Batboard

Good evening all,


I was fortunate to come across a Motorola R1801
programming 'suitcase. Unfortunately, no one at the place I borrowed
it from has any idea how to work it.

I am trying to program a codeplug for a C74CLB7105AT station. I have
the following program roms in the suitcase: MSF, MSF1, MSF2, MSF4,
MSF5, MSF6. Others for Syntor, etc. are also present. I also have
the RTL5817 board/eeprom socket and have it plugged in to the edge
connector. I have the two DB25 cables between the top and bottom
sections connected, as well as the accessory db9 power cable between
the two halves.

I tried to figure out how to operate the thing, but so far no luck.
Anyone here with experience willing to offer some guidance? Here is
what I figured out so far..

I tried to run the various MSF programs at startup. Some run, some
freeze, and some call for a serial cable to be connected. I think
MSF1 or 4 loads up and allows me to enter the sub menus. I'm not in
the shop at the moment, so I'm going by memory.

I can go and adjust all of the repeater parameters (freq, pl,
options, etc.) If I try to read the current eeprom settings, I get a
checksum error, almost like the suitcase is not even seeing the
eeprom to begin with. The prom is good; it is working in the station
just fine. I tried more than one prom. Same deal.

If, after manually entering the desired settings, I try to "program"
a blank eeprom, the units says "standby" and a counter increments
from 0-9 then restarts, then finally ends and says "error".

Anyone have an idea what I am missing to get this thing to do it's
intended job?

Guidance it greatly appreciated. I would be more than happy to return
a favor (such a programming a prom)to anyone that could explain to me
what I am missing to get to the point where I can get my proms
programmed.

Thanks
Eric

What you want to do is start the programmer from the initial startup prompt by using this command...MSF.

Type that, not a MSF1 or MSF4 or anything like that.

Start there and see what happens. It sounds like your programmer works, but you are starting at the wrong spot.

From there it's not too hard to navigate the menus.

George

I tried starting with "MSF", but still no luck reading or writing eeproms.

Still get a checksum error when trying to read an existing eeprom, and "ERROR" after the standby counter when trying to write a blanked eeprom.


Eric

The next thing would be to check to see what version of adapter you have. My thought is to check some parts values inside it to make this determination.

This has to do with what type of prom you are using. I think there was a difference in adapter between 2732 and 2732A.

This has to match up before you will get your programmer to blow the prom.

I think what they did was to upgrade from 2732 to the 2732A. Some resistor values changed as a result.

I have the 5817B version eeprom adapter, and the eeproms are 2732As. Version 8 on the R1801 also.

Anyone know if I need to check anything on the 5817B adapter?



Any other ideas?

Now that I am more awake...

In the programming manual...or should I say, badly photocopied bunch of sheets stapled together...there is a schematic of the programming adapter. The changes are called out there.

I suspect this is something simple like your proms are not completely blank or, and that's another thing...I seem to remember a brand name issue with these proms. Of course I am 75 miles away from my programmer right now.

When I get home, I'll check my programmer and see what the proms are that I have for spare units. Proms..that is...

George

ke2d wrote:I have the 5817B version eeprom adapter, and the eeproms are 2732As. Version 8 on the R1801 also.

Anyone know if I need to check anything on the 5817B adapter?



Any other ideas?

2732 series chips are UV erase. If you're trying to program what you think is a blank one, and it is not completely blank, the R1801 will have kittens about it.

You need an appropriate UV eraser unit. Make sure there's no label over the EPROM's window, stick it in the eraser, and expose it for 20 minutes or so. That should wipe any previous contents.

If you have access to a standard device programmer, you can actually check the device to insure that it has been blanked.

Happy tweaking.

It sounds like you have the correct equipment. The fact that you are not able to read a PROM that works OK in a station suggests that there may be a hardware problem with the R1800 or the adapter.

The first thing to suspect would be the 25 pin jumper cables that connect the two halves of the programmer. Those have been known to cause problems. Check them for continuity, shorts, & intermittents.

1) You definately have the correct adapter (RTL5817B) and program version 8 was the last one the R1801 used.

2) KC7GR is correct. The analog MSF5000 uses eproms that must be blanked by UV before programming.

3) You can test the LOWER half of the R1801 by entering \T when the "enter program name" prompt is displayed. Use the two ribbon cables to connect I/O1 to I/O2 and I/O5 to I/O6. Test # 4 (I think) tests the I/O paths. Test 3 tests the internal memory. The other two tests are for display and keyboard.

4) Installed programs can be recalled by entering \L when the "enter program name" prompt.

5) 95% of the problems on the R1801 were in the reader/programmer board. The majority of those problems were in the address and data line circuits. The ICs that failed most often for the data lines are U5, U6 and U7. The address line ICs are U2, U25 and U3. These are all the same type device. I don't have a manual on the R1801 so I don't know what type device these are. I think they are 7806 devices.

Anyone with questions on the R1801, R2000 series, R2400/R2200 series, R1011, S1347/S1348, R1200 or S1327 can PM me or send an email to [email protected] and I will answer (to tje best that memory allows) to answer your questions.

ok, Thanks for the suggestions.

I ran the IO test, and the response I get back its PIA ok or something to that effect, not much else.. If I remove the cables between IO 1&2 or 5&6, the test fails, so it looks like the bottom half is working.

I verified that my blank 2732As are in fact blank by checking them on my old 4-gang pc-based programmer.

Seems like something in the upper unit is not working properly. If I pull the IO1 or IO2 cables while trying to access the prom (verify, read, or write operations), the unit responds that the adapter is not installed. Same if I pull the 5817B unit. So it looks like I am seeing some sort of communications to the top half, but it just wont see the proms.

I noticed that the 5817B, unlike the other adapters I have here, has a few jumper holes on the circuit board. One in particular looks like three holes side by side that could be jumpered to either and A or B option.

Is there anyting I should be aware of on the 5817B that might be causing a problem with seeing the proms?

The adapter performs two tasks. First, it connects the PROM socket pins to the correct I/O pins in the Reader-Programmer. Second, it configures the Reader-Programmer.

The jumpers you see are probably part of an area that sets the adapter ID. There would be jumpers installed to ground on 3 of the pins [logic 0] and opens [logic 1] on two others, thus forming binary 10001 which is decimal 17, the ID of the adapter. That enables the MSF program to determine that the correct adapter is installed.

There are also precision resistors in each programming adapter. These become part of the voltage regulator circuitry in the Reader-Programmer to set the necessary operating voltages for the device to be read/programmed.

One simple check you could do is to check for 5VDC. Pin 24 of the PROM is 5V and pin 12 is ground. Put your volmeter across those pins, then ask the R1800 to read the chip, see if 5V is applied. That should be the only necessary voltage on the adapter for reading operations.

OK,

It looks like the binary address is right. Looks like the first five pins of the prom adapter are the address lines. If the pins go LSB to MSB, then the binary is 18, if I recall correctly. So the pins must not be in LSB>MSB order. The unit is back at my shop, so I don't recall the exact config. But from the solder pads, it looks like it was never touched since the factory wave solder job.

I am getting 5v constant on pin 12, but when the R1801 goes to read the prom, it drops for a moment, then comes back to 5v. So it looks like it is controlling the 5817 to some degree, just no seeing the data or generating a checksum.

What to check next?

You are probably going to need a manual from here on in...

There just happens to be one on ebay, item #: 320088783051

You can check U5, U6 & U7 with an ohmmeter to ground. The devices are identical and the circuitry for each pin is identical. If, as an example, pin 12 of U7 shows a radically different reading than U5 & U6, then U7 is the defective part. The three devices are mounted just above the 25 pin connectors going from the bottom toward the top. The output of each dataline is tied to a darlington transistor (Q1 through Q8). If an output line is defective, trace the line to the corresponding darlington and check it too.