Batboard

I was programming a Saber II today, oddest damn problem, it won't transmit between 151-151.990, it works fine down to 144, and all the way up to 174, but will not transmit at 151!

I can't figure it out, i have reprogrammed it a few times, checked the channel data over and over and over and over, you get the point.

The bandsplit is correct, 146-174, i don't what else to do, why would it block one chunk and allow everything else??

Something funny in the vco?Maybe replace it if you have a spare.paul

Nope, i swapped modules with a known working VHF unit and the same results. I don't know, i thought maybe something funny in the programming but i created a new codeplug from scratch and tried that, didn't work either.

Truly weird,

I have th exact same problem as you describe. Did the same things as you, new codeplug, swapped VCO etc.

Won't TX or RX.

Saber VIRUS? heh lol.

EEPROM failure?

FYI, its a H43QXJ7139CN Saber III in a Saber II case.

does the transmit light come on?if you have a scanner listen to see if you can hear anything on it in the way of a transmitted signal.maybe its another module.paul

Mine just emits the VCO unlock tone on TX. Completely deaf on RX.

YEP!

Same thing here, Unlock tone on TX, nada on RX. But only in the range of 151-151.990, that just happens to be what i tested, i'm sure it doesn't work at any combination there of, 150 it works fine, 152 it works fine, but inbetween nada.

H43QXJ7139CN Saber III in a Saber II case here also!

Just out of curiosity, where did you get yours apco? This one came from ebay, it's in good shape and works perfectly otherwise throughout the entire bandsplit, it has better receive sensitivity than an MT1K i compared it to.

Ebay, bet its the same family of radios. What's the last of your serial #?

1333RW here

Have you checked what split modules are in yours?

Low split VCO in this one.

My radio did work briefly on 151Mhz (local fire channel we use for mutual aid with 151.385 and then just stopped suddenly.

H43QXJ7139CN Saber III in a Saber II case here also!

First of all, the model number for your radio states that it IS a Saber II with secure capability, not a III in a II case. Since you've already tried the easy stuff (swapping modules), I've got to ask, are these 5D or 6D core. I've seen some 5D units "upgraded" to 6D but all that was done was the processor & signalling chip were changed. They neglected to make the required changes to the caps & resistors in the circuitry. Just a thought.

Mine is a 6D core. So despite it having the 8k front it can't be programmed as a Saber III? I though you could just reprogram it to a Saber III and put it in a III case and that's it.

I took all the modules out of this radio and looked up the numbers, i have been compiling a list of module numbers from previous posts on the batboard since i got interested in the Saber.

All of the modules were 146-162/174 except the PA module was a NLD8121A, so a 136-150 PA in a 146-162 radio?

And even with all that pointing towards a 146-162 radio it had a NLD8121A PA module, which is the 136-150 variety. Weird how it would transmit above 152 regardless.

Anyway, i replaced the PA with a NLD8773A from a Saber I i have for parts and now it transmits fine on 151, i have it on the wattmeter doing 6w across the entire bandsplit, checked it every 500khz by programming a new codeplug with the transmit of each channel one step higher.

Why it would have had a low split PA module in it when the rest of the radio is a mid split i have no idea! But it works perfectly now.

The only other question I have is that I see a lot of posts mention the 5-Pole filters, NFD6091 and NFD6092, are these optional in place of the 2-Pole filter, otherwise where the heck is it? I would assume that since mine has a filter with the 2-Pole number, NLD6112A, that this module location is where they would install the 5-Pole in its place if selected. I removed all the modules and looked at the list and was thinking I misplaced a part until I put the radio back together and there was no empty locations, LOL.

Oh and the last of the serial is 2742, this one even has a USGEID number on it.

I wonder if maybe it was a low split radio that someone else swapped all but the PA module into.

Either way, it works perfectly now and has a DES-XL module in it that i am going to try loading a key into once my KVL gets here.

The two smaller modules for the radio are located in the upper right of the frame, the closest to the frame is the filter/detector/switch, and the number for that module in the 146-162 range is: NFD6132A.

The standard 2-pole filter is just left of that, and it's tinier in size as well as shorter, the number for the 146-162 range is:NFD6112A.

The NLD8121A is for the 136-150 band split, high power

The NLD8122A(NLD8773A) is for the 146-162 band split, also high power as stated.

The NLD8123A is for the 157-174 Band split..high power.

The problem could originate in the PA and the filter/detector/swith and 2-pole filter, if of the wrong band split, as well as a low freq. PA, you could see an almost mid band cut-off due to the differing module's designed frequency coverage, the PA being too low in band, the filter also being low and the detector/switch being too high could cause the TX to cut off as this is the region in which one or more modules pass into non resonance and are an impedance barrier preventing the radio to go into TX mode.

The NLD8180A rcvr module covers the entire VHF band, but the synthesizer and replacable modules do not, if there are several or many in different splits, this is probably why the radio is not transmitting.

The synthesizer for the 136-150 split is NLD8201B, the next 'range' higher is NLD8210B to get 146-174.

The 5-pole filters are as follows:
NFD6091A: 136-150
NFD6092A: 146-174
---------------------------------------
2-pole filters are as follows:
NFD6111A: 136-150
NFD6112A: 146-174
---------------------------------------

PA Modules:

NFD8121A: 136-150
NFD8122A: 146-162
NFD8123A: 157-174
NFD8133A: 146-174 (low power)
----------------------------------------

Filter/Detector/Switch

NFD6131A: 136-150.8
NFD6132A: 146-174
----------------------------------------

Synthesizer Modules:
NLD8201A: 136-150.8
NLD8210A: 146-174
----------------------------------------
Receiver/Xtal Filter/I.F Amp/Mixer

NLD8180: 136-174 (entire band split)
-----------------------------------------

That's all of it for the VHF band for the Saber series radio, I, II, III

I would ensure all modules are the same band split, different modules installed 'can' cause TX lockout problems due to the frequency difference, and what module/s are where on the board....Filter, Detector, PA, Synth., this could cause a dead 'zone' the radio will not transmit within because of that very problem.

I don't see how its still a saber II if it reports 120 channels and has an 8k front and keypad unless its one of the crippled models.

Been so long since I've had sabers around I'm probably forgetting something.

5D core here.

All the modules in this radio are 146-162/174, except the PA was 136-150. As previously mentioned a PA swap got it working correctly now.

I stil have a question about the filter. So if it has a 5-Pole filter it is installed in the location where the 2-Pole filter is?

I assume that the 5-Pole filter was just an optional item for better performance?

That's it.....The 5-pole filter slips right in where the old 2-pole was, for better image rejection and spurious signals, probably a must in the vicinity of explosives and medical equipment, can't have a stray signal getting into a panel for detonation control...could be nasty.
Same goes for med gear.

I wish I could locate the UHS module, I could enjoy having a little hotter RX on my mountain hikes.

Glad the PA swap resolved your troubles.



*And now, you have the rest of the story*(Paul Harvey)

The 5-pole filter slips right in where the old 2-pole was

Nice guess but wrong. Look under the NLD8180. The 5 pole filter is mounted to the bottom side of this module.

As to the question of converting a Saber II to a Saber III. If your Saber II has a FULL keypad AND the 8K controller (and the 2K omit memory option was NOT selected) all you need to do is program a new code plug using model # H43 (or 44 for UHF) SAK (or QXK for secure) 7139CN. If your controller board only has 2K, get a new controller.

See, that's what confused me, i read another post about it being under the 8180, there isn't nothing under them on these, just a flat piece of shield.

So, the real question is, where the heck is that number written on it? That is, how can i tell one 8180 from another?

Nevermind, i see what your getting at, i took one and carefully peeled off the bottom and removed the bottom board, on the top side of that underneath the plastic that seperates the two boards inside is the part number.

Learn something new every day!

The 8180s are all the same. That flat piece of shield IS the 5 pole filter. If you CAREFULLY release the gold tabs from the silver body of the 8180, that "shield" will come out. On the top side will be a thick, red insulator. Under that insulator you will find the filter part #.

Thanks, i found that out just before you posted. I was a bit leary of opening it up but now that i did it ain't so bad taking it apart.

Ok, mysteries of the modules have been solved.. LOL

Too bad my manuals don't state where that filter is located, and I've never had a reason to disassemble the 8180, only replace them.

If there is a notation, I haven't found it yet, which is a bit odd, their manuals are usually pretty well laid out information-wise that is.

The SRNs and FMRs I have do not point to the location of this filter, only the schematic places it roughly in proximity to the NLD8180, which is also seen as separate from U2(5-pole), that is why I 'assumed' incorrectly that it takes the place of the 2-pole.

Since it is listed as a separate module, this was one more reason that caused me to deduce it would be a replacement for the 2-pole, in the same location...learn something new every day!

I took my first one apart tonight and looked over the assy, and yep, there it is, the 5-pole filter!
In all the years I've had these radios on my bench, I've never taken the time to rip into the 8180 module...There was never any reason to.

The filter is not an active device, and if the I.F amp goes bad, you replace the device and assemle, never tear it down further.

I should have been more inquisitive........years ago.