Batboard

Hi, I have a quick question regarding radio repeaters.... I bought a pair of Motorola Radius SP50's to use during snowboarding trips. I imagine a lot of the ski resorts (especially the large ones) have one of more repeaters setup throughout the ski area so that the radios that the ski patrol uses are in range throughout the ski area. I am wondering if those repeaters are specifically programmed to only repeat the frequency that the ski patrol radios use, or all frequencies on the particular band (I'm guessing the "Business" Band?)?

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
-steve

gasxtreme wrote:Hi, I have a quick question regarding radio repeaters.... I bought a pair of Motorola Radius SP50's to use during snowboarding trips. I imagine a lot of the ski resorts (especially the large ones) have one of more repeaters setup throughout the ski area so that the radios that the ski patrol uses are in range throughout the ski area. I am wondering if those repeaters are specifically programmed to only repeat the frequency that the ski patrol radios use, or all frequencies on the particular band (I'm guessing the "Business" Band?)?

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
-steve

Simple easy answer. They will repeat one frequency pair only.

FYI even if you were capable of using soemone elses repeater, you need to obtain authorization first.

Thanks for the reply Scott. Oh well, they still have pretty good range, and should do just fine for us, was just curious
-steve

Do you have a license for the frequency that the SP50's are on? Does that license cover operation in the area where you snowboard?

Bob,

I just got the radios off of ebay recently, I am still doing my research on the FCC legalities, etc. of operating them. The seller does not know what frequency they are currently on (I think he just bought them from someone else and resold them).

Actually, if anyone has somewhere where I can get some easy-to-understand information on what I need to do to license and legally operate the radios, I'd appreciate it.

These radios are only going to be used for personal, non-commercial use between myself and a friend to communicate while we are separated on the slopes on ski trips, nothing else. I simply found the performance of GMRS and FRS to be, well, terrible.... I simply wasn't getting the range I was looking to get, and I was also having trouble finding a channel/frequency without anybody on it (EVERYONE has those FRS/GMRS radios on the mountain). I actually got the idea of getting these radios after seeing Ski patrol using them. This may sound stupid, but basically my thought process in the beginning was "Well, if ski patrol uses them, it must be for good reason", and upon research found these radios to be a good option.

As stated before, and comments or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated

Thanks!
-steve

To be honest, you and your pals are probably best off just getting your amateur radio licenses. There are all kinds of open frequencies out in the sticks.

Running a repeater complicates the issue a bit, but still, amateur radio is probably your best bet and the hobby desperately needs some new blood Licensing is quite simple, and there are tons of websites & books with the question pool so getting your ticket should be a breeze if you can study up

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to look into it.... Actually it kind of runs in the blood, my grandfather is a Licensed HAM operator, so I'm sure he could point me in the right direction.... Actually come to think of it, I don't know why I didn't ask him these questions in the first place..... doh!

Thanks!
-steve

I certainly agree with what has already been posted. Just so you know that you have a few options, here are some additional random thoughts. Also, I don't know if your SP50s are VHF or UHF, anyway:

-MURS frequencies allow legal license free on five VHF frequencies at 2-watts or less.

-GMRS frequencies allow licensed operation on a several frequencies. There are some GMRS repeaters around and some GMRS repeater owners do allow others on their repeater with permission. A good GMRS transceiver on simplex, not the Wal-Mart blister pack radio for $20, but a commercial grade radio will have good range.

-Amateur radio does require a license and there are lots of repeaters all over the country. It gives you choices of VHF or UHF, repeaters or simplex, and much more.

-Nextel Direct Connect and Direct Talk. Direct Connect requires a monthly fee of course, but their off-network simplex range isn't bad. In fact some people have bought used i325s with the fixed antennas (or other units) from Ebay or other sources and only use it for Direct Talk simplex. One of the benefits of this is you don't pay a monthly fee for using Direct Talk like you do Direct Connect AND you have a unit that is still capable of placing a wireless 911 call in an emergency even without a monthly subscription.

So as you can see there are lots of choices depending on what you want to do and what your needs are. What kind of range do you need?

If you are genuinely interested in radio and radio theory, then I would look into becoming a ham, but then everyone you communicate with needs to also be a ham, and amateur radio is not for business use. GMRS, everyone you talk with can operate under one license ONLY if you are related. MURS is a VHF license not needed band, but you can only operate 2 watts. Google MURS and GMRS and you will find out more about them. I wouldn't buy too many radios until you decide what your gonna do. Good luck

A repeater is basically two radios attached, with the output of one going into the other, which explains why they only do one frequency. (If they have multiple channels, they need multiple repeaters.)

If the radios are VHF (model number begins "P93"), you should look into programming them for MURS, which allows license-free operation. If they're UHF ("P94..."), you could get a license for GMRS, but that does require a license. (Some would say to illegally use the UHF business band, and others would say to use FRS, but both are illegal and shouldn't be done!)

One of the important things is that I'd like to be able to use the full 5 watts that my radios feature, thats one of the main reasons I bought these particular ones..... Speaking of which, here is the actual eBay auction for the radios, maybe you guys can grab some more information from there....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0074020850

They are infact the VHF model, and the model number does begin with P93.

Basically, what I am mainly confused about is whether I as a person need to be licensed to operated them, or whether I need to "register" a specific frequency or what..... I know that the radio shops won't just program any frequencies onto the radios, and I am just wondering how I could go about getting frequencies, getting those frequencies programmed onto the radios, getting myself licensed (if need be) and using them to their full 5 watt potential.

If I need to get some sort of license, would a HAM license cover my needs, because if so, I'll probably just go for that, as it would be nice to have

Thanks!
-steve

I appreciate all of your help!

Since it's VHF, and you already have them, MURS is probally easist for you. I think they can limit the transmit power.

gasxtreme wrote:One of the important things is that I'd like to be able to use the full 5 watts that my radios feature, thats one of the main reasons I bought these particular ones.....

Unfortunately, MURS is capped at 2 Watts. [See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Use_Radio_Service ] You could perhaps get licensed for the business band; honestly, I don't know what that entails.

(Looks like you got a pretty good deal on those radios... Especially given their condition.)

Basically, what I am mainly confused about is whether I as a person need to be licensed to operated them, or whether I need to "register" a specific frequency or what...

I'm not sure this is the answer you're looking for, but it's the truth: it depends on what radio service you're using:
- Ham radio: each operator needs a license; you're given a range of frequencies (144-148 MHz for VHF) to use
- MURS: no license; five fixed frequencies, 2 Watts
- Business band: I think one fixed frequency is licensed, 5 Watts? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong; I've never done it.) I think anyone in your 'business' can use them.

getting those frequencies programmed onto the radios

Several possibilities. If you like to dabble with radios, you might look into getting a programming kit, but plan to spend several hundred dollars to do it legitimately. [ http://batlabs.com/newbie.html is a good link ]

You could most likely find an area MSS (Motorola Service Shop) to program them for you. [ http://www.usmss.org/index.html ]

Finally, you may be able to find someone on here who will do it for you if you buy them a drink or something.

If I need to get some sort of license, would a HAM license cover my needs, because if so, I'll probably just go for that, as it would be nice to have

I'm not so sure. A ham license is a great thing to have, and can be really rewarding, but there are a few things that make me wonder if it'd work for you:
- The VHF ham band is 144-148 MHz. The SP50s, technically, don't go that low. (Realistically, I believe you can hack them down in software, but it's probably not something you can get a MSS to do for you.)
- Each operator needs to have a ham ticket.
- You can't discuss anything commercial, use bad language, etc. on the ham bands. It's pretty self-policing; I have no issues transmitting a few minutes of background noise to test a transmitter on the MURS band, but I wouldn't be caught dead so much as clicking the mic for a test on a ham frequency.

Hope this helps!

I belive SP50's came, from Motorola, pre-programmed on 151.625, CSQ.

Most any new Motorola radio, at least the new one's I've owned and sold, came out of the box with just 151.625, waris portables included. I don't believe 151.625 is MURS, but it should be seeing as how commonly it's used...

fogster wrote:I'm not sure this is the answer you're looking for, but it's the truth: it depends on what radio service you're using:
- Ham radio: each operator needs a license; you're given a range of frequencies (144-148 MHz for VHF) to use
- MURS: no license; five fixed frequencies, 2 Watts
- Business band: I think one fixed frequency is licensed, 5 Watts? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong; I've never done it.) I think anyone in your 'business' can use them.

Okay, cool, so it sounds like I am after the Business band at this point so I can use my full 5 watts... The question now is how do I obtain a "frequency"? Would I have to apply for one/request one from the FCC?

fogster wrote:You could most likely find an area MSS (Motorola Service Shop) to program them for you. [ http://www.usmss.org/index.html ]

Yep, already found a shop in my area that will do them for like $20 or $25 for each radio.... That is perfectly reasonable for me.

fogster wrote:Finally, you may be able to find someone on here who will do it for you if you buy them a drink or something.

I'd be more than happy to; if I was of age.... Doh! Not an option for about 2 years, haha.....

I'm not so sure. A ham license is a great thing to have, and can be really rewarding, but there are a few things that make me wonder if it'd work for you:
- The VHF ham band is 144-148 MHz. The SP50s, technically, don't go that low. (Realistically, I believe you can hack them down in software, but it's probably not something you can get a MSS to do for you.)
- Each operator needs to have a ham ticket.
- You can't discuss anything commercial, use bad language, etc. on the ham bands. It's pretty self-policing; I have no issues transmitting a few minutes of background noise to test a transmitter on the MURS band, but I wouldn't be caught dead so much as clicking the mic for a test on a ham frequency.

Hope this helps!

No need to worry about that, its just myself and my Dad, we don't show too much aggression towards each other, haha..... All we will use them for is to find each other on the slopes and to figure out where we are meeting up for lunch.

Okay, so basically I just need to license/obtain/register/request a frequency from the FCC (or someone else?) to use on these radios, and then I am set? I myself, as a person don't need any licenses or certifications to operate them?

Also, are the people handing out the frequencies going to give me a hard time because me and my Dad aren't a "business per se?

I appreciate the time you guys are putting into helping me out!

Thank You!
-steve

gasxtreme wrote:Okay, cool, so it sounds like I am after the Business band at this point so I can use my full 5 watts... The question now is how do I obtain a "frequency"? Would I have to apply for one/request one from the FCC?

I'll let someone else take that one, as I'm honestly not sure. I'm pretty sure it used to just involve a form, but I'm not sure how ULS / MURS has changed that.

I'd be more than happy to; if I was of age.... Doh! Not an option for about 2 years, haha.....

I actually just turned 21 recently myself. I just gave buying a drink as an example of how it wouldn't really take much.

No need to worry about that, its just myself and my Dad, we don't show too much aggression towards each other, haha..... All we will use them for is to find each other on the slopes and to figure out where we are meeting up for lunch.

Ahh, okay. Ham radio isn't a "personal radio service" per se, but there are a lot of families (including my own!) that use it for that. If you and your dad are somewhat technically inclined, you could easily pass the exam for a ham ticket. I'd say it requires a bit of technical background, but really, my mom (a smart woman, no doubt, but not in any way an electronics/geeky person) passed her exam with flying colors after reading through the study material.

I myself, as a person don't need any licenses or certifications to operate them?

Under a business license, no. Under a ham ticket, yes, you would need personal certification.

Also, are the people handing out the frequencies going to give me a hard time because me and my Dad aren't a "business per se?

I think I've seen this asked before on here, but again, I'll let someone more knowledgeable give you an answer. The way I see it, anyone could always file for incorporation if they wanted to (or run a sole proprietorship), so the distinction to me isn't a big deal. The one catch is that I believe business band frequencies are normally licensed for a particular location, but there's always 151.625, the itinerant one.

Your next step is frequency coordination -- having one of the FCC's private channel-finding groups locate usable frequencies for your repeater. In the business radio service, there are many coordinators to choose from. I've had good luck using the Personal Communications Industry Association (PCIA) and Forest Industries Telecommunications (FIT).

PCIA: http://www.pcia.com/pcia_frequency_overview.htm

FIT: http://www.landmobile.com

You must know your repeater's exact location, including longitude and latitude, height above mean sea level, the tower height, street address, and a number of other technical parameters.

Figure three to four hundred dollars in a one-time fee to obtain the two VHF channels you'll need, plus $160 in FCC fees for a 10 year license. If you need the forms filled out to get coordination or a license, the frequency coordinators can do that for an extra fee. The websites listed above have most of the details.

w8cmi wrote:Your next step is frequency coordination -- having one of the FCC's private channel-finding groups locate usable frequencies for your repeater.

But, for simplex HT-to-HT stuff, wouldn't it make sense to just go for one of the 'dot' frequencies (e.g., 151.625, 151.955)?

w8cmi wrote:Your next step is frequency coordination -- having one of the FCC's private channel-finding groups locate usable frequencies for your repeater. In the business radio service, there are many coordinators to choose from. I've had good luck using the Personal Communications Industry Association (PCIA) and Forest Industries Telecommunications (FIT).

PCIA: http://www.pcia.com/pcia_frequency_overview.htm

FIT: http://www.landmobile.com

You must know your repeater's exact location, including longitude and latitude, height above mean sea level, the tower height, street address, and a number of other technical parameters.

Figure three to four hundred dollars in a one-time fee to obtain the two VHF channels you'll need, plus $160 in FCC fees for a 10 year license. If you need the forms filled out to get coordination or a license, the frequency coordinators can do that for an extra fee. The websites listed above have most of the details.

I appreciate the information, and I apologize if I confused you, but fogster is correct, we are just after a radio to radio communication setup, no repeater involved.

Thanks for all of the information guys!
-steve

The only thiing about a business license, and that includes the dot freqs and even 151.625, you need to be a business. 151.625 is chaos wherever you go, so while you could get away with using it, it might be too crowded.

If those were UHF radios, GMRS would be the way to go. REAL radios work fine there.

If I went the GMRS route would I have the same range as if I had a business frequency? Distance/range is my main concern.

Thank You.
-steve

using the same class of radio and antenna? Yes.