Minitor V problems

cduda · Post by **cduda** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:28 am

Our county is in the process of changing our dispatch procedures and all the county fire depts purchased new minitor v's in a mass pager purchase...anyway, the problems we are having are as follows:

The pagers are 2 freq, stored and non-stored voice pagers

Pager will false alert both when in and not in chargers
Will open up, (squelch) make noise when walk past electronics/electrical
Humm when in charger

Anyone else running into these problems? If so, please help shed some light as we have purchased 500 pagers and are working on solutions.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:44 pm

Minitor V falsing is a known and common problem

Read this: http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=51396

Try the phone number in the second to last post and let us know what happens.

WB2IID · Post by **WB2IID** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:40 pm

OK then, riddle me this:

My M5 works very well, I have almost no complaints. HOWEVER, every once in a while it appears that the thing suffers a power-up problem when changing batteries. I have two batteries so that one is always fully charged and ready to go at all times.

To describe it in greater detail: every now and then, when the pager battery is dicharged to the point where the alert comes on, and I swap batteries, the "fresh" battery acts as if it's dead. I admit that I keep the pager on while doing this, and by taking the battery out, then reinstalling it with the switch OFF, then turning it on, seems to fix it.

Other times everything works just fine when I hot-switch the batteries and there are no problems. There are other times I swear that the battery contacts are intermittent.

The other day the pager was dead after a couple of hours of run time with a charged battery. Farting around with the power-up sequence as described above "fixed" it and it ran for the usual 3-4 days.

Anyone else experience this?

MotoMax300 · Post by **MotoMax300** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:07 pm

Never hotswap a battery. This is your huge problem, take 2 seconds to turn the pager off, remove the battery, install the battery and turn it back on.

Take your car and leave it running, remove the battery and install a new one.... let us know how it goes.

Better yet, unplug your desktop pc, and when you're ready to use it again just plug it in, tell us how this goes.

WB2IID · Post by **WB2IID** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:03 pm

Motomax: Chill, dude. I don't hot swap batteries on my cell phone or other electronically advanced equipment, but I guess I'm in the habit of doing it with pagers. I have hot-swapped batteries on the Minitor 1/2/3/4/ and now 5 thousands of times over the past 24 years. No problems up until recently, even with the much-maligned M3s and 4s which as we all know are synthesized and fairly more complicated than their predecessors.

You do bring up a good point and I will turn the thing off when changing batteries, just to see if it makes any difference.

Another data point - tonight I just discovered that a low battery placed in the charger showed fully charged after only 10 minutes or less in the charger. So is it a battery problem or a charger problem?

Joe

MotoMax300 · Post by **MotoMax300** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:24 pm

My first try would be the battery, 2-3$ and try a new one, if the same issue arrised the charger is outputting too much.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:08 pm

Motorola system support told me how to fix this problem, have you gotten any resolution? Fyi I've also found that network switches are a big cause of this problem.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:05 pm

Motorola system support told me how to fix this problem

Well, what was the fix??

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:09 pm

Man is this a conflict, when they told me, they specifically said "We are only handing this out on a need to know basis, so don't go posting it on batlabs or anything...." what to do...

Oh well, get version 3.0 or higher of the minitor v software, read your pager and close the user info page, put the mouse in the center of the window and press the s key. You should get a popup window that says something about falsing sensitivity and a slider bar with three settings. Default is the factory setting, if your pager is not falsing do not adjust this it will reduce the sensitivity of the pager!!! Move the pager to level 1 and program the pager. if it still falses, you can go to level 2, but they do not recomend it as it reduces the sensitivity so much you might miss an otherwise good page.

There you go. In my experience I still had problems on level 2 at a fire house. I found that it happened a lot in a room with a network switch in it, and if i held down the monitor button i could here tones and all sorts of intererence when I got close to the switch, like 5 or 6 feet away. I replaced the switch, and now have reset all the pagers to default level, with no more falses. So if you have to go above level 1, you need to look for the cause of the problem. Hope this helps you guys.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:56 pm

So if you have to go above level 1, you need to look for the cause of the problem

I know the cause of the proble. Poor pager design. It is as simple as that.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:54 am

It's not all that bad. the problem is they increased the sensitivity of the pager. In my case, once I found the source it was a simple $50 fix.

DJP126 · Post by **DJP126** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:03 am

RFguy wrote:I know the cause of the proble. Poor pager design. It is as simple as that.

First you guys complain that the Min III's and IV's are not sensitive enough. Now you complain about the Min V falsing. Increased sensitivity will always cause more falsing or reduce selectivity. Since YOU KNOW the cause, let's see YOUR DESIGN to solve the problem.

I've read a lot of complaints by you and others on this board about how BAD Motorola's pruducts are. To tell the truth, I'm tired of reading the collective group's trash. If you have some technical to share or to help someone fine. That is the reason this board exists. It's NOT for your personal complaints and rants.

To the REST of you who DO use this board as intended, Please forgive me for my rant.

MassFD · Post by **MassFD** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:06 pm

First you guys complain that the Min III's and IV's are not sensitive enough. Now you complain about the Min V falsing. Increased sensitivity will always cause more falsing or reduce selectivity. Since YOU KNOW the cause, let's see YOUR DESIGN to solve the problem.

I've read a lot of complaints by you and others on this board about how BAD Motorola's pruducts are. To tell the truth, I'm tired of reading the collective group's trash. If you have some technical to share or to help someone fine. That is the reason this board exists. It's NOT for your personal complaints and rants.

To the REST of you who DO use this board as intended, Please forgive me for my rant.
_________________

Spoken like someone who does not have 120 of these things that

1 Have required battery replacment (was covered in waranty)

2 Charger amps that hum so bad that the members cannot locate them in a bedroom if they intend to sleep there.

3 Have audio feedback if the volume is turned up over 1/2 way while in the amp.

4 Go dead for no reason.

Motorolas quality has continued to go down since the Minitor 2, but I am sure the Minitor 6 will address the issues.

MotoMax300 · Post by **MotoMax300** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:25 pm

DJP126 wrote:
RFguy wrote:I know the cause of the proble. Poor pager design. It is as simple as that.
First you guys complain that the Min III's and IV's are not sensitive enough. Now you complain about the Min V falsing. Increased sensitivity will always cause more falsing or reduce selectivity. Since YOU KNOW the cause, let's see YOUR DESIGN to solve the problem.

I've read a lot of complaints by you and others on this board about how BAD Motorola's pruducts are. To tell the truth, I'm tired of reading the collective group's trash. If you have some technical to share or to help someone fine. That is the reason this board exists. It's NOT for your personal complaints and rants.

To the REST of you who DO use this board as intended, Please forgive me for my rant.

To me this board is to discuss the good, the bad, the ugly, the helpful, the partially helpful, ideas, opionions and rants... look you're getting used to it, you're ranting too.

The minitors are a selective pager, a lot of time anything newer than a minitor II is ridiculous as it's not the same as a hard coded pager, the synthesized receivers are trying to equal the quality and will one day, for now, they dont. We simply express it hoping someone will see it and take the criticism and make it better, not get annoyed and throw their hands up going "you should like it or fix it yourself".

I myself see you working and fitting in with motorola really well, the response you gave is exactly what my opionion why motorola isn't making them better yet, as they're giving up and wanting someone else to do their work so they get paid for it.

Enjoy my rant.

Batwings, that helps 80% of the time, great advice, as well as checking for the device causing the false, if locatable all is well, sometimes its just not that easy, but I agree Min 6 will be tons better.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:35 pm

Increased sensitivity will always cause more falsing

I do not agree with this statement. This is a decode algorithm problem, not a sensitivity problem. I have 2-tone decode on several types of mobiles radios that are far more sensitive than a Minitor 5 pager and do not experience falsing when I am near noise generators such as computers.

MotoMax300 · Post by **MotoMax300** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:40 pm

Easy Fix, Honestly, ADD TPL/DPL CAPABILITY! Done|

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:58 pm

MotoMax300 wrote:Easy Fix, Honestly, ADD TPL/DPL CAPABILITY! Done|

Many areas (such as mine) are stlll CSQ

WB2IID · Post by **WB2IID** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:37 am

RFGuy, I agree with you on this. It would be easy to prove: Put a stock M5 alongside a M2 with the same tone setup, and see which one falses.

The M3/4/5 tone decode algorithm looks at everything in the audio coming into it and makes a decision as to whether or not it fits into the one to six tone sets programmed into the pager.

By contrast, the Minitor 1 and 2 just look for the output of the tone-specific networks installed to determine whether to respond or not. A much, much easier task to do in hardware.

Frankly I think the new pagers do very well considering all of the variables (signal strength, etc.) and the designers should be commended.

123 · Post by **123** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:27 pm

I also have some other problems been trying to solve.

1. When the pager is scanning two channels & is placed in the Amp. Charger the pager does a audio squelch skipping sound, I know this skipping sound is produced from the pager Circuitry scanning the two channels but I do not know why the amp is making this come thru the speaker. Any suggestions on how to filter this so I can scan ?

2. When the amp is plugged into the same outlet that I have another eletronic device plugged into it makes a birdy carrier on 153.995MHz The only solution I have found is to disconnect any plugs that are on that outlet & the carrier goes away. It just sucks because I can not use that outlet for anything else other then the Minitor Amp.

I have two Minitor-V pagers with 2 chs & stored voice, version 2.80 {I have replyed to the other thread reference I can not upgrade to version 3.0}

Any help on these above matters would be great.

123 · Post by **123** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:29 pm

*Electronic

I type too fast & send before I proof read.

123 · Post by **123** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:38 pm

I will also note, when the pager is full charged & fully charged ONLY, the amp makes a low humming sound when a carrier is RX. Not a big deal to me I can live with it but wanted to point it out in case others have had the same problem & maybe go it fixed.

jban · Post by **jban** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:52 pm

We had similiar problems. Contacted /\/\, downloaded firmware 3.0 update, flashed pagers and set the revert to just under 1 second. Work fine now in AMP chargers. No hum.

Only problem we are starting to have is the batteries going bad (right at a year old). /\/\ is replacing them for us.

firetech792 · Post by **firetech792** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:02 am

I'm responsible for about 500 fire/ems pagers. So far, we've had very few problems with the M5. Most notably, M5 bad batteries and a few with audio problems. The M3 & M4 pagers, I get in my door almost daily.

There is a new Swiss pager out. Maybe this will give Motorola a run for their money:

http://www.falcondirect.com/firespecials/

WB2IID · Post by **WB2IID** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:32 am

Update on battery problems previously described in this thread:

1. There is a definite problem with charging, if I put a discharged battery into the desktop charger it sometimes charges for a couple of minutes, then shows a green light. Take it out, put it back in, then make sure it stays charging, then it charges OK. Still not quite clear if both batteries do it or not; both of are a similar date code.

2. There is an intermittent connection between the battery and the pager. I discovered that pressing on the front or back (causing the pager to flex) causes the pager to go on and off. I took the battery off, then reinstalled it a number of times before it settled down.

I don't know if there's an intermittent in the pager or the battery, but I'm thinking that next time it happens, the whole thing is going for a trip to El Paso.

PNGR1209 · Post by **PNGR1209** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:23 pm

WB2IID: I see the exact same problems as you with regard to charging and the intermittent connection.

I have a spare battery- differnt date code- same performance.

cduda · Post by **cduda** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:55 pm

OK, after reading all this helps. Still a few questions though. Our system uses a TPL, are you saying that if we change the TPL to a DPL that is may fix this issue? But in the programming of the pager, it is always as CSQ, you dont put your PL in the pager. Any suggestions or answers would be appreciated. Thanks

ard099 · Post by **ard099** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:09 pm

Forget that anybody mentioned TPL or DPL, the pager does not use it. Contacting Motorola with your issues may help. Software ver.1.4 and firmware ver.3.0 has been out for a while and the combination may help with the falsing issues. And if you are having battery issues just get your MSS to warranty the battery or replace them yourself, they are not expensive. Also if you program your pager with 1.4 make sure you upgrade to 3.0 firmware also.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:45 am

RFguy wrote:
So if you have to go above level 1, you need to look for the cause of the problem
I know the cause of the proble. Poor pager design. It is as simple as that.

We have purchased five Minitor V pagers in the past year and EVERY pager has had problems and EVERY pager has been returned to motorola for service. We purchased two, two, then one so I doubt they came from the same batch. I am impressed with some of the features but I wouldn't rely on this pager for anything. I'm glad we picked up a case of Minitor II's not too long ago. I am so disgusted with Min V's and Motorola's crappy support. Heck; we lost a Minitor V in the process of playing the "return game". At this point, get a Min II or a Swissphone.

firetech792 wrote:There is a new Swiss pager out. Maybe this will give Motorola a run for their money

Looks like FalconDirect.com shows the Swissphone as being "synthesized" which is incorrect. It has a crystal controlled receiver.

Post by **neptunekid** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:52 am

firetech792 wrote:There is a new Swiss pager out. Maybe this will give Motorola a run for their money

I've seen a lot of these SwissPhones come in for repair. The LCD screen is busted, the rubber band around the pager is a poor, poor design as it gets torn, and worn. Then the user has to use a pencil/pen to push the buttons in the corner and they are busted. There's just not enough competition and manufacturing of these to devote as much time as say an Ipod or Blackberry, so I'm afraid the problems will not go away over night.

Just my humble, down on one knee opinion.

jban · Post by **jban** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:58 am

Don't buy amp chargers. Motorola won't repair them. Most of our issues are batteries craping out after a year and amp chargers going bad. Motorola won't help. Been dealing with them on these issues since we got them. Motorola was supposed to replace the batteries! Have not seen that yet. Given up.

Our firefighters Association is working with the County to possibly set up our own alpha page system on one of our existing vhf channels since we are migrating to 800mz. The pagers are smaller, cheaper and descrete.

WB2IID · Post by **WB2IID** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:44 am

WB2IID wrote:Update on battery problems previously described in this thread:

1. There is a definite problem with charging, if I put a discharged battery into the desktop charger it sometimes charges for a couple of minutes, then shows a green light. Take it out, put it back in, then make sure it stays charging, then it charges OK. Still not quite clear if both batteries do it or not; both of are a similar date code.

2. There is an intermittent connection between the battery and the pager. I discovered that pressing on the front or back (causing the pager to flex) causes the pager to go on and off. I took the battery off, then reinstalled it a number of times before it settled down.

I don't know if there's an intermittent in the pager or the battery, but I'm thinking that next time it happens, the whole thing is going for a trip to El Paso.

Update on the update: Finally concluded that it was the battery, as one would work and the other would not. Of course the battery warranty had expired.

So I took the battery apart, by CAREFULLY cutting around the inside edge of the battery case with an exacto knife. I stress carefully - one slip and either you cut into one of the cells or one of your fingers.

I haven't found any bad connections yet, since it now works when I put it on the pager.

BTW the visible connections inside the battery are gold plated lands on a small circuit board at the top of the cells. It's partially covered with some type of soft potting compound which I will dig out next time it acts up.

ICEMANTIM · Post by **ICEMANTIM** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:41 pm

Hello just reading this post and saw peopel talking about date codes. How do you tell the date code on a Minitor 5 battery. The ones i have only have the part number. I know how to read them on the radio batterries, but can not seem to find them on pager batterries.
Thanks Tim

arlojanis · Post by **arlojanis** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:54 am

The code date is stamped with black ink above the label.

ICEMANTIM · Post by **ICEMANTIM** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:30 pm

Hello Thanks for the info. I found it but there is know way i can read it and be sure what it is. I can just see that there is something there. Thanks for your help.
Tim

Post by **don2557** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:05 am

cduda wrote:Our county is in the process of changing our dispatch procedures and all the county fire depts purchased new minitor v's in a mass pager purchase...anyway, the problems we are having are as follows:

The pagers are 2 freq, stored and non-stored voice pagers

Pager will false alert both when in and not in chargers
Will open up, (squelch) make noise when walk past electronics/electrical
Humm when in charger

Anyone else running into these problems? If so, please help shed some light as we have purchased 500 pagers and are working on solutions.

The first thing to do is to define how the pagers are false alerting. (1) If there is a short beep "alert" before the audio turns on that is one problem. (2) If the pager is in monitor mode and the audio turns on with no carrier present then this is a different problem. If you do not hear a short beep before the audio opens and the pager was in selective call mode then #1 is still the most likely situation. To resolve problem #1 you have a few choices. If Motorola has a fix then re-flash. If there is no reliable Motorola solution then your system tone code assignments can be changed to help eliminate this problem. This means reprogramming your pagers and recoding the system. Not a big deal. The idea is to separate tone 1 and tone 2 frequencies in every pager and use higher tone frequencies for the first tone. This will present the best case for false alert protection in your pagers. If tone frequencies in a specific address are to close to each other then a mix of outside interference and / or internal interference has the possibility to walk right thru the decoding algorithms. The last suggestion for false alerting is to review the programminf for the pagers. As I recall there is a selection in the programmer for "Motorola only tones". Its entirely possible that the programmer opens the tone tolerance up when this is selected. Motorola tones are spaced at approximately 2.4 %. If there is a "user selected tones" use this. The allowable tone tolerance in this mode should be reduced. There should not be any significant degradation in alerting sensitivity in the user tone mode.

If #2 is the problem there is not much you can do. This is likely to be outside interference and and an internal mix of signals typically related to your carriers frequency. Not much you can do except contact Motorola.

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