ADP ENCRYPTION COMPATABILITY

WAYNE SHAW · Post by **WAYNE SHAW** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:24 pm

ARE THERE ANY OTHER BRANDS OF RADIO USING ADP ENCRIPTION

WAYNE SHAW · Post by **WAYNE SHAW** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:25 pm

AND IS ADP ENCRYPTION PROJECT 25 COMPATABLE

judoka · Post by **judoka** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:44 pm

I think that the only project 25 compatible encryption schemes are (Triple) DES and AES. Unless the A in ADP stands for AES, I would say that it isn't project 25 compatible. I don't know what ADP is so I can't answer the first question.

Post by **alex** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:56 pm

Please locate the caps lock key. It's between the Tab and Shift key's. Depress it once so that the light goes off, and then post your reply. Typing in all CAPITAL LETTERS IS CONSIDERED YELLING AND RUDE/NOT GOOD INTERNET ETTIQUITE!

Thanks!

-Alex

(note: the above is ment to take a subtle and amusing jab to turn off your caps lock key before posting)

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:26 am

ADP (RSA's 40-bit RC4 cipher renamed to avoid trademark infringement) is P25 compatible, and is available only on Motorola equipment at this time.

USGOVTECH · Post by **USGOVTECH** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:41 am

ADP stands for ADVANCED DIGITAL (PROTECTION) or (PRIVACY). It is availiable on Motorola radios. It is P25 Compatible and is a controlled technology, meaning that this product is not sold only to specific agencies. How do I know, I work on the stuff. I hope this helps.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:57 am

ADP is sold to whomever wants to add the bit to their XTS/XTL flashcode. It's not anything secret nor special. More anti-scanner than anything. Definitely not a "controlled technology". You make it sound like ADP is CCI/Type1.

A graphics workstation cracked RC4 (ADP) in 8 days. In 1996. Don't think ADP/RC4 is secure against someone with the means, money, and determination. Like I said, it's more an anti-scanner technology.

Also, there are no implementations of 3DES as judoka claims. The P25 standard supports DES-OFB (and has from the beginning), and I believe they've added AES-256 recently.

Post by Pj » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:07 am

AES is available to anyone in the USA. Its used in computer software, radios, whatever.

DES-OFB is also available.

ADP is software or hardware based depending on the option bought.

DVP-32bit key
ADP-40bit key
DES-56bit key
AES-256bit key

You also may want to look at:
http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=55693

judoka · Post by **judoka** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:12 pm

In what sense do you mean that ADP is project 25 compatible ?

As far as I know it isn't mentioned anywhere in the current standards so it looks like a proprietary extension.

Post by Pj » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:56 pm

ADP only works in the digital (IMBE/P25) mode. Currently it is a Motorola only offering, but will work in all their digital systems.

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:15 pm

tvsjr wrote: Also, there are no implementations of 3DES as judoka claims. The P25 standard supports DES-OFB (and has from the beginning), and I believe they've added AES-256 recently.

triple DES was mentioned at the MTUG meeting last week. As soon as the slides are up on MOL I'll post what was 3 DES. (I had a hangover and wasn't paying attention)

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:23 pm

Just found it from the May meeting.
3-des is available on the XTS2500 release.
It can't be a typo unless the slide was copied from May and used last Sunday.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:27 pm

Bruce1807 wrote:Just found it from the May meeting.
3-des is available on the XTS2500 release.
It can't be a typo unless the slide was copied from May and used last Sunday.

I'd be very surprised. 3DES is computationally expensive to implement compared to AES and is a more vulnerable algorithm (since a break in 1DES would likely constitute a break in 3DES as well). In the systems I deal with (VPN concentrators, computer-based crypto), AES is largely the favorite these days. New implementations of 3DES are few and far between.

Unless, the NSA really managed to convince the scientists to stick a back door into Rijndael...

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:05 am

Seeing as they're not Americans, I doubt they'd be caving in to the demands of a foreign government like that.

3DES can be used in a couple of different keying modes, which have different strengths. Introducing it now is a stupid idea anyway.

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:48 am

I tend to agree unless it is for non P25 applications only or export only

Post by **batdude** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:34 am

it should be noted that ADP is only compatible with non-trunked i.e "conventional" APCO 25 transmissions

it's not compatible with analog FM or trunking

doug

zulu · Post by **zulu** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:41 pm

Anyone got a codeplug for a XTS3000 mod 3, s band that has a flashcode with IMBE and this ADP on it that i can try it out?
Sounds cool.

Cheers in advance.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:51 am

It's not available for the XTS3000 or older radios.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:53 am

Bruce1807 wrote:I tend to agree unless it is for non P25 applications only or export only

AES didn't originate in the US in the first place, so that wouldn't matter.

judoka · Post by **judoka** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:42 pm

Country of origin doesn't seem to matter. Pretty much everywhere in the world signed up to an agreement not to export "strong crypto" to the "bad guys". That more or less means that anything containing AES has to have a lot of paperwork if it wants to go anywhere,

I am not saying that you can't ship it, just that you have to jump through the hoops and act nice and polite.

Post by **batdude** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:48 pm

oh, i learned something new the other day

when you hear SALES PEOPLE talking about "TRIPLE DES" or "3DES"...........

do you know what they are talking about????

they mean any module that can do: DES, DES-XL and DES-OFB

i.e. = TRIPLE DES

it's not what everyone else is thinking..... i.e. 3des

doug

Fuel4300 · Post by **Fuel4300** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:40 pm

On a related note: when programming a radio with both ADP (software) and DES-OFB hardware it looks like you are forced to choose one or the other for the entire radio.

What I would like to do would be have some channels strapped to DES-OFB and other to ADP - which seems perfectly reasonable considering the radio also is flashed with multikey.

Is this possible?

-Mike

Post by Pj » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:13 pm

Um, good question. I remember seeing something about this, I'll look tonight at work. Otherwise, there would be no point in having the combo modules.

Chances are you would have to enable the CKR management and all the fun that is.

Software ADP and hardware DES might be a problem, but I have never looked into it (speculating here).

Post by **batdude** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:30 pm

just think of the mess of a multi-multi mode module

i.e.

AES, ADP and "triple-DES"

yes, it exists!

I always wondered why in the multi-key drill down menus you couldn't select the encryption type at the same time.....

HELLO MOTO?

doug

RailroadTech · Post by **RailroadTech** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:32 am

It is my understanding ADP is low level software encryption. Which can be ordered with Astro subscribers because they have the required DSP.

If you have hardware encryption DES-OFB or AES I can not see any reason you need ADP.

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:18 pm

is AES-256 supported over analog trunked or just analog conventional channels?

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:19 pm

batdude wrote:just think of the mess of a multi-multi mode module

i.e.

AES, ADP and "triple-DES"

yes, it exists!

I always wondered why in the multi-key drill down menus you couldn't select the encryption type at the same time.....

HELLO MOTO?

doug

yes, this is rediculous. closest they ever came to that is allowing you to check XL or not. Its like you have to guess what the radio is using with a multicipher module.