Batboard

This is not necessarily Motorola specific; however the backbone 800MHz is a Motorola Type II SmartZone system. It also primarily pertains to VHF-HI but it could include UHF as well.

That said…..

In 2013 everyone in VHF-Hi and UHF will be narrowband. For the FD I'm a member of, this will mean acquiring about 40 radios (mobiles + portables). At present, the state I'm in (NC) is in the process of constructing a statewide 800 MHz system.

Since the state is in the process of completing the 800 MHz system (it's called VIPER), would our best option be to not buy any more VHF equipment and save up for the 800MHz system? Cost of 40 radios ~ $1,500.00 * 40 = $60,000.00 (minimum), or should we continue to buy VHF radios (narrowband capable) at a cost of $750.00 * 40 = $30,000.00 (maximum)?

I have never used a trunked system and I know on paper it really looks good, however I have used our conventional VHF system and it may not have many bells and whistles; but it works 24-7-365 no matter the conditions, especially simplex.

I hope the state has made all necessary provisions, for a fail safe system, but if a hurricane came through, and happen to knock out a couple of towers, would the trunked system work? The state has already said that paging will continue to be separate from the 800MHz system, so I assume the county will still maintain the current paging system (although converted to narrowband). If a few FD’s remain on VHF-Hi, and we totally switched to 800MHz, what would happen on mutual aid calls? Will the communications-center have a patch to link us together? Will we have gone from interoperable to un-interoperable?

It’s seems like the state and federal government is spending millions, and millions on new radio systems, and I agree that they can do a lot more than with conventional systems, but do totally volunteer fire departments really need to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on radios? I can see how a larger city such as Charlotte can justify the expense, but a rural department that answers less than 100 fires a year justify it?

If we had all narrowband equipment right now, I seriously doubt that we would migrate to 800MHz for several years, if at all. I know we are not the only volunteer FD in the country that is facing a narrowband mandate and has other possibilities as well.

I’m not being critical of the state’s 800MHz system, it just seems like converting to 800MHz is overboard for our needs. What would you do?

Please help!

Interoperability isn't just radios. It starts with people who understand the needs & issues & come up with solutions before it's a problem, such as yourself, but hopefully on a broader scale as well.
There have to be options presented to small departments so they can decide the best course of action to take.

As a case in point, we have a province wide 800MHz Motorola system, in use by the RCMP, Dept of Natural Resources, Dept of Transportation, Dept of Corrections, Vehicle Compliance, etc, etc. Although a few FDs & PDs have switched entirely over to it, most haven't. When it was first brought into operation 8 years ago, every fire & police department in the province were given "seed radios"...a single 800MHz mobile & portable (MTS & MCS2000) by the provincial government for interoperability's sake. For most small FDs & PDs, this has worked just fine. Some other departments have settled somewhere in between and purchased Futurecom units to facilitate crossbanding, or use their existing consoles to do the same. There is also a central dispatch center which can be used to patch almost any two entities together through their Centracom consoles. Even further, the RCMP have their own Centracom system for further patching needs & have approx 200 talkgroups in their field radios so they can liason with most entities with out the need for patching.

In short it takes planning by everyone involved to facilitate proper interoperability systems & protocols.

Does your department have it's own console which could patch 800 & VHF? Or do you currently get paged through a dispatch location which could do the same? This has worked fine here. Maybe get a single 800 MHz mobile & portable as a backup, you should be good to go. As long as your VHF system suits your needs for coverage & reliability, no need for a wholesale switchout.

Todd

Just like Todd noted, interoperability is a people/protocol issue just as much as an equipment issue. There are tons of products on the market, but if you can't get the field users to use it then its worthless. Since 2001 I have worked to assemble almost 60 agencies on the same page so they can all communicate when the need arises. Some of these users use the County TRS on a full time basis and some don't, that is totally their option.

http://www.pbcgov.com/fdo/ESS/Downloads ... 2-2007.pdf
http://www.pbcgov.com/fdo/ESS/800MHz_In ... bility.htm

It also doesn't cost thousands to access if you don't want it to. I have had agencies purchase low lier MT1500, XTS1500, of XTL1500 mobile radios for interop. for their key people and the rest of the troops stay on their own system. And the other hand I've had agencies spend hundreds of thousands because thier current systems weren't cutting the mustard and it became a safety issue for the field users.

It would be best to first evaluate the needs, get involved with their user committee (if they have one), read their interoperability SOP's, and ask other agencies to see how they do it. I'm sure your not alone in the decision making process.

As to the failure modes, I went through 3 hurricanes and while we took some damage (feedlines, bent over antennas, water intrusion in one generator) we faired pretty well even though the busy que at some times was 30 deep and a 3 second wait time for approximately 10K users.

rescuer wrote: I’m not being critical of the state’s 800MHz system, it just seems like converting to 800MHz is overboard for our needs. What would you do?

Well I live in NC and see how the VIPER progress is going, so your first question to answer is..... What are your neighbors doing?

Most of NC is grouped by county as far as the bands they use, most of NC is VHF-hi for fire operations. What would you gain if your one department went to VIPER while all your mutual aid stations stayed on VHF? If you routinely have mutual aid calls with your neighboring counties, you have to concider what they will be doing as well.

Hickory police has had an 800mhz system for years (EDCAS) but Hickory fire has stayed on their supurb VHF system and by doing so they have direct comms with the county fire & EMS units instead of a console patch.

800mhz for fire use is a serious choice to make, it works for Charlotte/Mecklenburg but they have a well built system with seven (or eight?) sites where the VIPER sites are spread out much further. VIPER is being built for the states needs, and those do not involve structual fire fighting. Some counties will not have any sites (out of the 238 that will be spread among 100 counties) so some ocunties are going to have to pay to put up additional sites if they want truly complete coverage.