Batboard

Can anyone tell me what the main difference(s) is between the HT and the EX radios?

We need them for a university public safety department (soon to become a police department) that uses 2 UHF repeaters, and a few simplex channels. The officers using them will mostly be student officers on 4 hour shifts. They also need to be able to handle major events with heavy use. These radios will probably used around 16 hours a day, every day. We are thinking about using QC2 paging and MDC1200 id and emergency in the future, possibly even now depending on budget. DTMF is also used on the system, so it would be nice (but not required) if the radios could encode that too.

We currently have a bunch of Icom, a mix of 12 year old radius thingies, and some vertex. They are all at the end of their useful life, and a recent brownout cooked some of our already exhausted supply. We also had a CPI tone remote, but that started melting during said power hiccup… Any recommendations for a cheap 1-ch tone remote?

Oooh, and it would be SWEET if we could do the talk-permit tone.

I need advice from a tech, not a salesman.

The EX-series is a "pocket radio"... good for a chief who doesn't need to talk much, but not a great first-tier radio. The HT-series is better suited, but fairly expensive for what you get. Also, some have not had the best luck with ruggedness out of the Waris series portables.

You will definitely want at least an HT1250, for the display.

You might also consider Kenwood's new radios... TK3180s with the add-on MDC board would work perfect for you, be considerably cheaper, and you can actually buy the software (ProRadio CPS is "protected"... good luck obtaining a copy from Moto).

The EX radios are not a bad radio, they hold up just as well as the ht1250's but it comes down to a personal decision. The ex600xls can do more than 16 channels without changing zones also. I have a Kenwood radio in my car, and it is great, however if you want MDC, you need a Motorola, add on boards just don't cut it.

Your situation sounds similar to ours here at the University.

We have rack chargers of HT750 radios, around 30 in total and 3 repeaters as well as a talk-around programmed.

The primary repeater is the CDR750, everything is 12.5khz and it works fantastic.

The radios are used from 7am-3am 5 days a week, in a similar fashion with 4-hour shift student employees.

They've been in service here for two years and still going strong, batteries are just starting to get a little weak because the radios sit in the charger when not in use and get recharged after every shift. Rarely are all of them used at the same time, so there are always radios ready to go.

We don't use any signalling format, however the radios are capable of it, mostly because it's not needed. The peopel here are required to use the radios professionally or lose thier radio priveleges and/or job as all of the repeatered stuff is monitored and recorded by police dispatch.

There are two tone-remotes directly connected to the repeater itself of the MC1000 type, one is in the back office, the other in police dispatch.

FWIW, it does the job, no frills.

-Josh

If you don't require displays in the portables, take a look at the Motorola PR860. Almost physically identical to the XTS2500, but with the HT750-style accessory connector. They have 16-channel capacity by default, and come standard with 2000mAH Lithium-Ion Impres battery & Impres charger...all for less than a 4-channel HT750. Oh yeah, they do MDC PTT-ID as well.

If you need displays in the portables, then I'd go with the HT1250 over the EX600, but that's a personal preference. There's also the PR400, but I don't know the pricing/packaging of those...I'd hazard a guess they're less expensive than the HT/EX units...but they don't appear to have MDC alias capability.

For base station/mobiles, the CM300 might work for you, although like the PR400 it doesn't do MDC aliasing. I'd recommend the CDM1550LS+ "6AN" model, as it'll do everything you need, and even has MDC emergency receive capabilities.

Todd

For your remotes, we have had problems with the mc1000's being very static sensitive, and in my opinion the cpi remotes sound better.

Here’s some more information about our system:

The primary DPS repeater is a MSF5000 with phone patch. (we don’t have a dispatcher 24/7)

1 maintenance repeater with a peoplefinder thing as the base.

Talkaround for the 2 channels above

Simplex: food service, alumni, grounds, housing and residential life, and ‘private.’

We currently have an icom that won’t hold a charge sitting on the dispatcher desk for our ‘base’ with a desk mic rigged to it. I'll admit it's my invention, very hamsexy.

Our thought is to use qc2 for alerting officers if they are on a special assignment. An example is one of our officers teaches a class, sometimes while on duty. We could just tone him if needed, and not disturb the class the rest of the time.

We really want the emergency button, but are unsure if we can afford the base (or the radios for that matter). If we implement this, does anything need to happen to the repeater or is it all contained in the remote?

We were also thinking about battery conditioners, since they often get only 4 hours of use and go back on the charger. Does this matter with the newer batteries? If it does, are conditioners made for all these models? Even if not, we really want a bank charger.

We have to use our local Motorola shop. The university has a contract with them. Besides, there aren’t very many radio dealers to go to in the UP of Michigan.

We currently have 4 ht1250s. They don’t seem to work that great (DTMF sometimes won’t shut off phone patch, buttons falling off, loose batteries). It this common, or do we just have a bad batch of radios?

Kenwood TK3180 !

ffexpCP wrote: Our thought is to use qc2 for alerting officers if they are on a special assignment. An example is one of our officers teaches a class, sometimes while on duty. We could just tone him if needed, and not disturb the class the rest of the time.

The PR860 will do that, although you haven't mentioned whether you require the portables to have a display or not (for showing MDC alias', etc).

ffexpCP wrote: We really want the emergency button, but are unsure if we can afford the base (or the radios for that matter). If we implement this, does anything need to happen to the repeater or is it all contained in the remote?

The repeater doesn't have to be touched. You may have to play with the MDC timing parameters in the field radios to ensure the data gets through properly if there's any sort of 'lag time' during repeater key-up.

ffexpCP wrote: We were also thinking about battery conditioners, since they often get only 4 hours of use and go back on the charger. Does this matter with the newer batteries? If it does, are conditioners made for all these models? Even if not, we really want a bank charger.

This is the perfect application for the Impres battery system...it automatically conditions the battery as needed. Comes standard with the PR860, can be ordered as an option for other models. Impres Rack chargers are available as well.

ffexpCP wrote: We currently have 4 ht1250s. They don’t seem to work that great (DTMF sometimes won’t shut off phone patch, buttons falling off, loose batteries). It this common, or do we just have a bad batch of radios?

Depending on the age of them, there could be issues. The first few years & early firmware versions had problems. They are much improved with new firmware & more robust housings.

Todd

As always Wavetar is right on the money. If you do not need screens the PR860 is an excellent radio that costs much less than the HT750. The IMPRES system is definately the way to go if you want to have regular maintenence on your batteries.

Thnigs you must consider:
Radios that have IMPRES batteries - HT750, HT1250, HT1550, PR860
Radios that DO NOT have IMPRES batteries - EX500, EX600, PR400, CP200

If you want radios to display the MDC1200 PTT ID then you can go with:
HT1250, HT1550, EX600, PR400 (remember that 2 of these don't have IMPRES batteries available)

Since you are using UHF any of the above radio will work great. Also all of the above models come standard with QCII decode, but only radios with screen have the encode.

Don't go with Kenwood, stay with what works the best - MOTOROLA!

You look to be only using 10 channels so you don't have to worry about switching zones on a 128ch HT1250.

I think the HT1250 will work the best for you if you'd like screens and the PR860 if you don't. Both these radios use same chargers, batteries, & all other acc.

The HT1250 will do the talk permit tone but I'm not sure about the PR860. The HT750 will do the talk permit tone as well.

"Don't go with Kenwood, stay with what works the best - MOTOROLA"


Um....with the garbage that Motorola has built in the past 5 years, I'll debate that point hard. Don't overlook Kenwood. Besides, you don't have to do firmware upgrades every fifteen minutes or worry about sending them to the depot every 6 months.

I would say with the options they want moto is the way to go. I'm not sure what kenwood has be building but I keep replacing them(kenwood) with Motorola and clients have never been happier.

I have seen customers that aren't happy with motorola, but once you sit down with them you are likely to find in 95% of the cases that it is user error, or the technician has not setup the equipment properly.

We have to buy from the local Motorola shop. The university has a contract, so if we want something else we're screwed.

It looks like we are leaning towards the ht1250. We have a few, and like them for the most part- we only have 1 that's really problematic.

I'm thrilled about the choice to get the ht1250s. I REALLY want displays. We had a city-wide blackout yesterday. Our dispatcher and some officers had some problems switching from main to talkaround. I figure with a display they can read what channel they are on, rather than twisting the knob to a number. I also like it for the battery meter, rf strength, blah, blah, blah…

We are also going to try to get the impres batteries and bank charger.

I think I'll have a hard time explaining the talk-permit tone to the shop. Any ideas how I can explain it to them and get the programming right the FIRST time? I've never speced radios out like this before. Any recommendations?

Vercomm wrote:I would say with the options they want moto is the way to go. I'm not sure what kenwood has be building but I keep replacing them(kenwood) with Motorola and clients have never been happier.

Ahh, so you know nothing about the radios, but you tear them down and say how much better Motorola is? You should quit drinking the Koolaid coming out of Schaumberg.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Motorola gear... of course, I primarily use Astro gear (high-tier stuff)... but you have to agree that the Waris stuff is, in general, crap, especially compared to the Moto stuff of yesteryear.

If you'd sit down and do an unbiased comparison of the Waris crap next to the Kenwood stuff, especially the current generation units like the TK-2180/7180, you might be surprised.

Feel free to compliment your Moto gear. Just don't tear down Kenwood when you know nothing about it.

ffexp - You might at least consider/demo an XTS1500 Model 1.5 or an XTS2500 Model 1.5 or Model 2. You'll pay more, but you'll get a significantly higher-quality radio, plus the option to go to digital in the future if required.

Batwings21 wrote:<snip> The ex600xls can do more than 16 channels without changing zones also. <snip>

Is this true? I was told otherwise by my local Motorola dealer when I first got my ex600xls (although they have a bad habit of messing up my radios when I take them in for programming changes)

Pat

The first generation of Ex600's had to change zones to get more than 16 channels, but when the EX600XLS came out is has a continuous turing channel knob just like the HT1550XLS. So with the EX600XLS you could have all 160channels in a single zone and just keep turing the channel selector.

As for all the kenwood comments, don't worry you guys I have faith that we can bring you back from the dark side of the force. (ha ha). Seriously though, my clients have never been happier. They love motorola and won't even consider going back to wood!(ha ha again). I guess you are able to keep your client happy with kenwood. So that's that.

tvsjr wrote:

Vercomm wrote:ffexp - You might at least consider/demo an XTS1500 Model 1.5 or an XTS2500 Model 1.5 or Model 2. You'll pay more, but you'll get a significantly higher-quality radio, plus the option to go to digital in the future if required.

Thanks for the idea, but I'm already pushing the budget. I'll have a hard enough time getting a ht model. I had a hard enough time just getting batteries for the radios we have now.

Anyway, if we go digital it will be on the state's 800 system.