More stupid MCS2000 ?'s - I DID IT! I FIXED IT!!! INSIDE -

Post by **Code3Response** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:05 pm

I ended up dumpingf the OLD CP back into the radio to get it workign again this morning. Anyway - Im waiting on my external speaker to arrive...is there any way to pump the audio from the radio to my hand mic ( HMN4049B )? Also, when I key up that mic, , it TX's for a 1/2 second or so, and then shuts itself off, and wont let me TX anymore on any channel... and wont let me do so until i power off/on the radio again. Ideas?

Also, still looking for a MCS2000 Remote Mount Kit F/S.

THanks!

Post by **batdude** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:14 pm

just some non-offending questions...

is this a "factory" radio?

has the flash been hacked/modified/feature set changed?

are you the original owner (i.e. customer) or did u get it second hand (like me)?

the symptoms you describe would tell me the radio has a fairly old firmware revision - some real quirks in your particular unit for sure.

sometimes, if you are keen - you can get the depot at M to upgrade the firmware for significantly less than the factory refurb ($275 i think on MCS's) - but if you radio has a flakey controller board (or RF board per your key up then unkey and won't TX...) then the depot is your best bet.

both of my MCS's (from joe barkley) ended up at the depot - they were just too "wierd" to use until the firmware was reloaded... money well spent, especially since my UHF 110w unit ended up with a brand new RF board since the original one would not generate 110w (only 91w) so....

it is interesting to note that the depot had no issues with the s/n model # or flashcode of the used units i got from joe - good product for a fair price in my opinion.

take the above with a grain of salt - might be your best bet.

doug

Post by **Code3Response** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:30 pm

I was beginning to wonder the same....

I got this Radio from Alex... with no Model number or serial number tags. Will the Depot take it?

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:55 pm

Hi:

I have comming ( I hope ) some sort
of Factory Test Jig for the MCS Series,
or it could be nothing more than a Remote
head, and Cable set...I can let you know
either way.

And, YES ! you can send it to the Factory
Depot without a Model / Serial tag, and
manytimes, [ It Will ] come back with one.

Just so long as the radio is not reported
miss-placed, lost , or Stolen ( MLS ), you
should have no problem ( Other than the Cost )

Your [MCS2000] Will cost you [ $330.00 ] Plus
Shipping / Handling

Depending on the problems, I might be able to
do it a bit cheaper.....

MS

Post by **Code3Response** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:31 pm

I think Alex has now blocked my IM's.... not positive though. Things seem a bit fishy though. ALready payed $500 for the raio, another $100 in accessories, I AINT GONNA PAY $330 FOR DEPOT CHARGES. Id pawn this sucker off on eBay as a as-is radio before Id do that. Alex....??????????

Any way to check firmware version in the RSS or thru the radio itself?

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:01 pm

Matt,

First off, if the radio is transmitting for a second and then stopping, you could very likely have an antenna issue. The radio will do that if it detects large amounts of reflected power. That is not a common issue with any version of firmware that I'm aware of.

Secondly, drop Alex an e-mail if you have a problem. He is always willing to help.

Post by **alex** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:55 pm

There's no problem with the MCS what so ever, used it on a repeater here several times, did a good job scanning severl channels I listen here...

Left my hands working fine.

If I do any "hacking" I do not sell the radio without explaining to who is getting it what was done so they UNDERSTAND what they are getting.

In the case, Code3Response got what he wanted, and I made it clear to him there were no tags, and offered to even have the serial number run that came up in software if he was concerned.

I have also spend a good 1/2 hour or so this afternoon helping him out with some questions on it...

Matt, Take some time, think about what your going through in the software - the radio works FINE, no problems.

-Alex

[ i was up working on taking down a tower, so I wasn't online.... Sorry to disappoint... ]

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:04 pm

HI:

Since you [ Dumped ] a Old Code Plug back into
the radio, there is a [ Very Good ] chance you may
have a Channel / Radio programed incorrectly

If you have the [ Time Out ] timer set to 1 or 2 seconds
that too could be where the problem is.

Also , as mentioned above, if you have a Antenna
Short, or something similar, that too will interupt
the transmitter to protect it from blowing up.

With respects to the Service Depot Charges, I was
only including that so you would have a reference
in the case of a emergency.

There are Many, Many Qualified Motorola Techs that
hang around this forum, and I am sure one could fix
it for less than the Depot.

Monty

Post by **Code3Response** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:36 pm

Alex says it was working fine, so I beleive him. The Antenna is a brand new COmtelco antenna I just bought for this unit. The CP I dumped in was the one that was in it when I received it from Alex - the first thing I did when I got the radio is saved the existing CP. Anyone know how to check the firmware version?

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:09 pm

Matt, you need to fall back and look at the problem one tiny step at a time.
First on the transmit problem, does the transmit indicator stay on? Are you using a proper dummy/test load on the transimtter, and or a calibrated wattmeter? What is the primary current doing on transmit?
Then we can take up step two.
As you isolate one small tiny step in the process of trouble shooting you radio, it is hard to not jump to a false conclusion. Trouble shooting todays radios is much harder than the old days, but one tiny step at a time is what I teach techs to do.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:39 am

Matt,
Did you put the antenna line through the window and close the window on it or through the door and slam the door on it crimping the wire??? Just a thought because I have seen many people case shorts in a magnetic antenna that way. Possibley the problem.

If there is a crimp take the antenna off the mag mount and use a volt-ohm meter and check for continuity between the center connector on the Mini-UHF and the center of the NMO mount, then if that is good check it to the large screw portion of the NMO mount, that is BAD.

Let us know

Post by **Code3Response** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:47 am

Im testing it outside with the Antenna on the vehicle where it would normally be. I thought voltage drop would be a problem, so I have it hooked to the vehicle with engine running. Still, it TX's for maybe a 1/2 second (with the light on) then the light turns off and it stops TXing. I thinking if its not the firmware or RF board... it possibly could be the mic ; but I dont think so.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:06 am

Matt,

Make sure the antenna is not within 8 inches of the roof rack if you have one, or if you are inside that it is not touching a metal garage door. These are simple things often overlooked.

Yosh · Post by **Yosh** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:44 am

I vote for a short between the center conductor and the outer braid on the coax. If you are using a pre-fabricated commercial mag mount, then you problem is most likely at the mini-UHF connector itself. As USPSS suggested, take a VOM and measure the resistance between the center pin and the threaded coupler. Chances are that you have a short.

If this is not the problem, and you have access to a VSWR meter, try measuring the match.

In my experience, it is the simple stuff that gets you every time. I have personally seen this behavior with that exact problem.

-Yosh

Post by **Code3Response** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:58 am

YOsh.... but shouldnt the radio TX even without an antenna connected? The light and everything should come on, just it wont produce a good signal due to no antenna being connected. With the antenna off, it does the same 1/2 second deal. Im stumped.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:05 am

Matt,
DO NOT transmit without an antenna, it does the radio NO GOOD.

Sounds like there is a problem either in the programming or the antenna cable/connector. Check these with a VOM,

Also maybe you can send your codeplug to someone on this board that know the MCS2000 radio for review.

Cat_Herder · Post by **Cat_Herder** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:21 am

Code3,
The personell here are telling you true. The MCS2K does not transmit when it detects a high VSWR at the antenna port. Verify that the mini-UHF connector is correctly attached. In some instances, I have seen where people have gone and installed a F59 connector on these radios (I can see the other techs here cringe...) and wonder why their repair bills are always so high. Look at the MCS2K as you would an elephant, and ask yourself, how would I eat this beast? Simple, one bite at a time. Remove the antenna from the magnetic mount (if you're using one...) and measure from the center of the MNO to the center of the Mini-UHF.This should show continuity, if not then determine whether it is at the Mini UHF end or at the NMO. Cut off the Mini-UHF if there is an open when measuring the center conductors. Then skin back enough coax to retest the center conductor. In some cases, when the NMO mount is installed at the factory, the assemblers will torque the heck out of this mounting arraingment, and can cause the center to pull up and away from the coax. When this happens, it'll cause sensitivity loss and in some cases (similar to yours) high VSWR and thereby causing the MCS2K to shut down. (I know this is a bit long winded, sorry gang...just that I do these checks almost automatically....)
mear...

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:07 am

Are you using a UHF mini adapter? Those things are worthless and do not make good contact with the feed line. I had the same problem with ALL of the radios I was testing only to find out that it was the adapter I was using. The radios will act the way yours is when no antenna is connected. It will start TXing, then will stop. Try a different antenna with the correct mini-UHF connector.
Scott

Post by **Code3Response** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:11 am

Scott, it has no "adapter" on it. It is a brand new, straight out of the box Comtelco UHF antenna with mini-UHF connector on it. Anone on here good with the MCS2000's I could send the codeplug to? Thanks!

Post by **Code3Response** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:41 am

Anyone want to be hired to check out the codeplug?

phrawg · Post by **phrawg** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:01 pm

I think you are diving in too fast in troubleshooting. Try a different antenna. The whole thing. Borrow someone elses, whatever.
Make sure to use an ohmeter and check shield end to end for cont.
then center end to end for cont. then shield to center for no short.
if all else fails take a piece of coax and strip the braid off one end and leave the center exposed (with the center insulation still there) for 1/4 wavelength and put a new mini pl on the other and use that to test.
will load the radio and radiate also. BTW What band is this. If 800 you may be puting something in there that the sysop has blocked and is shuting you down ! HHmmmmm..... Also try a short length of TESTED OK coax direct to a dummy load. What happens then ? time not now to panic but become very methodical in your work. do not assume anything is good just because new. Remember ASSUME broken down means
If we assume it can make an ASS of U & ME when the assumption
turns around and bites us. Been doing this for 30+ years and still sometimes have to use a voltmeter and probe an a+ line from the battery
to the trunk every foot or so with a pin to find the hidden break in it.
Just part of the troubleshooting experience and what eventually makes you good at it. hope this might help, Phrawg

Post by **Code3Response** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:05 pm

Phrawg and others:

I dont have any test equipment like that, extra connectors, etc. to be able to test this. Anyone on the board I could hire to troubleshoot this for me? I will pay for all shipping and parts and labor, etc as long as its not close to /\/\ prices

Let me know... Id rather let someone more expereinced then me to handle this. Thanks.

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:46 pm

I'm having a bit of a problem following your post, you had said that after you loaded the old "CP" it was working again. Does this mean that transmit came back or it still only transmits for a second or two. The reason I bring this up is you had an earlier post in which you were having some programing issues is it possible the two items are related to one another?
Good Day
Doug

2wayguy · Post by **2wayguy** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:53 pm

Matt,
send me the codeplug and I will check it out for you...

Haydn

Post by **Code3Response** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:55 pm

No Doug, the first problem was not related to the second problem.... I had the radio into the "radio keypad lock mode" in the RSS so when I was doen programming it, it said unprogrammed, and I couldnt get it to change becasue the keypad was locked. This problem isnt affected by that one at all. The problem is that it wont TX except for a 1/4 second or so and then stop TXing, and wont be able to TX anymore until power is cycled. Still looking for someone to send this off to. THanks!

Post by **wavetar** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:40 pm

What did you set the time out timer to? Go to your conventional personality & check which value (1,2,3 or 4) it is set to. Then check how many seconds have been set for that value in the "more options" under the "radio wide options". I have seen a few times when the values are changed from factory (1=infinite, 2=30, 3=60, 4=120 seconds), the radio will do what you describe. Otherwise, I cannot see it being a programming issue.

Todd

Post by **Code3Response** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:53 pm

Todd... I tried them both at the facotry (infinite, 30, 60, 90, etc) and then I set them all at 60 to try it... still nothing. Ill send you and 2wayguru the CP. Thanks!

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:16 pm

Just to be nice, I don't know the darndest thing about the MCS2000

, but I really think it sounds like a SWR problem.

Being that it only happens when Txing.

And, that a half-second or so that it actually Tx's is all the time that the radio needs to detect a high SWR.

I'd say, get another antenna, or try a new antenna connector on the coax.

Again, my bet is on some part of the transmit line.

And try to be gentle to Alex... he gets a lot of stress on his day job.

Just kidding.

Peace,

Post by **alex** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:30 pm

KC8RYW wrote: line.
And try to be gentle to Alex... he gets a lot of stress on his day job.

heh, well, I do have a addict... er... hobbie to support.

-Alex

ricciticcitembo · Post by **ricciticcitembo** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:35 am

has that radio been smoking yet?

Post by **Code3Response** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:56 am

Sorry to dissappoint you Timbo, but it has not. I have been sitting back and listening to the wiser opinions and suggestions of this board, not the childish ones by you.

Post by **Code3Response** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:20 pm

After some much appreciated help from Bob.... I have made some conclusions:

It is not the antenna. I have checked it and it has no problems with continuity.

I have sent the codeplug to several people to see if they can find anything I didnt. Email me if youd like to check it out.

I have NOT tested a different mic yet. I doubt that would be the problem, but next time Im down at the station Im gonna grab a spare gm300 mic and try it.

I also have not tryed a factoy wiring harness yet. I have made my own harness for it with the same gauge wires, but, you never know.

Besides the differnt mic and facotry harness, does anyone else have any ideas? Thanks for your time!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:36 pm

Just to clarify...
I had him check for continuity from the pin on the antenna connector to the element, and it appears as if the conductor isn't broken (as can sometimes happen if the cable has one solid conductor down the middle). I also had him check for a short to ground on the antenna line (as can happen with a bad crimp). It appears as if the tx line on the radio is not being grounded to the shielding on the cable. While it doesn't rule out the antenna completely, I think we've ruled out some of the basics.

-Bob

Post by **Code3Response** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:43 pm

Something interesting I found:

When I took off the head from the PA section of the radio, I looked at the 18 pin connector. I notice pin 8 and 17 are bent, as seen in the pictures below. THey are a RX HI and a power on pin, so I dont think it could have anything to do with it, but just in case....

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:19 am

Listen to the guys about the antenna. Carefully troubleshoot your entire antenna set up. Borrow a mag mount from someone else. Recheck the connectors. If you check the cable make sure the antenna is not on the mount. If its a DC grounded antenna it will show a short. Does your radio receive at all? HOw is the 12vdc B+ installed? Do you have a proper and sufficent ground?

Case in point. I have 8 NMO mounts on my truck. Had a VHF wideband antenna conneccted to a 110w Spectra. One day my rx sensitivity took a dump. Swapped antennas, checked radio with a service monitor everything. I made one mistake, I assumed the mount was good because i had just replaced all of my NMO mounts with new. Cable can't be bad, its brand new! WRONG! Put a bird meter on it, SWR was wacked. Check ohms and continuity which was wacky. still had continuity, but the ohm reading didn't jive. The cable was defective from the factory. Center conductor had broken off about 3 inches from the NMO mount itself but was still in contact with, just barely with the rest of the cetner conductor. Replaced the mount, no more problems. Ended up disecting the cable to see why it was so screwed up. You could clearly see the broken section of the center conductor. Talk about weird.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:35 am

Just a thought since I have never seen the MCS2000 radio.

Matt, said that the radio recieves well but goes wierd when in TX mode, could it be an ANTENNA SWITCH in the radio that is not switching??? I don't know how this radio takes care of this problem, but I have seen that before in others.

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 9:17 am

Hi:

After reviewing the posts about your Radio Troubles,
you BETTER pay attention to the persons making the
comments on the Antenna.

One MUST PROVE the antenna is OK piror to looking
at other avenues.

JUST because there is a DC Check of the Antenna, DOES
NOT MEAN all is well.

These HIgh-End radios have a [ Protection ] Circuit in that
[ IF ] there is High or any VSWR ( as in a Antenna that is New and
has not been cut for the Frequency in use ] the Voltage
refeleted from the Antenna ( or cable ) is seen by a Doide,and when the RF voltage is recitified, it gets detected, and disables the transmitter.

It can sometimes be a 50 / 50 chance if they work, when
they do, DEFINATELTY something is wrong.

If you attempt to contine trying to transmitt into a defective
antenna, you could be out several hundered dollars in a major
PA Rebuild.

The [ Easist ] way of checking your radio is with a [ DUMMY LOAD ]

If it works OK on a Dummy Load, You definately have some sort
of antenna issue. from there. perhaps you have a DC
Problem....I have seen that too, when there is not enough availible
Current to key the radio.

A simple [ Voltage Check ] @ the DC Power Source / and Radio PA while in transmitt will give you a indication if all is well

I have seen 100's of Mini Connectors that have been installed
improperly, and also ( 1 ) unique case where even the BRAND
NEW COAX ( from Belden ) was BAD.

After many checks, and no success, we repalced the Cable from
the Antenna to the Radio, and it worked fine.

After we [ Stripped ] the jacket off the Cable to see what
in the { H**L } was wrong, we found the Cable Shiled appeared
to have been [ Streched ] and melded to the inner foam which
even though the VSWR was low ( but a little higher than normal )
the radio just would not work with it.

I have found the Best Way in dealing with the [ UHF Mini-Plug ]
issue is to make a [ Pig Tail Adaptor ] Mini-plug to PL259, and
then use a UHF Barrel....

Its a Extra Connector to deal with, but with the 100's of Mobiles
I work with on a contractual basis, I need to get in the Cab, make
a Fast Check, and Move on to the next.

Dam Bus Companies ( and Cabies are the worst ) are horrible to work with.

Monty

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:17 am

Was the control head changed in an upgrade? AKA hacked from Model 2 to Model 3?

Check antenna (as the dead horse will tell you.)

Check Codeplug... (send it if you wish.)

If you have another (known working) MCS same freq range... try it in that vehicle and see if that one duplicates the problem. (Narrow it down to a constant. IE, radio vs. antenna)

Swap control heads if you have another, perhaps a control problem.

Try to narrow it down to a system first (Radio, Antenna, DC) then tackle the problem system by process of elimination. (Basic troubleshooting!!!!!)

good luck...

pg

Post by **Code3Response** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:29 am

Thanks for the help PG. I bought another MCS last night (110 watt this time.) So Ill be swapping control heads, mics, PA, antennas, etc and see what I can figure out. Thanks for all the help again guys!

Post by **Code3Response** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:45 pm

I FIXED IT! I FIXED IT!

Im not gonna let you off THAT easy.... take some guesses on what you think it was. Ill tell you later tonight.

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:14 pm

The codeplug you were using had 'CB' frequencies in it? lol... JUST KIDDING

You had the 'Ignition Sense' enabled??? Maybe?
Other than that, I have no idea...
Scott

Post by **Code3Response** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:17 pm

RESCUE.... VERY VERY Close. Keep trying!

jp450 · Post by **jp450** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:59 pm

Freqs too far out of band and it would not accept it....

Post by **alex** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:42 pm

possibly - you have ignition required to talk on a given frequency so that you can ensure that the radio has ignition power without actually draining the battery.

Without having the ignition sense hooked up in your truck, you would not be able to key the radio.

-Alex

Post by **Code3Response** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:03 pm

All good guesses... but:

I received my factory wiring harness in the mail today. I thought I might have a power problem, so I went out to the truck, installed it, and STILL nothing. Seeing as I never had looked throug the radio menu before.... i started scrolling around in the display menu, and BAM! HANDSET. Sure enough, it was set to OFF. A quick change to ON, and Voila! Everything is awesome! Thanks again for all of your help guys!

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:25 pm

Matthew:

After reading through the whole thread I'm sure everyone is glad that your radio now works.

Old ham saying, from an old ham, "When all else fails, read the instructions!" (G) Or, in the case of a Motorola radio, go back to the setup menus.

Regards,

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

More stupid MCS2000 ?'s - I DID IT! I FIXED IT!!! INSIDE -

More stupid MCS2000 ?'s - I DID IT! I FIXED IT!!! INSIDE -

I think..

MCS2K no transmit

MCS2000

How it works...if it works...