Batboard

I know that this is an off topic discussion. (Sorry) But we need an answer.

25 years ago, we were involved in a discussion about unit call signs. One of the people suggested that we use our proper names. (i.e. John Smith) Our radio guy (An old timer that has since passed. We used to tease him about being Marconi's assistant.) at the time pulled out a copy of the CFR's and found a rule that prohibited the use of proper names as unit designators. This discussion is now being resurrected by one of the services in our group.

Does this rule still exist? If so, what part and section?

Thanks: I remember seeing it at the time, but you all know about old age!

Garyf629 wrote:I know that this is an off topic discussion. (Sorry) But we need an answer.

25 years ago, we were involved in a discussion about unit call signs. One of the people suggested that we use our proper names. (i.e. John Smith) Our radio guy (An old timer that has since passed. We used to tease him about being Marconi's assistant.) at the time pulled out a copy of the CFR's and found a rule that prohibited the use of proper names as unit designators. This discussion is now being resurrected by one of the services in our group.

Does this rule still exist? If so, what part and section?

Thanks: I remember seeing it at the time, but you all know about old age!

That would be rather unusual considering USFS and BLM use full names as call signs on the VHF and UHF-Lo nets here in Idaho...

(double posted)

Cowboy wrote:

Garyf629 wrote:I know that this is an off topic discussion. (Sorry) But we need an answer.

25 years ago, we were involved in a discussion about unit call signs. One of the people suggested that we use our proper names. (i.e. John Smith) Our radio guy (An old timer that has since passed. We used to tease him about being Marconi's assistant.) at the time pulled out a copy of the CFR's and found a rule that prohibited the use of proper names as unit designators. This discussion is now being resurrected by one of the services in our group.

Does this rule still exist? If so, what part and section?

Thanks: I remember seeing it at the time, but you all know about old age!

That would be rather unusual considering USFS and BLM use full names as call signs on the VHF and UHF-Lo nets here in Idaho...

Yes fine, but isn't USFS and BLM covered under NTIA and not the FCC? (I really don't know)

A unit of a radio/FCC licensee may use any tactical identifier or unit identifier, these unit identifiers should be in the station log. They may NOT be in place of the FCC assigned station call sign.

90.425

(5) Use of identifiers in addition to assigned call signs. Nothing
in this section shall be construed as prohibiting the transmission of
station or unit identifiers which may be necessary or desirable for
system operation, provided that they are transmitted in addition to the
assigned station call sign or other permissible form of identification.

I agree with Gary. I remember seeing the old rule against using proper names.

Will wrote:A unit of a radio/FCC licensee may use any tactical identifier or unit identifier, these unit identifiers should be in the station log. They may NOT be in place of the FCC assigned station call sign.

90.425

(5) Use of identifiers in addition to assigned call signs. Nothing
in this section shall be construed as prohibiting the transmission of
station or unit identifiers which may be necessary or desirable for
system operation, provided that they are transmitted in addition to the
assigned station call sign or other permissible form of identification.

I guess that my question is what are the "permissible form of identification" ? According to the FCC.

Commercial and PS ID procedures and practices are all over the lot, such as:

County 1: IDs by dispatcher's voice every day at midnight
County 2. IDs by MCW* every ten minutes (drives everyone nuts)
County 3. IDs by dispatcher's voice every transmission (Urk!)
*MCW = modulated continuous wave, in Morse code

Name ten agencies and you'll probably come up with ten ID schemes.

As an example would the following be legal: "John Smith to HQ" ?

The prohibition of using names as "callsigns" is found in ACP-125, which is the military protocol for voice comms. Remember, in military communications, callsigns are used to obscure the identity of the station, not make it clear.
That said, little of the military comms these days is unencrypted, and ACP-125 isn't the bible it once was.

Hartley

Garyf629 wrote:As an example would the following be legal: "John Smith to HQ" ?

Sure, long as the required station ID is also made at the required intervals. Many systems that use a CW ID do so with PL stripped,
so it's transparent to users.

Garyf629 wrote:As an example would the following be legal: "John Smith to HQ" ?

APCO prefers the Calling then Caller format, i.e. HQ, John Smith...

Tom in D.C. wrote:Commercial and PS ID procedures and practices are all over the lot, such as:

County 1: IDs by dispatcher's voice every day at midnight
County 2. IDs by MCW* every ten minutes (drives everyone nuts)
County 3. IDs by dispatcher's voice every transmission (Urk!)
*MCW = modulated continuous wave, in Morse code

Name ten agencies and you'll probably come up with ten ID schemes.

Don't forget about County 4 that NEVER identifies. You'd be surprised (or perhaps not) at how many public safety agencies are out there who never identify.

Every base station I do work on, if it has an internal automatic ID feature (MSF 5000, MTR 2000, Quantar, etc.), and I KNOW the correct callsign, I program it in and turn it on if it isn't already. 90% of the units I work on do not have their identifiers programmed in and enabled.

It's interesting to see who runs their radios in monitor once the identifier is turned on. Lots of calls wondering what the morse code is all about. Once you tell them that the identification is required and that they are NOW in compliance with FCC requirements when they were not previously, all of a sudden everyone loves it... Or stops running in monitor mode

I didn't even want to bring up the people who never identify;
they're so far "out there" that there's no hope for them.

Your story about the CW ID is a good one.

Regards,