Batboard

I just purchased a CDM1250 and I am a real hard time understanding scan lists and zones since this is my first time programming a Motorola CDM radio and I am only used to programming scanners. I have programmed a Radius M214 and M1225 before.

Is it true that I can only scan 16 channels at one time? If so, is this true for all Motorola radios?

I have searched through the Batboard and read everything I can, but I am still a little confused.

What is the difference between a scan list and a zone?

Is there any way to switch between different scan lists?

Any help or tips would be appreciated..

Most motorola radios will only scan up to 16 conventional channels at a time.


A scan list is a list of channels to be scanned, multiple scan lists are available in many radios.

A zone is a group of channels in a radio, like a bank in most scanners.


Say I only have one zone programmed, the scan list would usually be set per channel, such as...

If I hit scan while it is on Ch 1, it will scan Ch 1, 2, 5, 8, 12
If I hit scan while it is on Ch 2, it will scan Ch 2 & 5 only
If I hit scan while it is on Ch 11, it will scan Ch 2, 3, 4, 5, 11, & 14

So if your radio supports multiple scan lists, then you just select which scan list it "slaved" to each channel.


I'm sure when someone with more CDM experience will give further.

Thanks,
My radio is capable of multiple scan lists (I believe 4) and can hold 64 channels.

I am confused on your statements below. What is the logic behind this?

I understand that you have to place "Selected" in the Scan List in order for the selected channel to be scanned. I also understand that if you are stopped on a channel that has "Scan List 1" selected in its personality, you will scan "Scan List 1" correct?

I understand that Zones are like Banks in a scanner. Whay can't you just scan Zones, like you do Banks in a scanner? I still don't understand the relationship between scan lists and zones.

Why does Motorola make this so confusing or am I just stupid?

Grog wrote: Say I only have one zone programmed, the scan list would usually be set per channel, such as...
If I hit scan while it is on Ch 1, it will scan Ch 1, 2, 5, 8, 12
If I hit scan while it is on Ch 2, it will scan Ch 2 & 5 only
If I hit scan while it is on Ch 11, it will scan Ch 2, 3, 4, 5, 11, & 14
So if your radio supports multiple scan lists, then you just select which scan list it "slaved" to each channel.
I'm sure when someone with more CDM experience will give further.

If you come from the consumer scanner world, you tend to think of scan and zones (or "banks") as linked.

Not so in Motorolaland. Forget zones.

In a CDM, you have a list of "personalities." Each "personality" is a channel, though it does nothing until you assign it to a zone and slot. (Note that a given "personality" can be assigned to more than one zone/slot combination.) This is known as populating the zones.

After you have populated the zones, you can begin to create scan lists. Each scan list contains a reference for up to 16 members, one of which can be (and should be) the "Selected Channel."

After you have created your scan listes, now go back to the "personalities." Each personality can be assigned to one scan list. What this means is that if the personality is "selected" by the channel selection mechanism at the time that scan is invoked, the radio will scan the channels in the scan list assigned to that channel.

Bear a couple of things in mind.

First, these are working radios, not hobby radios. For 99.9% of the applications for which they were designed, a scan list capacity of 16 (or 15+1) is more than adequate.

Second, properly done, a given scan list can serve multiple functions. For instance, when "in town," you want to scan your dispatch and secondary channel, maybe the neighboring town's channel, and the mutual aid channel, with priority on the selected channel. When you go out of town and change to the other town's dispatch channel, however, all you want to do is scan the selected channel (as priority) and your local dispatch. (This means that when you get back to town and forget to put the radio back on ch. 1, you still won't be embarassed by missing a call.) A total of two scan lists will accomplish theses functions for all the channels you have in the radio.

OK RKG that helps somewhat..

What I want to do is set my radio up for different sections in the County. South, North, and Noth East. I still want my main dispatch channels to be scanned all the time. When I am in the North zone, I want to scan the North Channels and the main channels. How would I do this?


Your last paragraph confuses me. How would you change scan lists? When you get back in town, how would you change back from scan list 2 to 1?

RKG wrote: Second, properly done, a given scan list can serve multiple functions. For instance, when "in town," you want to scan your dispatch and secondary channel, maybe the neighboring town's channel, and the mutual aid channel, with priority on the selected channel. When you go out of town and change to the other town's dispatch channel, however, all you want to do is scan the selected channel (as priority) and your local dispatch. (This means that when you get back to town and forget to put the radio back on ch. 1, you still won't be embarassed by missing a call.) A total of two scan lists will accomplish theses functions for all the channels you have in the radio.

The scanlist is chosen automatically based on what channel the radio is "parked" on.


How many channels are in each are you are wanting to scan? If it's a lot, you might want to break them up into the separate zones.

Let's say you have four zones: Home, North, South, West.

When home, you want to listen to SelCh and 2 others.

When on N, S or W you want to listen to 2 channels unique to each zone and 2 channels from home.

Need four lists:

1) SelCh and 2 home channels.
2) Two N channels and 2 home channels.
3) Two S channels and 2 home channels.
4) Two W channels and 2 home channels.

Assign Scan List 1 to the channels in your home zone; SL 2 to the channels in the North zone; SL 3 to the channels in the South zone; and SL 4 to the channels in the West zone.

Now, let's complicate things and assume that Channel X wants to be in each zone. But you want to scan different lists, depending on which zone you're in, even when Channel X is selected.

What you do is program 4 Channel X "personalities" and put the one with SL 1 tagged to it in Zone 1, the one with SL 2 tagged to it in Zone 2, etc.

It may take a while, but if you ponder real hard, and bearing in mind that these are working radios, not hobby radios, it will all begin to fit into a sensible pattern.

With the example above I would have to program 9 channels total into the radio?
2 home channels, 2 N channels, 2 S channels and 2 W channels, 1 SelCH
Am I correct in thinking that?

I am still a little confused.

No.

For the hypothesized simple example, you program as follows:

Personality Programing:
1 Home 1 SL1
2 Home 2 SL1
3 Home 3 SL1
4 Home 4 SL1
5 Home 1 SL2
6 Home 2 SL2
7 North 1 SL2
8 North 2 SL2
9 Home 1 SL3
10 Home 2 SL3
11 South 1 SL3
12 South 2 SL3
13 Home 1 SL4
14 Home 2 SL4
15 West 1 SL4
16 West 1 SL4

Channel Programming:

Zone 1
1 Pers 1
2 Pers 2
3 Pers 3
4 Pers 4

Zone 2
1 Pers 5
2 Pers 6
3 Pers 7
4 Pers 8

Zone 3
1 Pers 9
2 Pers 10
3 Pers 11
4 Pers 12


Zone 4
1 Pers 13
2 Pers 14
3 Pers 15
4 Pers 16


Scan Lists:

List 1:
<SelCh> P1
Z1C1
Z1C2
Z1C3
Z1C4

List 2:
<SelCh> P1
Z2C1
Z2C2
Z2C3
Z2C4

List 3:
<SelCh> P1
Z3C1
Z3C2
Z3C3
Z3C4

List 4:
<SelCh> P1
Z4C1
Z4C2
Z4C3
Z4C4

Here's what you get.

Go to home zone and select any channel. You will scan all the home zone channels, with priority on the selected channel.

Go to any other zone. You will scan Home 1 and Home 2, plus the other channels in tha zone, with priority on the selected channel.

Suggestion:

Read this through a couple of times. If you still have questions, program the radio as instructed and see what happens; it should make it all clear.

The Motorola metaphors for programming programmable radios is an evolution. As a practical matter, it began with the Systems Saber (there were prior metaphors, but they were kludgy and later abandonned), evolved into the veneral MTSX, took a side detour through the CDM/Pro Series (in my judgment, a slight improvement on MTSX), and are now into the XTL/XTS (in my judgment a bit of a retrograde). It may seem confusing if this is your first foray into professional radios, but it actually makes sense.

List 2

What is the purpose of adding a "Selected Channel" to each scan list? Doesn't this waste one available channel to be scanned? I don't under stand the concept. I thought the radio will scan the scan list that the selected channel is associated with?

Are there any Motorola's that can scan more then 16 channels?

1) Because you will have selected the channel because either (a) it is the one on which you will hear a dispatch, if you are idle, or (b) it relates to the call, box or still on which you have been assigned -- and, in either case, by definition hearing traffic on that channel is more important than hearing traffic on any other.

2) Not to my knowledge. There are binomial expansions that will quantify the probability of missing something as the size of a scan list increases, but they are complicated. Trust me: if the scan list exceeds 4 or 5 channels, you should re-think your comms strategy. Few, if any, professional situations require or will tolerate scan lists anywhere near 15-plus-one channels.

I get it now, very good explination. It is really redundant in a way. The scan list, and zones contain the same channels in the same order. Why couldn't they eliminate scan lists and just make zones with the option of adding or deleting a channel in the zone lists from the selected scan list.

My ICOM radios are a lot different, very similar programing a newer type scanner(BCT15) with dynamic scan lists and banks.

I get the "Selected Channel" concept now also. To make the "Selected Channel" priority you have to go to the "General" tab in the scan list and click on the "Priority 1 (First Scan List Member)" option, correct? I see there is an option for a second Priority also.

My M1225 can scan 24 channels. I modified the codeplug on my M214 to hold 40 channels, but It still will scan only 16. I also programmed the M214 to receive out of band.

How would you do a "binomial expansion"?

I would like to scan more then 16 channels due to all the interop and Public Safety frequencies that I want to monitor and use when needed. I guess that is what scanners are made for.

I have tried scanners before, but they all end up becoming "deaf'. All the transmissions from a 50watt radio makes the the scanner lose its sensitivity(burns up the pre-amp or front end??). Anyone know how I could prevent this?

After doing some research I learned that the Syntor X9000 and GP68 will scan more then 16 channels. Anyone know how many?

MB wrote:How would you do a "binomial expansion"?

Figure of speech. It's a mathematical theorem, not a modification for radios.

MB wrote:I would like to scan more then 16 channels due to all the interop and Public Safety frequencies that I want to monitor and use when needed. I guess that is what scanners are made for.

Yep. That's a lot of listening. Too much for me.

MB wrote: I have tried scanners before, but they all end up becoming "deaf'. All the transmissions from a 50watt radio makes the the scanner lose its sensitivity(burns up the pre-amp or front end??). Anyone know how I could prevent this?

Most scanners i know are pretty deaf from the get-go, due to the broad spectrum of frequency space they are listening to...