Batboard

read this:


http://proventough.com/pdf/Motorola_Bat ... _Paper.pdf




i think you get what you pay for.


seems to me that since they hired an outside independent lab.... must have been pretty fair.

looks like:

Honeywell is junk

W&W is junk

Power Products is junk

and

Batteryzone is junk



HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM



i'll be keeping my RNN4006's handy...




doug

Didn't someone post recently that his new Motorola batteries had Chinese cells in them? If so, those are not the same as the ones described in the test.

Jeff

i have some RNN4006's with "chinese" cells

and some with "japanese" cells

no apparent difference that i can tell operationally....


i think the key that M is trying to get to is that it's the physical construction and build quality/testing that makes their battery better than the other crap that's out there



doug

I could have told you W&W was junk.. Had one of their batteries and chargers blow up, literally, the cells popping sounding like shotgun blasts.

Batteryzone however.. hmm, never had any problem with them.

I have to agree with the robot man, W&W is garbage.

Battery Zone has good products, and I still get excellent life from an NTN4595 pack that's from may of 1999.

Can't be junk if the battery is still providing service for SEVEN YEARS can it??

I've had W&W batteries that were dead within months as well as days of being 'new', that tells me something is wrong with the cells they use, or the manner in which they are charged with their chargers to cause their batteries to die so quickly.

I also get excellent use and life from ALL ot the NABC packs I have as well.
And not a single bad pack has been noticed from this Mfr. either, so it appears that Circle-M is again trying to BS the customers/consumers that 'only' 'genuine' Circle-M batteries are worth the money.

Panasonic has had excellent cells for years, and I see no reason to change if they are still producing top quality cells for even the OEM sector.

I know I would NEVER waste money on anything W&W labeled, it's too shaky to rely upon, and is just throwing good money away.

Too bad they don't take the hint and start over with different suppliers and get a good reputation instead of the bad one they have currently.

Not to mention that /\/\ pre-sorts cells and will actually guarantee their initial capacity to be equal or greater than described

the problem with non-OEM packs isn't the cells, many of them use the SAME Panasonic or Sanyo Energy cells as the OEM. Problem is with the plastic mold of the aftermarket battery, and the overall construction. The aftermarket packs don't fit right, the plastic is often ligther and doesn't last, and they don't use the same HQ flex and shock absorbers that genuine Motorola packs do.

The independent tests prove that Motorola OEM packs rule in this area.

who gives a damn how good the cells are if they're in some flimsy POS housing and won't stay on the radio?

I had a bunch of BZ packs for EFJ radios and on some of them it sounded like a kids rattle when shaken. Didn't appear the cells were secure inside the pack. BoZo batteries in my opinion.

MTS2000des wrote:the problem with non-OEM packs isn't the cells, many of them use the SAME Panasonic or Sanyo Energy cells as the OEM. Problem is with the plastic mold of the aftermarket battery, and the overall construction. The aftermarket packs don't fit right, the plastic is often ligther and doesn't last, and they don't use the same HQ flex and shock absorbers that genuine Motorola packs do.

The independent tests prove that Motorola OEM packs rule in this area.

who gives a damn how good the cells are if they're in some flimsy POS housing and won't stay on the radio?

To each his own. I'll sell OEM just the same. Just nice to have options.

isn't all this old news now? I could recall talking about this a few months ago, if that.

-Josh

Baker@BZ wrote: [/quote] Well I can only tell you that the radio's and the batteries are ran through a laser scanner and test fitted. So if they dont fit its an old battery and if you are you trying to use a battery for more than 18 months than you obviously dont have a job where a radio is mission critical. This technology makes it alot easier to make the mold for the plastic. I really wonder if anyone here has ever seen how batteries are made. You guys are hilarious.[/quote]

'So if they don't fit it's an old battery' What's this supposed to mean ? Your batteries change dimensions over time ? What does mission critical have to do with anything, you sell for mission critical applications only ?
And yes, some 'mission critical' users use batteries for more than 18 mos.
My agency uses capacity testing which is far more reliable than putting a time limit on a battery.

Josh wrote:isn't all this old news now?

Apparently not to Baker

There should be no debate on this... After market batteries are crap!! If you want quality, you're going to have to insist on Motorola. Use of non oem for critical use is next to suicidal!

W W claims they use sanyo cells. ********, I cracked open a few and they had some china crap cells. Sanyo brands their batteries with their name.

I confronted the owner of W & W about not finding Sanyo calls in their packs. He could only come up with that the "Sanyo" printing must have worn off when they assembled the pak. I said, "you expect me to believe that"? He shrugged his shoulders and walked away. (this was 2 years ago at Dayton Hamfest). Seeing as he was being less than honest, I stuck around and talked as many people out of buying battery paks from W W. Also most W W paks do not fit properly - too tight or too loose or extra tabs.

...Josh, we may have brought up this topic before, but with the newly released PDF that Doug posted, we now have proof basically opening this whole topic again with verifiable proof for discussion.

Baker@bz wrote:

MTS2000des wrote:the problem with non-OEM packs isn't the cells, many of them use the SAME Panasonic or Sanyo Energy cells as the OEM. Problem is with the plastic mold of the aftermarket battery, and the overall construction. The aftermarket packs don't fit right, the plastic is often ligther and doesn't last, and they don't use the same HQ flex and shock absorbers that genuine Motorola packs do.

The independent tests prove that Motorola OEM packs rule in this area.

who gives a damn how good the cells are if they're in some flimsy POS housing and won't stay on the radio?

Well I can only tell you that the radio's and the batteries are ran through a laser scanner and test fitted. So if they dont fit its an old battery and if you are you trying to use a battery for more than 18 months than you obviously dont have a job where a radio is mission critical. This technology makes it alot easier to make the mold for the plastic. I really wonder if anyone here has ever seen how batteries are made. You guys are hilarious.

try again. I have Motorola OEM packs for my Jedi's that have 01 and 02 date codes. They analyze at 99.8, 102.2 and 97.5 percent capacity on my analyzer. They fit and function perfectly.

I have two off brand crap packs, one of them is for my XTS3000...great, it's got 3ah NiMH cells in it. so what, it's brand new came from another cheap ass battery company.."ProStar"...didn't fit out of the box, the radui resets. So guess what, I tossed it. Went and bought an OEM Moto Impres battery, works everytime. And you can definately see the difference in plastic when you compare the two side by side. The Moto OEM is clearly built better.

Again, if it doesn't fit and hold up it's a POS. doesn't matter who made the cells. welcome to the board newbie. Nice way to meet folks...

http://proventough.com/#
of course you can just be slack and watch the video

RadioSouth wrote: 'So if they don't fit it's an old battery' What's this supposed to mean ? Your batteries change dimensions over time ?

HAHHAHAAHHA NICE!

best.reply.ever!

i have had some cell problems with some of my Battery Zone stuff and some Case problems it has been hit or miss with them. on p100 they seem to snap when droppesd (they are good Rail Road Radio)


i found that Muliplyers to be Damn good as the moto

Great. NOW you tell me.
I just spent $20 on a W&W battery for my HT220.
Sure enough the sloppy mold ridges on the outside of the plastic need trimmed with an Xacto knife, although at least at first charge, the capacity seems okay.
I am keeping the receipt for the whole 15 month warranty, purchased yesterday at the Gaithersburg Hamfest.
We shall see.

WA3VJB wrote:Great. NOW you tell me.
I just spent $20 on a W&W battery for my HT220.
Sure enough the sloppy mold ridges on the outside of the plastic need trimmed with an Xacto knife, although at least at first charge, the capacity seems okay.
I am keeping the receipt for the whole 15 month warranty, purchased yesterday at the Gaithersburg Hamfest.
We shall see.

Unreal that they don't even fit as an internal type battery. Guess it's good they don't make 'D' cells, might not fit in the flashlight.
We've brought up batteries many times in the past and it appears OEM and Multiplier have been the only consistent performers. (Though the Chinese made OEM packs haven't ben made long enough to see how they'll hold up long term).

W&W is Wobbly & Wobbly.. lol.. I don't remember who coined that phrase on here a while back but it's true for the most part..

As for MTS2000des's opinon on the matter.. No offense, but you sound like the Motorola dealers i have had to deal with before, always try to push their overpriced accessories on me.

For a mission critical application where lives are at risk i would recommend an OEM battery, but not because of quality, but because there is someone with a significant amount of money standing behind the pack if it fails in such a way that it puts lives in danger and its the manufacturers fault.

But, for my needs a few cheapos from BZ or other producers work just fine. If they fit good, and test good, i'll use them.

Now if Motorola would put real world prices on their batteries like the aftermarket then i probably would buy them. But i have had Genesis series batteries that were OEM and they died faster than the aftermarket replacements. So it doesn't really matter in my opinion who is better than whom. As another member on here once said about batteries. "enough of the technical masturbation and move on"... Everyone has an opinion, its real world experience that counts.

Enough said..

I guess the old addage applies..... YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR..


My opinion is that M wants to promote their superiority over other brands is that its actually hurting their bottom line. Municipal bean counters and purchasing people who dont actually use the radios can't immagine paying $100+ for a battery they can buy 3 of for the same radio at $ 100.

Ive been on both ends of this as a user and as the guy justifying to the money handlers why I want to spend 3X as much. Ive bought genuine Motorola and aftermarket. Ive had good luck with Alexander at about half the price. The only time I can get genuine Motorola is when I get it on contract. If I have to buy a battery for an oddball one of radio. I buy Someone else. Its about the Money to me and a budget.

Multiplier... That's the other one I was trying to think of in the other thread. We were buying Multiplier's and they were running as good as the M one's. One of the Sgt's (who thinks every dollar of the depts is his) started buying BZ batteries since they were cheaper (he's reasoning was... they look the same so they must be the same!).

The BZ ones were lasting about 1/2 of the Multiplier ones, and the M's were just a tad more then the Multipliers. These batteries were cycled thru every other shift and saw a lot of use.

When the XTS3k's came in, they stuck with the M batteries. I still have a 1997 multipler battery that rates around 75%.

W-W batteries are REAL junk. I had 50% fail in the first month!
I got 4 of different capacities for System Sabers and what a waist of money.
I did find a good use for them..... door stops and paper weights.....

Stick with M's and Mulitpliers and be happy.

Ken

n7qqu wrote:W-W batteries are REAL junk. I had 50% fail in the first month!
I got 4 of different capacities for System Sabers and what a waist of money.
I did find a good use for them..... door stops and paper weights.....

Stick with M's and Mulitpliers and be happy.

Ken

About the only thing W&W batteries are good for!

I got pictures of one that blew up, the battery was in one of their Master Charger's, so i sent an email to complain and they never did respond to that. I included pictures showing the aftermath!

Is the company "Alexander" still around supplying batteries for the commercial two-way market?

Many years ago when I got my first HT220 I bought one of their batteries and it worked fine, for many years, and was manufactured correctly (see my post here about the poorly fitting W&W unit, yesterday).

I think they were in Kansas somewhere. I just did a websearch and didn't find any direct website. Whatever happened.

Did find this -- but no product guide nor website.

ALEXANDER BATTERIES, P.O. Box 1508,

Mason City, IA 50401. Tel: (515)423-8955;

FAX: (515)423-1644; Toll Free:

(800)247-1821

kb0nly wrote: About the only thing W&W batteries are good for!

I got pictures of one that blew up, the battery was in one of their Master Charger's, so i sent an email to complain and they never did respond to that. I included pictures showing the aftermath!

Please, post them on here! I'd love to see, as I'm sure others would.

This happened about a year ago, i bought a Master Charger and a new battery pack from W&W for one of my ham rigs, an Alinco if i remember right. Anyway..

I put the battery in the charger and the light came on, all was well and so i left it alone while doing some other stuff around the house, but i kept coming back to check on it. Then i got on the phone and about halfway through my conversation i started smelling something funky so i got off the phone quick and went to find the source of the smell. To my horror there was a jet of smoke or other debris coming from the top of the battery, it looked liked a mini old faithful.

The battery was swollen to the point that it wouldn't come out of the charger, i know because i put on some heavy leather gloves after unplugging the charger right away, hoping to toss the battery outside or in a metal garbage can next to the house to prevent any further damage. But i ended up grabbing the whole charger and running outside, i only got just outside the door before the first explosion that popped the battery out of the charger and into the air. It looked like a bouncing betty, any military buffs should know what that is, and then in mid air another cell exploded and the case split open as it is shown in the picture.

After it landed on the ground the remaining cells popped one by one. The explosions were so loud, sounded like someone firing off a shotgun, that one of me neighbors reported me for playing with some explosive device in front of my house! Well after the explosions were done and i was sitting trying to collect myself law enforcement arrived, luckily i knew the officer, and he inspected the aftermath. He was shocked that a battery could do that, but i showed him the receipts for the battery and charger that i just received that day and that it was not some improvised munition that i was testing.. lol

These pictures were taken after collecting what i could find, some of the batteries exploded so violently that i only found what looked like confetti or powdered metal. You can see that ONE cell avoided explosion, this was probably due to being blown outward where it didn't short out and cooled off before exploding.









In the last two pictures you can see the top half of the charger and the crap that was melted into the surface of the plastic, and the bottom view of the top half you can see the plastic is warped and wrinkled from the violent expansion and ultimate explosion of the battery.

If i see a battery or charger made by W&W it WILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN MY HOME! Last thing i need is a house fire or explosion on the work bench.

you should forward your documentation to the consumer products safety commission, especilally if the manufacturer isn't bothering to respond.

never heard of a Motorola OEM battery exploding like that have you?

I haven't heard of a Moto battery doing this no, usually they just end up shorted internally and won't take a charge.

This one however was not for a Moto radio so thats not the point.

kb0nly wrote:This one however was not for a Moto radio so thats not the point.

Actually, it is the point.

Motorola batteries don't explode because they are well-designed and well-built.

Motorola builds batteries for several competitors as well, so you can have the quality that is Motorola despite the radio being built by ICOM, MA/COM, Kenwood and so on

Just to put my $.02 in Im with a vol. fire dept. carry an ht1000 and oem batteries usually last 1 to 1.5 years. BZ that the county buys for us only last 5 to 6 months.

Well Moto doesn't make batteries for any of my current equipment.. But then i couldn't afford a Moto battery anyway, two kids and loan payments, i would have to take out a small loan to buy another battery.. LOL

Alexander Batteries are still around, now Alexander Technologies. Same address and phone number. I've been ordering batteries from them for years, mostly for Bendix King and Motorola. Great prices and seem to last well beyond the warranty of 18 months. Half the cost of Honeywell and Motorola.

Good to hear about Alexander. They were the first "non" Motorola battery I trusted in the cherished HT220, and the battery never let me down. I may go back to them if Motorola intends to keep bringing batteries in from communist China.

WA3VJB wrote: I may go back to them if Motorola intends to keep bringing batteries in from communist China.

You buy your batteries based on politics rather than quality?

Hey guys,

Maybe you should try Multiplier batteries, They seem to work better than most after market batteries and their prices are reasonable.

They have a perfect fit on most Motorola radios and they last far longer than their batteries do.

At least with Multiplier batteries you won't have to take out a second mortgage as you would with Motorola and some of these other
companies.

As far as W&W, I won't go there....

MRFLASHPORT wrote:Hey guys,

Maybe you should try Multiplier batteries, They seem to work better than most after market batteries


they last far longer than their batteries do.

BULL$HIT !!! evidently you didn't read the white paper.

Which only confirmed what some of my customers already know.
That Multiplier batteries are friggin crap - you get what you pay for.
The little phuckers only last < 7 months under heavy usage.

What application are you using them for hamsexy chatting?
If so, then reliability is not an issue, and Multiplier should be
selling to the hamradio market. Not passing off their garbage
as suitable for mission critical/life safety applications.

Read the white paper dude, it confirms the field findings

A BIT much there 3 of 2. I take it from were it comes, a company with such a vested interest doing the test doesn't exactly ring of credibility. I've had luck with both OEM and Multiplier and Multipliers warranty is 50% longer on plain old Nicads. (If you're only getting 7 mos. return them for replacement, they're covered for 18 mos.)

FYI, Motorola warranties its premium NiCad batteries (read: just about every battery except Impres) for 18 months on capacity and 24 months on workmaship.

Also, I don't see Multiplier testing its batteries up against the competition.

Lastly, it wasn't Motorola that conducted the tests.

OK, so now we have Nicads at 12 mos. 'Premium Nicads' at 18 mos. and Impres Nicads at 24 mos

As for 'The White Paper' I guess when I read 'We put the most popular batteries to the test' and 'We've tested hundreds of batteries' I assumed 'we' was the firm making the claim. I have a few problems with the document:

1- Testing done by an independent/outside 'service' ?
I've read laboratory testing before and the name of the lab was always
listed, they don't even say it was done by a lab.
2- Lab reports I've read have always listed 'exactly'what was tested,
which batteries do these tests cover ?
3- Who supplied the competitor samples ? Were these in competitors
hands prior to testing ?

Lotsa $$ at stake with shoddy documentation in my opinion.

I can answer question 3.
Motorola did not even supply their own batteries
The indepent tester purchased the batteries from a variety of sources.

3-of-2-unimatrix-1,

I use an Astro Saber III, I have 3 M459H 2700 mHA Batteries and they are lasting me about a good 24hrs and I talk on my radio a good part of the day.

I have been using Multiplier for the last 5 years and have had no problems with any of the batteries that I have purchased.

Bruce1807 wrote:

WA3VJB wrote: I may go back to them if Motorola intends to keep bringing batteries in from communist China.

You buy your batteries based on politics rather than quality?

Do you really think it's only about politics?
I'll be glad to discuss this with you as PM.