Batboard

Okay, tranditionally we hear the old school sounding MDC in the movies etc. The long one with the tones that go up and down it sounds really cool, well I heared it on NYC's "Citywide 1" frequency.

What kind of signaling is that? Is it available for use on HT1000s or The pro series???

Sounds like MODAT, available as a Flash Option on Astro Saber and XTS series radios, and some old MT500 radios had it back in the day I think.

hmm, anyone know when Star was used? I am playing with it on a HT1000 right now and it kinda sounds like one of the old school signaling sounds however it doesnt work on newer radios.

Anyone know what NYPD used/uses now???

Jason618 wrote:hmm, anyone know when Star was used?

Isn't it properly called GE-Star? I don't profess to know much about it at all, but I always assumed it was GE's 'competitor' to MDC.

interesting... STAR is a signaling option in motorolas HT1000

This site alludes to its use as a PTT-ID on a GE radio, so I'm not totally crazy... Maybe Motorola licensed it? I've not worked with HT1000s, but I've seen it mentioned in its RSS, and I swear it's come up in a Flashcode before.

theres one other signaling option, atris or some such on the ht1000 however wasnt available on the model i was modifying, ill try that last signaling option on a different ht1000 to see if i get the noise im looking for.

Anyone else know anything about NYPD's infrastructure or FDNY and where i can find details on it?

http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ is your friend.

I'm pretty sure what you're referring to is MODAT. He's got a clip of GEStar there too.

I'm not at all familiar with NYPD's system. This might have been a dream or something, but I thought I heard that they were using some wacky hybrid P25 'PTT-ID' even on analog data, or something along those lines.

If it's MODAT that you're referring to, muggsy is right--it's only in older ASTRO gear, and maybe some real old gear. I think the last users let it go a long time ago. An HT1000 won't do it.

fogster wrote:http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ is your friend.

I'm pretty sure what you're referring to is MODAT. He's got a clip of GEStar there too.

I'm not at all familiar with NYPD's system. This might have been a dream or something, but I thought I heard that they were using some wacky hybrid P25 'PTT-ID' even on analog data, or something along those lines.

If it's MODAT that you're referring to, muggsy is right--it's only in older ASTRO gear, and maybe some real old gear. I think the last users let it go a long time ago. An HT1000 won't do it.

The wacky hybrid P25 is FDNY. They use that on fireground channel. That feature is identical to P25 ID, except that after the ID, the audio is analog. It is like a poor man's analog fireground voice with accountability feature.

NYPD uses Saber, VX-537 and SSE-5000 (very few). What you hear over the radio is the MDC ID after DOS muting at their repeater. Hence it's just that little chirp and not the SQUARK.

MODAT IT IS!! I like modat, were there a lot of cons to it which is why they use MDC 1200 now?

and modat is avail on the new XTS series?

Not that I want to chime in for no reason, but, NYPD uses all sorts of crap, namely MDC muting at the repeaters, but they got all sorts of other sounds (yes we're talkin' courtesy like tones and the like).

I wish I had sound clips of half the stuff I've heard on NYPD's system (errr, why are we calling it a system technically isn't it just a collection of analog channels...its not like its trunked).

Modat, or Motorola Data, is an old ID signaling dating from the 70's, hardly anyone uses it anymore.

MDT replaced Modat as it has more codes and features, and is much faster.

Modat used a string of different single tones, Mdt uses one tone shift sequence and is much faster.

5-tone (give or take) signalling is very popular outside the US, and it sounds a bit like MODAT.

Jason618 wrote:MODAT IT IS!! I like modat, were there a lot of cons to it which is why they use MDC 1200 now?

The "cons" are that it's essentially discontinued, and (as far as I know: it was being phased out around the time I was born?) only works as a PTT-ID, whereas MDC does stuff like emergency signaling, status messaging, selective calling, etc. Really the only thing it has going for it is that it sounds much better.

and modat is avail on the new XTS series?

I can't say with certainty that it's not (especially given the 'whore' scene), but I think MODAT got the final nail in its coffin long before the XTS5K (or newer) came out.

Guys,


FDNY is using the Tactical Public Safety Signaling. It transmit the ID in Digital but Voice is in analog. I am pretty sure this is available to all in XTS5000 under the Personality Screen for a Personality.


Radio43

XTS series has MODAT

i believe it was brought back for LAPD

It was, (Q351/G351) however LAPD doesn't use that signalling protocol anymore because they switched their radio infrastructure/system to Astro, and as we know, Astro doesn't support Modat (Or MDC or the like for that matter)

No other agency that I know of currently uses Modat in any official capacity. The only place you'll likely find it now is in whored out radios or older MT500's.

NOT available on the ASTRO25 platform.

Either way, for NYPD..your hearing the MDC from Sabers and MDC1200 equipped radios. No modat used with NYPD. You do hear some of the tone remote and "stepped on" two-tones.

The last time I remember MODAT being used in NYC was with NYC EMS around the late 80's ('86 '87...) - long before the merge with FDNY. I don't ever recall NYPD using MODAT but I could be wrong on that. The units at the time had the MX series of radios that had EMS and NYPD frequencies on them. These days FDNY bureau of EMS uses MDC1200 for ID's and you get get the ID's if your radio is equipped to decode them.

Slight correction on the NYPD Model numbers:
Saber I, SSE, Vertex 510, Vertex 520, Vertex VX-800 and a few Vertex- 537 (ESU)

Occaisonally you see an old Vertex VX-10 carried by a few bosses.

FDNY carries XTS-3500 model I ( FG radios)
XTS-3500 model III chief officers and FAST radios
Vertex VX-800 Interop radio
STX-821 800 mhz trunked system (DOITT)
A few old Saber I (citywide radios)
the infamous POST radio

there may even be a few motorola mx radios out in the field but I haven't seen one in years, they would be citywide use only

dxon2m wrote:

fogster wrote:http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ is your friend.

I'm pretty sure what you're referring to is MODAT. He's got a clip of GEStar there too.

I'm not at all familiar with NYPD's system. This might have been a dream or something, but I thought I heard that they were using some wacky hybrid P25 'PTT-ID' even on analog data, or something along those lines.

If it's MODAT that you're referring to, muggsy is right--it's only in older ASTRO gear, and maybe some real old gear. I think the last users let it go a long time ago. An HT1000 won't do it.

The wacky hybrid P25 is FDNY. They use that on fireground channel. That feature is identical to P25 ID, except that after the ID, the audio is analog. It is like a poor man's analog fireground voice with accountability feature.

NYPD uses Saber, VX-537 and SSE-5000 (very few). What you hear over the radio is the MDC ID after DOS muting at their repeater. Hence it's just that little chirp and not the SQUARK.

I think you are referring to Citywide 1 NY which is a buff group on 461.225 mhz

Some members have Modat in their radios, you will also hear Kenwood Fleetsync GE Star and MDC-1200 over the channel.

I don't think anyone still makes a MODAT decoder anymore. They are using it simply because it sounds cool.

Jason618 wrote:Okay, tranditionally we hear the old school sounding MDC in the movies etc. The long one with the tones that go up and down it sounds really cool, well I heared it on NYC's "Citywide 1" frequency.

What kind of signaling is that? Is it available for use on HT1000s or The pro series???

OK, here's the skinny on MODAT, yes it is Motorola Data Signalling. But guess what it was originally designed for. Cement trucks! Sensors were placed throughout the truck so the dispatcher could tell if the drum was rotating, the engine temp of the truck, how long since the truck left the yard, and the like.
In the 70's a group called LEAA was getting Federal funding for Police departments to upgrade their radios, and have Interopability (sound familiar). Part of the requirement was to have an ID transmitted with the radio transmission so the unit could be identified, non-voice conditions (available, at scene,etc) could be sent and in a worst case an Office down condition, could be sent back to HQ. I have most if not all the books on the systems. I installed and worked on quite a few in Westchester in the mid 70's, and even still have a bunch of Modat boxes and heads.
N.Y.C. E.M.S (now FDNY EMS Bureau) was a big user of them, the MVO's didn't like them since they could be identified when transmitting, we eventually had to put the control heads in lock boxes to prevent the operators from the unplugging the MODAT heads.
LAPD had a special Flash made for them since their base station decoders were still set up for MODAT when they went from MX radios to Astro Sabers. Thats where some of the Astro Sabers with Modat are comming fom, that Flash code.

So is there anyone around that still makes MODAT decoders, or maybe you can offer a list of decoder part numbers to look for?

Jason618 wrote:Okay, tranditionally we hear the old school sounding MDC in the movies etc. The long one with the tones that go up and down it sounds really cool, well I heared it on NYC's "Citywide 1" frequency.

What kind of signaling is that? Is it available for use on HT1000s or The pro series???

I think I know what your talking about ... its a high-pitched two-tone sound. Always seems to be at the end of a transmission almost like a courtesy tone. Not sure what it's called, I've been looking for a sound clip, I've heard it MANY a-time and have always wondered what it was.

[EDIT]Infact, I've found it, would this happen to be the sound: http://www.circlesoftus.org/~gatekeep/courtesytone.mp3[/EDIT]

Those tones are as follows:

1st tone: 2175Hz "High Level Guard Tone", used to wake up transmitter.
2nd tone: 1950Hz "F1 Function Tone", keys transmitter on Frequency 1.

Those are NOT "Courtesy Tones"... They are control tones that are part of a Tone Remote Control link from a dispatch console or voting comparator to a transmitter.

They are not normally heard over the air, but under certain circumstances (such as sending a transmit command just as the transmitter is about to unkey from a previous transmission, OR, having a voting comparator such as a DigiTAC set up with no re-key delay) these tones will be heard over the air.

THATS what those tones are.

spot on although you shouldnt hear it on newer transmitters as it should be notched.

d119 wrote:Those are NOT "Courtesy Tones"... They are control tones that are part of a Tone Remote Control link from a dispatch console or voting comparator to a transmitter... THATS what those tones are.

Now that I've listened to the clip, I, too, have heard this at times and always wondered what it was. Thanks for the clip and the explanation!

i always hear them at the end of a transmission though... why the end if theyre "waking up" a transmitter????

We only have one transmitter and a bunch of receivers in town.... and its not happening after everyones transmissions, only some.

Sometimes between transmissions from unit to unit, not base talking.

Rumor has it that the NYPD is replacing its astro gear with Vertex "bricks", a friend of mine who works in the housing division just came over today and showed his new vertex. SSE's were too huge to be useful unless its going to be a new "baton"

Already done in many parts of the city.

Models in use are VX-510 VX-520 (patrol)
VX-800 Bosses and Detectives
ESU has VX-537 and VX-800

FDNY has VX-800