Batboard

A friend of mine recently aquired a pair of secure-capable Sabers, and a keyloader for them. My first question is regarding the radios themselves, the other is in regards to the KVL.

First, at least on of the radios, I don't know about the other, has a 16 position channel switch in it. What's the deal with that? Can the positions above channel 12 be used for anything? The escution only has up to channel 12 marked. It is also the securenet top, if that matters.

Second, I need to make a power adapter for the KVL. I think the KVL is a T3020BX, but I am not sure. I'm making that ID by looking at pics in the gallery on Batlabs, as I don't have the KVL in front of me right now. Anyway, the battery is toast, and I can't see it being worth buying a new battery. My question is, how close would the supply voltage have to be to the 7.5 volts the battery is rated for? Would I have any problems using a 9 volt supply with it? 8 volt? How much current will the KVL draw? Also, would this KVL be compatible with a secure-capable Syntor X9000?

Hi,
It sounds like someone removed the channel select knob and didn't replace the stop. There is a small metal piece that goes on there that makes the knob stop at 12. Not a big deal.
As far as the keyloader, it will load any radio with a DES module in it, if you have the correct cables. As far as the battery for it, I would pony up the dough and buy a correct battery for it. If you use an adapter and take power off of it for a while, not sure how long it takes, but you will lose your keys. I have a 3020 with a really crappy battery and if I don't charge it once a week I lose my keys. A pain because then you have to re-key all the radios.

Good luck and take care,
Lowry K4RUR

K4RUR wrote:I have a 3020 with a really crappy battery and if I don't charge it once a week I lose my keys. A pain because then you have to re-key all the radios.

So in other words, you're saying that the keys I've loaded would be erased from the KVL's memory? What does that have to do with the radio? Why would I have to re-key the radio if the KVL lost it's memory? Can't I just keep a paper log of the keys, and use that if the radio ever needs reloading? Or are you just saying that it's a pain to have to re-enter a lot of keys into the keyloader every time I use it? If that's your concern, it would only be used with three radios; the two Sabers, and my X9000, with two different keys. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, as I'm not familiar with securenet.

Or your sabers could actually be system sabers which do have 16 channels.

Someone may have put a regular saber case on them which I've done the opposite to.

I have replaced my regular saber cases with sys-saber cases as they were freebies and brand new and work just the same as a regular saber case does.

On your KVL just go out and buy an alexander H5860 battery, the KVL's with the LED display draw between 200 to 250 mA depending on the model.

If you really want to go the regulator route then anything between 7.5 to 8.35 volts is fine, typical NiCad range.

Settle for 8 volts with a 500 mA regulator and you'll be fine.


Mike

The reason I said that is that I am ate up with the dumb ass sometimes and I take the battery off of the radio with it on and it kills the key. Writing it down is a good idea, but I would lose where I wrote it down. And the Alexander batts aren't that much dough, by the time you build the adapter and all that crap. If you need a rapid charger for a keyloader battery, I have one I'll send you for the price of shipping it.


Take care,
Lowry K4RUR

if you turn the saber off and then change the battery within 30 seconds you will retain the key. If you remove the battery with the radios power switch on the key is immediately erased.


Mike

If your channel selector is numbered 1.3.5.7 up to 16 channels, it's a Systems Saber and MUST be programmed with Systems Saber RSS.

If the channels are numbered 1-12 sequentially, it's a standard Saber.

As for the keyloader, the T3020BX will not load DES/DES-XL UNLESS it has been upgraded to the T3011DX firmware.

Systems Sabers are multikey radios and capable of key retention unlike standard Sabers, where once the battery is removed, you have 30 seconds to swap batteries, or the key is erased, unless you left the radio 'ON' then the key is wiped the moment the battery is removed.

Note that specific secure modules do NOT work in Systems Sabers, such as the NTN4714, NTN4712 or NTN4713.
These modules are NON smartnet modules and most do NOT function in a Systems Saber.

The NTN5833, NTN5835 and just about all smartnet modules should work in the Systems Sabers, but you do have to test them to see if the radio powers up with the modules installed as many do not.

Also, most multikey AND OTAR modules will work in the Systems Sabers, whereas OTAR modules do NOT work in standard Sabers due to the fact the standard Sabers are not capable of OTAR or multikey formats.

AEC wrote:If your channel selector is numbered 1.3.5.7 up to 16 channels, it's a Systems Saber and MUST be programmed with Systems Saber RSS.

If the channels are numbered 1-12 sequentially, it's a standard Saber.

As for the keyloader, the T3020BX will not load DES/DES-XL UNLESS it has been upgraded to the T3011DX firmware.

Ernest, it's numbered 1-12 sequentially, but that might not mean anything if it's been recased. One thing I did notice is that the mark on the knob doesn't line up properly with the numbers. The knob is just to the right of the '1' when ancually in the channel 1 position, and lined up with the 1 when in channel 2. Interesting things to think about, though. I'll have to play with them later, as their owner has them right now, not me.

As for the KVL, I'm not sure exactly what model it is, I just guessed the model from the picture in the Batlabs Gallery. It should be compatible, as it is the KVL used with these radios by their original owner.

Thanks for the info everyone!

One other method to determine for certain, what model radio it is, is to look at the memory/display board.

If there is a silver shield over the board, and has a long flex cable, it will be a Systems Saber, as standard Sabers do not have a shield over the display/memory board.

All versions of Systems Sabers utilize shielded display/memory boards to keep light and RF out of the EPROM that's on that board.

Recased or not, if the radio is labeled 1-12 channels, it's a standard Saber.

As far as your KVL goes, take a look under the hood and see what hybrid is inside you'll be at least able to determine format. A lot of the KVL's look alike but do different formats.

OK, a little more info. My friend brought the radios and KVL to me last night. The KVL is a model #T3014CX, and the label says it is a DVP-XL KVL. How about some instructions for how to use this beast? As I think I stated above, I have no experiance with any kind of encryption system.

kf4sqb wrote:OK, a little more info. My friend brought the radios and KVL to me last night. The KVL is a model #T3014CX, and the label says it is a DVP-XL KVL. How about some instructions for how to use this beast? As I think I stated above, I have no experiance with any kind of encryption system.

I believe the battery for the keyloader is the same as the old mx-300 series. I have seen them cheap NOS on Ebay.

It doesn't matter what model the keyloader is as long as it is compatible with the modules in your radios, which should be the case if they were purchased or used as a set. You will know when you attempt to load the first key, it will either fail or give you the cool squeel as the key loads.

You can apply temporary power to the kvl and it will load keys fine. As you only have two radios in the fleet you don't have to worry about losing keys, just load both radios with a new key any time you lose one. This is more of a problem as you add radios to the fleet.

There are a couple of very good encryption articles on this site, there you find the insructions on how to load keys and how to id the modules and KVLs.

OK, another question. When I try to work on the codeplug for the radio, model# H43QXN7139CN, it tells me that I only have the capability for 8 PL tones, but that I have 14 entered. How the heck does Motorola count the PLs in this thing? I only have 8 different tones entered, and the total number of "places" a tone is used is 18 (transmit and receive on 9 of the 12 channels). What gives? How do I determine how many PLs I have? Is there any way around this? If it makes any difference, one of the channels uses a split PL. Help!