Newbie Planning MAJOR Install Project - Need Help and Advice

[losangelescop]

Ok people, I will soon need to do a major install on a 4 door sedan. The paticular make and model hasn't been selected yet, so I need help based on a standard 4 door car. (Keep in mind I am currently in Australia and so car suggestions won't help much due to the different models over here, however make any reference to any brand of emergency equipment you want as I have every brand known to man over here)

Now I will be doing most of the installation myself, with some help from an electrician friend of mine, but he has never dealt with emergency equipment so I thought it best to post my long list (apologies for length of post) of questions and requested advice and stuff. Help out with what you can, and when you do just reference the question number so I know what question you are refferring to. I know being a newbie to this stuff I'm in way over my head, but my electrical friend will be a great help, so dont worry Thanks people!

The equipment to be installed (limited mounting space) is:

* Siren with amp/speaker/controller
* Lighting controller
* Halogen Arrowstick/Signalmaster on rear interior deck with controller OR all 3-in-one controller (preferred)
* Hardwired LED Visor light
* Headlight/Taillight flasher
* Halogen Grille lights
* Pair of Unity pillar spotlights
* Quick disconnect fully loaded halogen lightbar
* Motorola CDM1550 UHF Radio and antenna.


My questions are:

1. Will all this high-amp draw halogen equipment drain the battery easily?
2. How would I go about setting up an alternate battery/electrical system to save the main battery, and would I have to charge the alternate battery, where would the alternate battery go?
3. What are the best mounting locations for switches, siren amp, headlight flasher box, radio etc when car has limited mounting space?
4. Where are the best, safest and easiest places to route wiring through the vehicle to get to specific locations?
5. If possible, what's the easiest way to make any lightbar quick disconnect, and where could I mount the plugs to keep the weather out?
6. What would happen if the lightbar functions were switched on while the lightbar is not connected to the quick disconnect plug?
7. Is there any way to install a volume knob switch that can switch the siren volume from 0-100 and how would I go about this?
8. How would I go about setting up 2-3 hidden master switches (one for siren, lights, arrowstick) to kill all operation of the control heads and prevent unauthorised use?
9. What are some basic install tools and consumables I will need for this project (drills, glue, screws, wire cover, sealant, etc)?
10. What are your recommendations for brands, and the best fully loaded but most lightweight halogen new or old used lightbar for those occasional install/removal times?

Thanks for putting up with the huge post people! Any help or suggestions (other than to hire a professional ) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance everyone!

[txshooter]

Hey - first and most importantly, plan, plan, plan some more, draw out your plan, then check your plan, and plan some more. A good bit of people skip this IMPORTANT step, but it will save you more time in the long run. A lot of how to set your car up will depend on the specifics of what you purchase in the way of equipment and your budget. The ideal situation, in my opinion, is either a Federal Signals Smart Siren (A bear to program though) or a Cencom from whelen. These setups keep the install within the passenger cabin neat and tidy and typically only require two cords from the base unit to the control head. If you get one of these, you can scratch your siren with amp/controller and lighting control. For your arrowstick problem, I would recommend a halogen model from whelen or FS. You can go led, they last longer, but it just looks wierd to me to mix and match halogen, strobe, led. Visor lights, I recommend anything from Whelen such as the Dual talon or slim miser. When you pick your wig-wag, get a good name brand that is solid state like whelen, show-me, etc. They can be a pain to wire in; same goes for tail light, but make sure it says for tail light. Another important factor, whether or not your headlights are positive or ground switched...it will matter. Grille lights are nice from far off, but keep in mind, if you are expected added intersection clearing power, i would recommend something off axis, preferably mounted at a 45 degree angle on like a push bumper. Now, another matter, the halogen light bar...dont...just dont. They are a HUGE power hog, HUGE maintenance hog, and a HUGE noise problem. If you still want a halogen, i personnaly prefer the Code 3 MX7000 with intersection sweepers, lower deck flashers on front and back, and take downs. Make sure that you also get rotators at different speeds so that they dont all turn on and rotate at the exact same time, diminishing the visibility. If you dont want to invest in the MX7000, please please please avoid the Vectors, my last job had those and they all flashed at once...no matter what we did. Your radio is a good solid radio and should work fine. Im not sure of the topography or the radio system in your area, but most places will only have 1/4 wave antennas. I do recommend a 5/8 wave, because it has better range far off, or even better, get a high gain UHF antenna.

As for your questions:

1. Yes, halogens will drain your battery in a matter of minutes if car is turned off.
2. You would need probably a second battery and a battery isolator. The most common place is in the trunk.
3. Switches should probably go between the seats if you have a column shifted car. If you get one of teh siren amps i suggested, i'd mount it in the trunk so that your siren controls/switches will all be in one, and then you can mount them where convenient
4. If you are doing trunk mounted options, run it between the back seats and teh wall to the trunk. Make sure you dont make any hard turns or lay the wire on sharp edges that will rub. For the front wires, make sure you rub them through a hole in the firewall and through a grommet. MAKE SURE YOU USE A GROMMET!
5. Don't do a quick disconnect.
6. See number 5.
7. You can install a potentiometer inline with the twin lead speaker wire to control the sound, but DONT. You'd have to get a really robust potentiometer to make sure you wouldnt melt it and it could become a serious liability if it gets turned down and you dont realise it.
8. You would basically do a "battery switch" and just hide it. You would run the 12v hot from the power source (read battery) and go to the switch and then to the end items. These are a good thing, but they are more commonly used to prevent battery drain.
9. Drills, 3/4 hole saw, GOOD crimpers, wire strippers, combo wrenches, crescent wrenches, bolt cutters, solderingiron, solder, heat shring, wire ties, grommets, wire pulling device (thats a technical name), rubber mallet, etc.
10. See my narrative above about the lightbar.

[Edited]Also - Kind of an idea of how long it will take...with the proper tools, all your equipment, and experience, we allowed 16-20 man hours for each full vehicle install. So with two of you, plan on a good two days to do the install.

[Pj]

If you planning on an all halogen install, prepare for some decent amp draw from the vehicle while everything is operating.

What is the vehicle going to be used for?
What is the budget?
Existing or new equipment?
Fleet car or a consumer car?

[losangelescop]

Ok, first off, thanks a lot to Bobby for all the help in the first reply! Great advice!

Now, on to PJ's comments:

If you planning on an all halogen install, prepare for some decent amp draw from the vehicle while everything is operating.

What is the vehicle going to be used for?
What is the budget?
Existing or new equipment?
Fleet car or a consumer car?

It is going to be used mainly for volunteer work, with a budget of around $1000 - $1200. The siren will most likely be new, maybe even the lightbar, but the rest is probably going to be second hand. As for the type of car, it will be a civillian model, with a bit of extra power of course!

Now as for how I'm going with the advice, it has been great so far, but I do need further help or clarification in some parts:

* Firstly, I need more help with the controller master switches. Instead of doing a 'battery switch', I would rather isolate all 3 components by seperate switches - one for the siren, one for the lighting controls, and one seperately for the arrowstick/signalmaster. Can anyone help with that?

*Secondly, What is now going on the vehicle is the following: Loaded halogen lightbar (probably MX7000), LED visor light, headlight flasher, halogen arrowstick, Carson SA-361 siren, and Motorola radio. I'm guessing with these Items I would need an alternate electrical system/battery. I need good instructions on how to do this. However, if I install the system on the standard battery, will it run outta juice if the car is switched on and the system is running?

* Lastly, although I do not wish to (and also per Bobby's above advice) I need to make the lightbar quick disconnect. How do I do this easily in a car without letting the elements get into the car or destroy the quick disconnect plugs, and what would happen if I switched the lightbar switches on when it wasn't attached to the vehicle? Anything bad? I will look into permanent mount on the MX7000 but as It is not needed on there all the time I dont think it's worth putting holes in this particular car.

Thanks everyone! (apologies again on the long post, but it must all be asked, clarified and decided upon *sigh*)

[ericw]

Provided that you use a proper connector that guards the pins so that they can not come into contact with the frame of your car, nothing will happen if you turn on the system when the lightbar is not connected. However, it is my opinion that you will have nothing but trouble with the quick disconnect. If it is outside, you will need to keep it lubricated with special grease to keep the contacts from corroding from rain and the elements. Plus, the connector will have to be rather beefy to handle the current of the halogen light bulbs.

Speaking of current, if you are using a late model auto, you will most likely find that you don't have enough power in the stock system to handle the required power. Todays autos use components that are on the edge of what is actually needed (to control costs.) Todays alternators are grossly inadequate to handle loads of an emergency vehicle. This is why the manufacturers offer vehicles with "police package." Just a word of caution that the alternator may need to be up-sized to keep things running. I bought an ambulance a few years ago and use it as a work truck. I lost the alternator last year and I found that there was no way that I could replace it with an auto alternator because I needed too much current even as a work truck. So the thing cost me over $900 That is an extreme example but you need to consider it.

Regarding your master control switches, a lot depends on whether you use high current switches or whether you use isolation relays or low current switching equipment. If you are using low current switches, you only need to interrupt the control voltages to the switches to disable those functions. If it is high current, then you need beefy switches and wiring to switch off that voltage.

I have found that electricians don't always make good auto techs. The wiring, its pathways, and flexibility in an auto is very different than wiring a house. You will be adding A LOT of wiring and you need to make sure that it is all protected and routed to allow for your safety of operating the vehicle. Everything must be properly fused and sized or you will end up with a charred ball of steel after the firemen get done with it.

You are taking on a big job, and while it can be done, there are lots of things that need to be considered. So take your time and get it done right the first time.

[losangelescop]

Hmmm, curious as to what type of volunteer in Australia is permitted sirens, lightbars etc ? Im in Australia and have never heard or seen a volunteers car with lightbars, sirens etc. You sure you are permitted to use these items ? (i think not) Correct me if im wrong...

I would have no Idea. I am helping a friend who is a volunteer and wants to install all of this stuff, He should know better than what I do about whether he is allowed to install this stuff or not, He asked for my help and I agreed to help him out, because, as a member of the board, I am into sirens, radios, lights, etc etc.

He's also decided to scrap the lightbar and go with a slicktop style with mainly LED's

I'll leave the legal stuff up to him, I'm pretty sure he has approval from his chief anyway...

Any help or suggestions (other than to hire a professional ) would be greatly appreciated.

If this install is legit, go to a professional

But that ruins all the fun....

[losangelescop]

I'm pretty sure he has approval from his chief anyway

Just my opinion, i would not touch it as im sure legislation only permits authorised Emergency Services and Dept's to use this equipment in Australia.

Whether he gets permission or not from his "Chief" it still does not change the fact that its a 99% chance he is breaking the law. And unless you want this matter to bite you on the a_ _, i suggest you tell him to take it to a professional installer and let it become there problem if anything further down the track arises.

As I understand it, the vehicle is going to be purchased in the departments name, and loaned to volunteers, so technically it wouldn't be breaking the law (as I said though, I have no idea what the laws are, so I have to trust that they know what they are doing. I'm highly considering getting a professional install job now though, as this looks to be way too much work for a beginner. Thanks for your helpful input.

Nic.

[losangelescop]

Understandable. Thanks.