.
Mike
Even a low band HT in the 6 meter split can be amazing at how far you can talk. I just returned from Michigan and brought my 6 meter HT with me, I didn't do much hamming but I was able to use one repeater in Midland Michigan from a town 35 miles away.
Mike
It repends a little on what you're looking for and what your exact freq range is.
The SyntorX9000 will do 29-54 without retuning. It's a 110 watt radio (easily) with an alpha display.
The Maxtrac, Radius, and CDM lines are broken down into three splits - (roughly) 29-36, 36-42, and 42-50. The Radius and Maxtrac can be reprogrammed and retuned to go (a little) out of their rated split. Thus far, there is no 'out of band' hack for the CDMs. These radios are (approximately) 60 watt radios. You'd need to get a CDM1250 or 1550 for an alpha display.
If you like the Maaxtrac or Radius but want more power, look at a Maratrac. It's basically a 110 watt, remote-mount version of the Maxtrac.
Frankly, I've given up on Motorola for lowband gear. I've played with both the GE (MA/Com) Orion and the Kenwood TK630 and have fallen in love with both radios. Both radios sport alpha displays, 120 (or more) channels, 110 (or more) watts out, lower power draw than the comparable Motorola units, and a dashmount or remote-mount configuration. The TK690 is the newer version of the 630. Similar configurations as the 630, more features, but less happy out of band.
The Orion has Two bandsplits for lowband: 29-35 and 35-50. The Kenwood has three, approximately comparable to the Motorola. My TK630, however, has been retuned for 44-54 and it works beautifully over the whole range. And it only took me 15 minutes to do it. The Orion also takes very little work to go out-of-band.
Those are your options in a nutshell. Regardless of what you're looking for, you're going to be in the ballpark of $200-$400 for a decent lowband mobile. The Syntor X9000 runs towards the high side, as does the Orion. The 630 is right in the middle with the Maratrac, and the Maxtrac and Radius are on the lower end. The CDMs can go anywhere from $300 to $600, depending on model and split. (all prices are approximate though.)
The SyntorX9000 will do 29-54 without retuning. It's a 110 watt radio (easily) with an alpha display.
The Maxtrac, Radius, and CDM lines are broken down into three splits - (roughly) 29-36, 36-42, and 42-50. The Radius and Maxtrac can be reprogrammed and retuned to go (a little) out of their rated split. Thus far, there is no 'out of band' hack for the CDMs. These radios are (approximately) 60 watt radios. You'd need to get a CDM1250 or 1550 for an alpha display.
If you like the Maaxtrac or Radius but want more power, look at a Maratrac. It's basically a 110 watt, remote-mount version of the Maxtrac.
Frankly, I've given up on Motorola for lowband gear. I've played with both the GE (MA/Com) Orion and the Kenwood TK630 and have fallen in love with both radios. Both radios sport alpha displays, 120 (or more) channels, 110 (or more) watts out, lower power draw than the comparable Motorola units, and a dashmount or remote-mount configuration. The TK690 is the newer version of the 630. Similar configurations as the 630, more features, but less happy out of band.
The Orion has Two bandsplits for lowband: 29-35 and 35-50. The Kenwood has three, approximately comparable to the Motorola. My TK630, however, has been retuned for 44-54 and it works beautifully over the whole range. And it only took me 15 minutes to do it. The Orion also takes very little work to go out-of-band.
Those are your options in a nutshell. Regardless of what you're looking for, you're going to be in the ballpark of $200-$400 for a decent lowband mobile. The Syntor X9000 runs towards the high side, as does the Orion. The 630 is right in the middle with the Maratrac, and the Maxtrac and Radius are on the lower end. The CDMs can go anywhere from $300 to $600, depending on model and split. (all prices are approximate though.)
Re: Low Band suggestion
The only radio for my money is the Syntor X9000. It is the only radio I know of that covers everything in one radio. They do tend to be pricey but you can get lucky. If you can find one with no CPU's they are usually cheap. You can then buy another one in any band split and power level cheap and grab the CPU's out of it. I bought one for $60 including shipping, got a T-band UHF for free, and a cable for $30 and used a head I already had.bellersley wrote:Well, I've decided to get into low-band. A recent trip to God's Country made up my mind. A VHF-HI radio with a very good antenna and 50 watts barely made it around the corner (the terrain is extremly hilly and the entire area is granite rock - nothing's getting through that). But, the Rangers up there use MT1000's and Maxtrac radios, one of them told me they can talk from one side of the park to the other on their radios, without a repeater (except for a mobile repeater). The park is about 60km across. To compare, VHF-Hi wouldn't even go 10km before it was totally un-useable. Sure, their low-band stuff was a bit old and the reception wasn't all that great, but it worked.
So.
Any suggestions as to what a cheap but decent mobile would be? I was thinking a CDM750 or Radius/Maxtrac variety, but I've never played with low-band so I wouldn't know where to look.
Thanks!
Ron
On low band, 30 to 50mHz, the antenna IS the most important part of the radio setup. Too bad no one has made a "widebanded" low band antenna, so you will have to get one for a limited freq range on transmit.
I have low band comercial two-way customers on 30, 36 and 45 mhz for many years, ( like 40+yeqrs) I find the Comtelco shunt fed base load antennas work extreamly good. Order them un-glued and with the 52" rod. Remove the short plastic cover and tweek the upper part of the coil for best VSWR. Try to keep the rod at full lenth, 52" and remove a 1/2 turn or so if needed to go up in freq.
The Antennex Genissis so-called wide band antennas suck, do not waste your money,....been there, done that, won't go there again!
Another secret, or so, use an antenna analizer to tune the antenna.
I have low band comercial two-way customers on 30, 36 and 45 mhz for many years, ( like 40+yeqrs) I find the Comtelco shunt fed base load antennas work extreamly good. Order them un-glued and with the 52" rod. Remove the short plastic cover and tweek the upper part of the coil for best VSWR. Try to keep the rod at full lenth, 52" and remove a 1/2 turn or so if needed to go up in freq.
The Antennex Genissis so-called wide band antennas suck, do not waste your money,....been there, done that, won't go there again!
Another secret, or so, use an antenna analizer to tune the antenna.
If your looking at a Ham 6 meter mobile = I do have a converted 99ch Maxtrac ( Not a maratrac i say Maxtrac) thats presently set up in the 50 to 54 mhz ham band.
If intrested its for sale/trade.
I didnt find much in my area for local use for it.
It is profesionaly converted with the best conversion as listed here on batlabs = not just the get you there method.
Yes its a 99ch with scan.
PM me if interested.
EKLB
If intrested its for sale/trade.
I didnt find much in my area for local use for it.
It is profesionaly converted with the best conversion as listed here on batlabs = not just the get you there method.
Yes its a 99ch with scan.
PM me if interested.
EKLB
Low band is still the greatest, especially if you're looking for solid, reliable long distance mobile-to-mobile or mobile-to-base communication in a rural area.
It sounds like you might want raw (100 watt +) RF power output and, as others have mentioned, a great antenna system. For the money -- and if you're not afraid of a few holes -- go with an Antenna Specialists quarter wave whip cut to frequency. We always called 'em The Tree Banger, but they work like no other mobile antenna will. For a base station, the only sticks I'll ever recommend is the DB 201 folded dipole or, if you have a substantial tower, the DB 212 four-bay "trombone" antenna that side mounts down the tower. Obviously, use good heliax, adequate lightning protection, and connector weatherproofing, yada, yada, yada ...
For radio equipment, I always liked the old rock bound Mitreks if you only need one channel. Cheap. Parts still available. High Power. Nice small control head. Yeah, the crystals will set you back $50-$60, but it's a one time expense. The Micor and GE Mastr II stuff was great back in the day, but you have to buy three or four radios for every one you want to work, since cannibalizing parts may be your only hope if something ever breaks.
I've had a lot of success with Maratracs, although they're relatively pricey. The GE Delta SX and Rangr units are excellent. I've seen (working) 110 watt low band Rangrs on eBay for $100. I believe the first round of Deltas were rock-bound, but the SX units are programmable. Orion radios are great but they're a bear to program. Most are around $400 on eBay or from the used equipment vendors. You'll also run into programming issues with any GE radio using the S-825 alphanumeric control head. If there are any surviving GE/Ericsson/Macom shops out there, this is your best bet to get programming done right the first time.
I never cared for Syntors, although the radio has a lot of fans out there. I always thought they were clunky, especially with the old Systems 90 box style control heads held over from the Micor era.
Can't comment on the Kenwood stuff, but I've always heard good things. Same for Vertex/Standard. A local law enforcement agencies uses 39 MHz Vertex mobiles and they are heralded as ultra-reliable and are available in 110 watt versions.
It sounds like you might want raw (100 watt +) RF power output and, as others have mentioned, a great antenna system. For the money -- and if you're not afraid of a few holes -- go with an Antenna Specialists quarter wave whip cut to frequency. We always called 'em The Tree Banger, but they work like no other mobile antenna will. For a base station, the only sticks I'll ever recommend is the DB 201 folded dipole or, if you have a substantial tower, the DB 212 four-bay "trombone" antenna that side mounts down the tower. Obviously, use good heliax, adequate lightning protection, and connector weatherproofing, yada, yada, yada ...
For radio equipment, I always liked the old rock bound Mitreks if you only need one channel. Cheap. Parts still available. High Power. Nice small control head. Yeah, the crystals will set you back $50-$60, but it's a one time expense. The Micor and GE Mastr II stuff was great back in the day, but you have to buy three or four radios for every one you want to work, since cannibalizing parts may be your only hope if something ever breaks.
I've had a lot of success with Maratracs, although they're relatively pricey. The GE Delta SX and Rangr units are excellent. I've seen (working) 110 watt low band Rangrs on eBay for $100. I believe the first round of Deltas were rock-bound, but the SX units are programmable. Orion radios are great but they're a bear to program. Most are around $400 on eBay or from the used equipment vendors. You'll also run into programming issues with any GE radio using the S-825 alphanumeric control head. If there are any surviving GE/Ericsson/Macom shops out there, this is your best bet to get programming done right the first time.
I never cared for Syntors, although the radio has a lot of fans out there. I always thought they were clunky, especially with the old Systems 90 box style control heads held over from the Micor era.
Can't comment on the Kenwood stuff, but I've always heard good things. Same for Vertex/Standard. A local law enforcement agencies uses 39 MHz Vertex mobiles and they are heralded as ultra-reliable and are available in 110 watt versions.
We are looking at a bunch of possibilities for lowband on the west coast. In one of the recent FCC auctions we were awarded 80 frequencies, roughly half in 35 MHz and half in 43 MHz. These are Part 22 licenses (ex-paging, before that they were mobile telephone) that are exclusive in a given economic area and allow an unlimited number of 600 watt ERP transmitters. We're accumulating Micor bases and so far have been testing with Syntor 9000 mobiles. Anyone interested in doing a business based on these channels, let me know. I have been thinking that a wide area repeater system, perhaps using trunking but more likely just multiple PL and selective calling, would be a good idea for a lot of places where distance matters.
Could you elaborate on what kind of "issues" you run into?w8cmi wrote:You'll also run into programming issues with any GE radio using the S-825 alphanumeric control head. If there are any surviving GE/Ericsson/Macom shops out there, this is your best bet to get programming done right the first time.
I've got a RANGR on 35-54 in my truck and have yet to ever have any issues with it or the S825-05 control head that it's plugged into.
Albeit the first time around the software is a bit confusing, but if you know how to use it, it's not that big a deal.
What issues are you talking about?
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bellersley
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- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:03 am
I should have cleared that up. Yes, I'm looking for something to do the 50MHz 6m ham band. I'd also LIKE the ability to RX around 42-48MHz, but that's not a dire need. I had the chance to pick up a GE Rangr with the 990 head for $75. I'm kicking myself pretty hard for not getting it now.
That 99 channel Maxtrac that EKLB has, is that one of the ex-Ontario Hydro units? I hear they're quite the cat's ass. I just might be interested. What are you looking to get for it?
Also, I'm not looking for a permananet mounting solution, just something temporary, so I'd most likely be looking at a mag-mount antenna. I know, not the best, but it's better than what I have now!
That 99 channel Maxtrac that EKLB has, is that one of the ex-Ontario Hydro units? I hear they're quite the cat's ass. I just might be interested. What are you looking to get for it?
Also, I'm not looking for a permananet mounting solution, just something temporary, so I'd most likely be looking at a mag-mount antenna. I know, not the best, but it's better than what I have now!
GE Rangr
The GE Rangr isn't going to do 6 meters until you modify it somewhat. The VCO requires mods and the transmitter low pass filter has to have a turn taken off the coils to keep it from heating up because it starts to cut off at about 51 MHz.
The S950 or S990 heads don't have to be programmed, per se. You pull out the EEPROM and just program that using a generic programmer such as a Data I/O 29B and something like the free Niles RSS.
The S950 or S990 heads don't have to be programmed, per se. You pull out the EEPROM and just program that using a generic programmer such as a Data I/O 29B and something like the free Niles RSS.
Kenwood 630, 690 or 6110...good
Motorola Maxtrac or CDM series...okay
OLD Vertex mobiles...okay
The Mitreks were still the BEST lowband radio ever built, but like the Syntors, they are extinct.
If possible, go high power. Power is your friend. If 45 watts is good, 300 is better if your license allows. Also, use a real antenna and not a mag mount. I use Comtelco mobile antennae and set up with an analyzer and they work great. Of course, you could use a 7' whip. For base antenna, as stated, the "trombone" or a folded dipole work well. Stay away from fiberglass modified CB-style base antennae. Install a ground also, as this helps with stray noise.
There's no band like lowband.
Motorola Maxtrac or CDM series...okay
OLD Vertex mobiles...okay
The Mitreks were still the BEST lowband radio ever built, but like the Syntors, they are extinct.
If possible, go high power. Power is your friend. If 45 watts is good, 300 is better if your license allows. Also, use a real antenna and not a mag mount. I use Comtelco mobile antennae and set up with an analyzer and they work great. Of course, you could use a 7' whip. For base antenna, as stated, the "trombone" or a folded dipole work well. Stay away from fiberglass modified CB-style base antennae. Install a ground also, as this helps with stray noise.
There's no band like lowband.
Compared to most GE programming, the S-825 requires many more entries. If you're doing anywhere near the maximum allowable 432 channels, it's easy to make a mistake. Same thing with Orion units. The Rangr, Delta SX and Orion radios and the S-825 control heads are super-fantastic, but the Orion radio and the Delta/Rangr S-825 heads just require more effort and patience on your laptop than your standard dash-mount mobile.d119 wrote:Could you elaborate on what kind of "issues" you run into?
I've got a RANGR on 35-54 in my truck and have yet to ever have any issues with it or the S825-05 control head that it's plugged into. Albeit the first time around the software is a bit confusing, but if you know how to use it, it's not that big a deal. What issues are you talking about?
If you've got a lot of stuff to program (like siren, light control, alphanumeric readout, multiple scan banks, user programmable and fixed P1 and P2 scan, talk-around, DTMF, multiple Channel Guard, repeat/direct, GE-Star, emergency signalling or any of the other gazillion features available on the S-825 system head) and you've never done it before, I always suggest spending the $ and getting the GE shop to do it right the first time.
If you ahve to use a mag mount on low band, you should just stay on high band. A mag mount works ok on high band and above, but on the 50 MHz and lower bands, they are just about worthless.
You need to have the coax shield at the antenna end grounded to the body of the vehicle for the antenna to work well. In a mag mount, obviously there is no physical connection. The base of the mag mount and the body of the vehicle form a capacitor. At higher frequencies, the reactance shown by this capacitor is low enough that the base is "close enough to ground" to work ok. On lower frequencies, that capacative reactance rises high enough as to make the effective ground very poor.
So yeah, if you want it to work, you need to drill. Otherwise . . . LB is tough enough to get the most from.
You need to have the coax shield at the antenna end grounded to the body of the vehicle for the antenna to work well. In a mag mount, obviously there is no physical connection. The base of the mag mount and the body of the vehicle form a capacitor. At higher frequencies, the reactance shown by this capacitor is low enough that the base is "close enough to ground" to work ok. On lower frequencies, that capacative reactance rises high enough as to make the effective ground very poor.
So yeah, if you want it to work, you need to drill. Otherwise . . . LB is tough enough to get the most from.
Chris,
Hamming 31 years
http://www.wa2zdy.com
Wesley Chapel, Pasco County, Florida
Snow? What's that?!
The human race is proof that Darwin was wrong.
Hamming 31 years
http://www.wa2zdy.com
Wesley Chapel, Pasco County, Florida
Snow? What's that?!
The human race is proof that Darwin was wrong.
High power lowband with a mag mount will also discolor your paint.
I've also seen it arc and burn through the paint on my old Blazer, but I was also hitting it with about 1200 watts.
WIth a mag mount, you could use a braided strap from the mag's body to the vehicle body to help reduce reflected power , but there's no substitute for a good antenna.
I've also seen it arc and burn through the paint on my old Blazer, but I was also hitting it with about 1200 watts.
WIth a mag mount, you could use a braided strap from the mag's body to the vehicle body to help reduce reflected power , but there's no substitute for a good antenna.
Excellent points - The S-825 isn't for the faint hearted, and you must have patience to program it properly... But man is it sweet once it's running!w8cmi wrote:Compared to most GE programming, the S-825 requires many more entries. If you're doing anywhere near the maximum allowable 432 channels, it's easy to make a mistake. Same thing with Orion units. The Rangr, Delta SX and Orion radios and the S-825 control heads are super-fantastic, but the Orion radio and the Delta/Rangr S-825 heads just require more effort and patience on your laptop than your standard dash-mount mobile.d119 wrote:Could you elaborate on what kind of "issues" you run into?
I've got a RANGR on 35-54 in my truck and have yet to ever have any issues with it or the S825-05 control head that it's plugged into. Albeit the first time around the software is a bit confusing, but if you know how to use it, it's not that big a deal. What issues are you talking about?
If you've got a lot of stuff to program (like siren, light control, alphanumeric readout, multiple scan banks, user programmable and fixed P1 and P2 scan, talk-around, DTMF, multiple Channel Guard, repeat/direct, GE-Star, emergency signalling or any of the other gazillion features available on the S-825 system head) and you've never done it before, I always suggest spending the $ and getting the GE shop to do it right the first time.