Batboard

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PEOPLE -- this is a long topic with information cover a period of years. PLEASE read the last dozen or so comments on the last page before you post a comment asking to be "put on the list". The list, if one can be said to have existed, is no longer necessary. The software is out there in beta form and soon to be in production release.

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Hi all.

I'm looking for details (similar to the fantastic Quick Call II documentation found on this site) on decoding Motorola MDC-1200 identifier codes. Does anyone have this documentation?

Also, I've written software which monitors a scanner via line-in to the pc, and can capture QC2 tones, identify the cap code, then use that code in the future to trigger 'events' (like turning on the pc speaker if a tone-event happens). Combine it with streaming audio and you can get alerted when things happen. Does anyone need this but me?

Sounds brilliant to me and probably the first of it's kind around here.

nmfire10 wrote:Sounds brilliant to me and probably the first of it's kind around here.

The goal is to provide functionality as close as possible to that of a Motorola Minitor for volunteer/call firefighters when outside the relatively short range those usually cover. More and more call firefighters work outside the small town where they live, and can't receive tone activations. What I'm working on will allow them to use their cell phones and/or desktop computers in a way that pretty much matches Minitor functionality -- over long distance.

I've got the telephony thing handled, the client side scanner monitor and audio streaming software handled, and the web site interface for managing contact data handled, as well as the notification piece. Now, I'm just working on ancillary "nice to have" features now, like trapping those identifier codes without a hardware add-on. So far, no hardware is required other than the scanner and the one PC running the software which both need to be located within range of the local signal.

The system will never replace live radio -- its always going to be subject to too many outside variables (like delay in notification delivery, internet line stability, etc..). For real-time dispatch of critical emergency services, its not acceptable. For secondary communication and for notification outside radio range (where an extra minute or two won't make as much difference) it makes a very nice solution.

btw: This post marks the first public announcement of it, so Shhhh. It won't be live until September some time.

Anyway, I think some of the parts (like the tone catching software) may be valuable in a non-commercial way to other people in scanner-land -- and I'm finding it very usefull for debugging radio issues because it can give you a nice real-time interface to the live frequency data. It makes spotting a 60hz (or its harmonic brothers and sisters) really easy. Its like having (well, technically it IS having) a software based oscilliscope.

How can you get a copy of this software? I would love it!

KuhnElectronics wrote:How can you get a copy of this software? I would love it!

I suppose if you want it soonest, send me email and I'll keep a list for when I release it. Whatever part I release as freeware, I'll probably offer to the batlabs folks as well so if they want to link it on the site they can.

I should be clear -- the service I discussed will not be free, it will be between $50 and $75 a month for an average sized call/volunteer department. The software which monitors the scanner, shows the frequency band over time, and traps for CAP tones will likely be the part I give away as a usefull tool.

I just need the software for a "Useful tool", not the service....

put me on the list: [email protected]

- Nick

KuhnElectronics wrote:I just need the software for a "Useful tool", not the service....

put me on the list: [email protected]

- Nick

No problem. I just need to refine the various algorythms a bit and play with the UI to make it more generally useful and less focused on my own needs, then I'll probably toss it out there and see what happens.

this sounds cool, however i missed something. What kind of service are you providing?? also put me on the list. [email protected]

firegood wrote:this sounds cool, however i missed something. What kind of service are you providing?? also put me on the list. [email protected]

The service will be as follows: A department runs a bit of software on a machine connected to a scanner. It, in turns, connects to the service center which is a set of redundant machines hosted in a high availability site on the internet backbone in Virginia. The department get a web interface where members manage their pager/cell phone/email/text messaging devices (including a schedule of when and what kind of messages to get). They also get a phone number they can call into to listen to the scanner when there is a call, and another bit of software any member can run on any pc to listen live to the scanner. When a tone activation happens, those who want are notified by text message or by their pc software "waking up" and (if they want) turning on the pc based listening software. Users on cell phones (thus not near a pc) can dial in to the number and listen to the call on "catch up" mode where it plays a recording of all the traffic since the tone, with the empty spaces removed; then they get transferred to the 'live' scanner traffic. Ancillary features are also there for things like maintaining a department directory, schedules, official documents/notices, paper work templates, etc.

It lets members outside Minitor range decide if a call is significant enough to leave work, for example. Employers are tollerant of people leaving because of an actual fire -- but nobody can leave for every false alarm. This makes it really easy to know. Add-ons are also planned to auto-notify of severe weather in an area, or other such things.

Does that explain it?

So, I plug my scanner and computer in, when the tones go off that I specify on the software on my scaner, my computer makes a noise or something? Add me, [email protected]

jmr3865 wrote:So, I plug my scanner and computer in, when the tones go off that I specify on the software on my scaner, my computer makes a noise or something? Add me, [email protected]

Right. At a minimum, you could use it to have tone-activation for nearby towns so you can hear what they've got going and know if you're about to get called for aid.

Very nice idea! Sure could be useful around here. I'm sure it'll turn out fantastic! I'd love to be on the list. My email is [email protected]

Rayjk110 wrote:Very nice idea! Sure could be useful around here. I'm sure it'll turn out fantastic! I'd love to be on the list. My email is [email protected]

Fantastic. This board and Batlabs has now helped me in two huge ways. First providing the documentation I needed on Quick Call II -- and now I think I've figured out how to get the word about the service out.

I think I'll release the basic tone-activation for PC's software for free, and on it include a brief note about the service. That seems a fair trade to me.

We can all be Beta testers, lol.

Great idea!!

One question, any chance of having a singletone 1050Hz alert for NOAA weather use?

I could see this becoming a great way to get weather alerts around here. I know some will still argue the, get a weather radio, debate. But, i see uses that a weather radio can't provide. like having the computer record and archive the alerts for later review.

kb0nly wrote:We can all be Beta testers, lol.

Great idea!!

One question, any chance of having a singletone 1050Hz alert for NOAA weather use?

I could see this becoming a great way to get weather alerts around here. I know some will still argue the, get a weather radio, debate. But, i see uses that a weather radio can't provide. like having the computer record and archive the alerts for later review.

Oh, absolutely. The software is designed to trigger on any "event" which can be a specific frequency tone (+/- w%) or a sequence of those tones. The controls work a bit like squelch in that you can modify what the software recognizes as a tone. For example, it must be x times the average background noise (squelch) plus it must be y% consistent at that level for at least z milliseconds.

When it triggers, it will shell out and run any program you specify, so it could do virtually anything.

It turns out that all this computation is actually pretty hard on a pc's processor -- especially if you're trying to watch a range from 0hz to 44100hz (tone frequency, not radio frequency) all at once. For that reason, I've written to work in two modes -- either 'trap' in which case its looking for any tone that meets your criteria and reporting it on, or else 'normal' mode where it watches only for those frequencies you've identified as tones. You can also narrow the band you're trapping, so for example ignoring all sounds below 62hz and above 3000hz (the defined range for QC2 as I understand it).

** I should add though, that a lot of scanners support weather alerts that are pretty specific. If you're using one of those, I'd like to add an option that pulls that code and shows you what the issue they're yelling about is.

SAME data is sent with the weather alert to indicate the type of alert and the county for which it is intended. Some of the weather alert radios now days are fairly sophisticated, your able to set the counties for which you want to hear alerts, the type of alerts you want to hear, watches, warnings, etc.

In my case, i just want the audio from the scanner silent until the 1050Hz tone is heard. Although, and i don't know how hard it would be to do software wise, it would be neat having a software that you could put in the SAME code number for your county. The NOAA weather website has all the info on that. The only problem is with all the codes for the entire US to cover all counties could be a lot of data to work with.

The local NOAA Weather Radio station that i listen to, KXI50 out of Russell MN serves six counties. Of which two of them concern me, where i live, and where we work. It's not a big deal to hear an alert for any of the counties covered since if the neighboring county has a thunderstorm rolling through chances are its headed for me soon anyway!

I'll be keeping an eye on this, let us all know when its ready to be tested by end users.

wow, thats awesome. I'll have to see if i cant get some members to sign up!

kb0nly wrote: In my case, i just want the audio from the scanner silent until the 1050Hz tone is heard. Although, and i don't know how hard it would be to do software wise, it would be neat having a software that you could put in the SAME code number for your county. The NOAA weather website has all the info on that. The only problem is with all the codes for the entire US to cover all counties could be a lot of data to work with.

Not as hard as you may think. I'll look into it. There's a single switch to monitor or not monitor the mic or line-in port on most windows machines. If I can flip that switch at the software level, you'd have it all set.

Now, translating the codes that come in can happen two ways. Some scanners (like my new $99 one) can communicate that code directly to the pc in clear language over the serial port. That's easy. Others would require I can capture the code itself and decode it. That's public data, so I guess I'd just need to read the spec and see how hard it would be.

The database of codes to locations isn't hard work. Its a lot of data, but I don't have to touch it all. That's what software is for.

Do you have a website that your software can be downloaded from? If not, can you please put me down for a copy as well ? I'm look for some local alerting options and your software would work perfectly. Thanks

Randy
[email protected]

RBMTS wrote:Do you have a website that your software can be downloaded from? If not, can you please put me down for a copy as well ? I'm look for some local alerting options and your software would work perfectly. Thanks

Randy
[email protected]

I do have a website, but this software isn't on it quite yet. As you can see, I'm still finalizing things.

Please add me to the list to get the software as well. I will gladly pay for said software if necessary. [email protected]
thanks

KB1DRL wrote:Please add me to the list to get the software as well. I will gladly pay for said software if necessary. [email protected]
thanks

I love hearing that! -- but no, this part will be free. I've decided to use the free part as a way to let people know about the paid service. From the response here, I think that will work.

For all of you on the list -- I'm working on it.

If ya don't mind, please add me to the list as well

[email protected]

thx

Should be a very interesting piece of software, and if you get the weather stuff in there a very useful piece of software for even more people. Like i said, weather radios are nice, but the ability to take that alerting and do other things with it sounds intriguing.

Put me on the list as well, i want to be kept in the loop on this one!

kb0nly at frontiernet dot net

I won't type my email address exactly on here, darn spammers have been pulling email address's off of everywhere.

Will this software be able to decode standard DTMF touch-tones? The provincial ambulance repeater system uses DTMF to key up the dispatcher and i've always wondered what keys they use...

VE9MP wrote:Will this software be able to decode standard DTMF touch-tones? The provincial ambulance repeater system uses DTMF to key up the dispatcher and i've always wondered what keys they use...

Yes. I never appreciated the beauty of DTMF until I started this project and realized how hard it can be to pick out a single tone. DTMF is much less error prone.

I would like to be added to the list for the free software. [email protected] is my e-mail address. It sounds like great software.

Andy,
First off, kudos on taking the initiative to produce a program that has awaken the nerd in us all. This program seems to hold great potential, and with the support, input (and not to mention the wide base of willing beta testers here) I think this program might become something even bigger than even you could have imagined.

As far as the MDC protocol, the best forum I have found on it is http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=mdc1200 which gets rather in depth. I am currently working on a project that will decode the MDC1200 ID using a T5600 console, take the ASCII output, feed it into the computer's COM1 port, and display the IDs on each one of our three primary dispatch terminals. I have yet to figure the connections which I need to tap into which would give me the ASCII out. There has only been one other person that has worked on decoding MDC using a soundcard, and I believe it's still in the alpha-level stages of development (it's discussed in the link I posted above).

I hope this helps!

-Carl


P.S. - As well as everyone else, I'd love to be added to the list of beta testers ... cfacer "a-t" gmail "d-o-t" com

cfacer wrote:Andy,
First off, kudos on taking the initiative to produce a program that has awaken the nerd in us all. This program seems to hold great potential, and with the support, input (and not to mention the wide base of willing beta testers here) I think this program might become something even bigger than even you could have imagined.

A quote from the original Star Wars comes to mind. "I can imagine an awfull lot."

cfacer wrote:As far as the MDC protocol, the best forum I have found on it is http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=mdc1200 which gets rather in depth. I am currently working on a project that will decode the MDC1200 ID using a T5600 console, take the ASCII output, feed it into the computer's COM1 port, and display the IDs on each one of our three primary dispatch terminals. I have yet to figure the connections which I need to tap into which would give me the ASCII out. There has only been one other person that has worked on decoding MDC using a soundcard, and I believe it's still in the alpha-level stages of development (it's discussed in the link I posted above).

I hope this helps!

-Carl


P.S. - As well as everyone else, I'd love to be added to the list of beta testers ... cfacer "a-t" gmail "d-o-t" com

Thanks. This is helpful. Reading bits at 1200bps off the sound card should be pretty easy, provided I can flag the start point fast enough so it doesn't just go by. I don't know the T5600 console, but if it has a serial port output it should be pretty straightforward. What trouble are you having?

Not sure if you can tell -- but as geeks go, I'm pretty much off the chart. I know plenty of geeks, I knew very few geek firefighters.

This sounds like such a great project. I had used a program that would do DTMF tones and trigger events. But then the FD went to QC2 and there went the project. If you need any support on getting the word out when you get the software released I will be more then glad to pass it along up in NY.

tbendick wrote:This sounds like such a great project. I had used a program that would do DTMF tones and trigger events. But then the FD went to QC2 and there went the project. If you need any support on getting the word out when you get the software released I will be more then glad to pass it along up in NY.

Yeah. The more I play with QC2, the more I love DTMF. I've gotten to where I can easily detect a KNOWN tone frequency and in most cases can work backwards from a live recording and give you back the cap code itself for the tone (with the 2plus2 anyway) or at least the frequencies of the tones so you can then trap in the future (2plus3 is harder to work back to a cap code because the first and second tones don't predetermin the whole code unless you know the group).

Tonight, I'm reading about Hamming Filters, and will need to code one and put it in tomorrow to clean the signal up. That should help a great deal.

As of 1am tonight I've resolved the fft issues and am getting a high degree of accuracy from around 20hz to as high as around 6000hz. The QC2 signals are all in the range of 250-3000hz, with most centered around 300-1000hz.

Now its just packaging. Thank you for all of you on the list for beta -- I hope to have this out to beta within days.

Add me!

...and me

[email protected]

put me in for some of that action as well

[email protected]

Please add me to the list

[email protected]

I am adding each to a list. I'm sure this group will make a heck of a beta test group.

Did you get a working MDC1200 decoder in the software?

Can I measure tone frequencies coming on from the scanner or do I need to find them a different way before hand to get it to trigger events?

AndrewJayPollack wrote:
Also, I've written software which monitors a scanner via line-in to the pc, and can capture QC2 tones, identify the cap code, then use that code in the future to trigger 'events' (like turning on the pc speaker if a tone-event happens). Combine it with streaming audio and you can get alerted when things happen. Does anyone need this but me?

as per the first post: records, identifys, does stuff.

firegood wrote:

AndrewJayPollack wrote:
Also, I've written software which monitors a scanner via line-in to the pc, and can capture QC2 tones, identify the cap code, then use that code in the future to trigger 'events' (like turning on the pc speaker if a tone-event happens). Combine it with streaming audio and you can get alerted when things happen. Does anyone need this but me?

as per the first post: records, identifys, does stuff.

Yup, I can read.

and can capture QC2 tones

I was wanting to know if it can capture and identify other frequencies besides QC2 to trigger an event, ie. the office-style telephone ring on the FD's autopatch dispatch system.

I was wanting to know if it can capture and identify other frequencies besides QC2 to trigger an event, ie. the office-style telephone ring on the FD's autopatch dispatch system.

Strictly speaking, right now it displays the most recent two dominant frequency signals from the default recording device - about 20 times per second - in the debugger screen of visual studio. It does so after normalizing the inbound stream, removing aliased signals, and adjusting for drift. For these, it displays the signals "mean squared amplitude" presuming that the measurement is at least 50% higher than the average signal strength across the spectrum being measured. I'm sure that sounds simple enough, it did however, take a good two weeks to figure out.

Now., speaking in terms of what it will do once this core capability is wrapped with pretty dialog boxes and a menu option or three.... There are three main parts of the application. A "discovery" part which is watching the entire spectrum to identify any tones which meet the aformentioned criteria. This is used solely to discover and identify 'new' tones. The second part watches "known" trigger frequencies, ignoring all others. This is important because the triggers need to happen even if the trigger frequency is not hte dominant frequency at the time. Like a minitor. As long as the tone value is present at sufficient strength, the minitor doesn't care what other noise is on the band. The menus and dialog boxes, ini files, and diagrams with circles and arrows on the back of each one will let you identify the trigger frequencies by: (a) A known QC2 CAP code, or (b) a sequence of frequency tones (or combined pairs of frequencies as a single tone -- as in the case of DTMF), each defined with a strength and duration. When a sequence identified as being "watched" is detected, an "action" is taken. That's the third part of the application. Actions are defined in this third part. This will include a "shell" out to another program of your choice. Depending on how skilled you are, that could mean just about anything.

So, can it react to other things, like a ringing telephone? First, using this to detect a ringing telephone is a bit like using a smoke detector to tell when the turkey is ready. It can be done, in fact a great many people seem to use this method every day. It is not, however, what I'd call a best use of the technology. Kidding aside, it depends on (a) how is it 'listening'? Have you connected the telephone's bell to a microphone jack of some kind? It will detect any clean, relatively simple freqency which is constant for at least 1/20th second. The more complex the signal, the less likely you'll detect it well.

What makes QC2 tones work well is that they're centered quite firmly at one frequencies +/- about 2%; and have sufficient spacing between signals that its unlikely to be a problem.

DTMF takes this to another level of complexity by having two signals of this description at the same time. First, it means you only need 8 frequencies to watch for the 16 signals; and second between the signals spacing on the frequencies used, and the use of two at once in combination, falsing is nearly eliminated. If one signal is not clear enough, its unlikely to produce a situation where BOTH are off by enough to produce another valid event (a wrong key press). In fact, if you know one frequency clearly, you only need to pick out the other from one of four, each spaced very widely from the other.

Does this 'splain anything? BTW: If I'm wrong on any of this, someone correct me. 2 weeks ago I didn't know any of it.

When is this program going to be sent out to us beta testers?

KG4LHQ wrote:When is this program going to be sent out to us beta testers?

Well, the plan was .... the 18th of August. That hasn't worked out so good. I had difficulty getting the reliability and clarity of the signal processing working. Now that that's done, I'm working pretty much in known territory and its a matter of finding the number of hours to finish. I could make it work for me in about 2 hours. Of course, then you'd need the source code and a programer to make any changes to the settings. Instead, I think I'll build a few menus, forms, and buttons. That's mostly drag and drop. I'm guessing I have about 6-8 hours of programming/design work before its suitable for beta.

The real challenge remaining is only making the parts of it you see, unerstandable enough to use without a manual. If you think that's easy, sit down with some paper and draw screens that are simple but flexible enough to do what I described above. As you draw in more and more complexity, think about the poor idiot that has to write the code.

That's the good news. The bad news (from a project perspective) is, the spouse and offspring return late saturday night or early sunday; and school doesn't start until a week from wednesday. I'll either have a beta ready tomorrow night, or it will be several days.

add me to the list also. thanks

[email protected]

Add me to the list as well, please. Sounds like a great piece of software.


[email protected]

KI4IHC wrote:Add me to the list as well, please. Sounds like a great piece of software.

[email protected]

The more the better. I made a lot of progress today but didn't quite finish in time to get the beta out. It will likely be some time next week now. Here's a screenshot which shows what's done. Those particularly astute will notice what clearly isn't done quite yet.

http://www.thenorth.com/blogpics/active ... enshot.jpg

It sounds as if you are still working on the "alerting" portion of the software and that the reading and ID of tones seems to be working. Would it be any use to you if some of us tested it as it currently is for the tone reading portion of your software? This might help to catch some early bugs. If we can be of any help, just let us know.

I agree with Marty (KB1DRL) about providing a donation. If you had a paypal account, post your ID so that some people who like your software can make a contribution. I would !

Randy

RBMTS wrote:It sounds as if you are still working on the "alerting" portion of the software and that the reading and ID of tones seems to be working. Would it be any use to you if some of us tested it as it currently is for the tone reading portion of your software? This might help to catch some early bugs. If we can be of any help, just let us know.

I agree with Marty (KB1DRL) about providing a donation. If you had a paypal account, post your ID so that some people who like your software can make a contribution. I would !

Randy

Thanks. I'll think about the donation thing -- ultimately though I think the other part of the app will be the commercial piece.

I'd love to distribute the early work for catching those bugs -- but I haven't gotten the time to write the bugs yet. Actually, at this stage it changes so fast that it would be more time consuming to generate daily builds than to just finish it.

I cant wait to try it out

AndrewJayPollack wrote: Not sure if you can tell -- but as geeks go, I'm pretty much off the chart. I know plenty of geeks, I knew very few geek firefighters.

I am just that!!! geek/firefighter/emt/911 operator/all services dispatcher/communications training officer/acting supervisor/aspiring actual supervisor/and going to work on getting my hammy!

Can you please add me to the list of beta testers?!?

[email protected]