Saber Secure I 403-433MHz - a few questions

[g8tzl2004]

I have a UHF Saber Secure I 403-433MHz. The radio is hopefully OK for the UK 70cms band 430-440 MHz. I have a few questions:

- there is no audio on TX. I understand that this is due to a missing encryption module. I have read that there are dummy modules which can be inserted to bypass the encryption. You can also solder a link directly to the underside of the PCB. I'm interested in views on the best way to bypass the encryption? Can you make a homebrew dummy module?

- Is it easy to open the radio. I think you just release the 2 screws on the base and push up??

- I have RSS version R07.01.00. I noticed that you can input freqs upto 434.0 MHz (NOT 433Mhz). Are there any simple tricks to extend the input range upto 435Mhz? (shift key trick does not work)

- I read about hex editing the RSS BUT there was no mention of having to get the checksum matching - is this not required ie. all you need to do is just change the band limits?

Thanks

[Zack08]

To answer your first question: All the dummy module is is a metal and plastic piece with nothing but one jumper wire inside. Theres no reason to make a homebrew dummy module. Its just one wire......

I'll leave the rest of the questions for somebody else to answer.

[Osprey]

Opening Sabers is a fairly easy task, yeah. The screws will just remove the battery plate (impeding further dissasembly; forget about them). The spanner nuts on the bottom are what you need to loosen. Some Security bit sets have usable bits, failing that you can take smallish needle-nose pliers and carefully loosen them. Be careful not to actually remove the spanner nuts, they're annoying to get back into place.

Once the spanners are loose, pull on the antenna and it'll slip out of the case. Don't press any of the side buttons, or you may shear off the rubber tabs that make contact with the flex.

[Elroy Jetson]

WARNING!!! DO NOT PUSH THE RADIO OUT OF THE HOUSING BY PUSHING ON THE STUDS FROM THE BOTTOM!!!!

This can, and does, cause the threaded stud to push out of the frame.


Instead, loosen the nuts, grab the antenna, and PULL the radio out of the housing.


The 403-430 split UHF Saber won't go into the 440 range. No way. The software won't allow it and the hardware won't
work up that high either. You'd need to change out almost every module in the radio for the 440-470 bandsplit modules,
and frankly you'd be better off to just buy another radio in the 440-470 band. And keep your existing one (assuming it works)
just to have a spare main circuit board in the unlikely event that you have a failure on your main circuit board.


Elroy

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks for the feedback.

When I said "screws" , I actually meant "spanner nuts"

It looks like the spanner nuts on my Saber have already been loosened as I can fit a screwdriver right across the nut slots - there is no bolt thread in the way!!! How do I tell when the spanner nuts are loose enough?

Dummy encryption module - I've seen pictures of the wire link soldered to the underside of the PCB. However, are there 2 tabs on the other side of the PCB where you can make a link??

Once you remove the outer casing , do you need to remove any shielding to get to where the dummy module /wire link is located?

Elroy Jetson - I only want 430-439MHz coverage for UK ham band

Thanks

[Osprey]

If they already aren't very tight, it probably won't take very much. I just tried it for the first time in a while, you want to loosen them enough that the center peg in the spanners appear to recede, and the spanners/shrouds themselves are relatively easy to move around. Do it a few times and you'll get a feel for it.

Once decased, there's three shielding plates on a model 1. You'll need to take off the front and the side to get to where the crypto module is.

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks Osprey.

Anybody know if I will be able to read/write to the Saber I with NO wire link/dummy module installed?

Thanks

[motorola_otaku]

Anybody know if I will be able to read/write to the Saber I with NO wire link/dummy module installed?

Absolutely. The crypto module (or bypass) isn't part of the data chain.

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks

Hex editing to extend band limits - anybody know if there is NO need to make the checksum match ie. you just simply alter the band limits? With other radios such as the GP300 , you have to add/remove a few characters to get back to the original checksum.

Dummy module - I'm not sure what one looks like - I guess its like 1 inch square - can I just make one from some thick cardboard/wood - presumably I just need 2 connected metal tabs glued to homebrew module which will rest against the contact points on the radio??

Thanks

[FireCpt809]

http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorol ... index.html

A wealth of Saber Info.. A dummy module can look like a regualr secure module. You have to read the part # to be sure or it looks like a plastic off white plug with the jumper wire moulded into it.

[Will]

Somewhere on here there is a photo of a jumper that bypasses the encryption module. Just a buss wire that plugs into the 'motherboard'.

[g8tzl2004]

I've successfully programmed the Saber I on some in-band freqs.

The Saber was performing well on RX and was TXing OK although there was no audio because I've yet to insert an encryption module bypass link.

After a few hours , the Saber was running hot just on receive.

I've searched the archives and there is mention of a bad pa module which draws current even though there is no drive

Any thoughts? The spanner nuts are also a bit loose causing the battery to wobble slightly - but I doubt that's causing the problem?

[Elroy Jetson]

Yeah, you probably need a new PA module. But fortunately they should be dirt cheap in that bandsplit.

Sabers should not run hot unless you're transmitting a great deal. In receive they should never warm up to any noticeable degree.


Elroy

[g8tzl2004]

I've been running the Saber I on RX only for about 6 hours with a temperature module next to it - radio is running about 2.2 degrees centrigrade higher than room temp (not sure of Farenheit ). The battery feels cooler but the main body does not feel abnormally hot - but its a warmer day today anyway

Maybe the pa is intermmitent or maybe you get a strange "heat up when battery voltage gets lower" effect??

After 6 hours squelched monitoring, battery is at 7.5V . How long does the battery last when you have the faulty pa problem - is it still hours or ,say 30 minutes?

Thanks

[g8tzl2004]

I have now successfully installed a wire link to by pass the missing Saber encryption module.

The Repeater Builder site has great info BUT it shows a picture of a wire link soldered to the underside of the PCB. All that is really required is a small piece of thin insulated wire pushed into the pin sockets on the other side of the PCB between pins 1 and 17.

As suggested by other back in 2002 (I finally worked out how to make the archive search work!!!) , I just used a twist tie thingy!!! Wire thickness was just right. I cut it to the right length and striped about 3/16 inch and filed the ends to make a nice finish. I read that its advisable not to use more wire than you actually need. Others also used mini coxial cable and grounded the outer screen to avoid RF pick up. It all seems so simple now !!!

All I need to do now is hex edit the RSS to get TX above 434MHz - and hope the PA is not faulty

[g8tzl2004]

I have now hex edited the Saber RSS to provide TX upto 440MHz. It was very easy to do using the info on the Repeater Builder site - no need for any checksum matching!!!

I am now noticing a problem when I TX from cold - its like the TX VCO goes out of lock - you get a beep beep beep and no TX - not at the 1st PTT press but , say the 3rd and 4th press of the PTT from cold. Once the set "warms up" , the problem seems to disappear. It happens on "in band" freqs so its not due to being to far from the band edge ie. it happened on 430.9MHz as well as 438.5 MHz.

Any thought? Faulty VCO , poor contact between VCO module and main PCB?

[g8tzl2004]

I think the RX VCO is also going out of lock - sometimes a RX signal disappears for a fraction of a second and then back to normal. It might happen once every couple of minutes until the radio is warmed up.

On TX , when the problem happens , you get no TX and beep beep beep BUT if you just release the PTT a couple of times , your back to normal operation.

Any thoughts?

[DJP126]

I think the RX VCO is also going out of lock - sometimes a RX signal disappears for a fraction of a second and then back to normal. It might happen once every couple of minutes until the radio is warmed up.

On TX , when the problem happens , you get no TX and beep beep beep BUT if you just release the PTT a couple of times , your back to normal operation.

Any thoughts?

RX VCO, TX VCO are the same module and from your descriptions, it sounds like you have found the problem or the reference oscillator might be going out. As for the "warm to the touch sides of the radio" definitely the PA.

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks DPJ126.

Any idea if removing the VCO module and cleaning the pins might help? Or is it usually component failure (leaky caps??) which cause the problem?

Thanks

[DJP126]

Thanks DPJ126.

Any idea if removing the VCO module and cleaning the pins might help? Or is it usually component failure (leaky caps??) which cause the problem?

Thanks

Removing and cleaning can't hurt but be careful when putting it back in. The pins are delicate. If it is a component issue, find a replacement. Even at the depot we were not successful opening the module for servicing. You can get the cover off, but getting the board out to gain access to the parts on the other side of the board is another story (and a nightmare at that!).

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks.

Is there a correct way to remove the modules? Do you just carefully lift them out? Do you need to use a small screwdriver or something to provide some leverage?

Thanks

[Keygun]

The phenomenon with the PLL unlocking is not uncommon on Sabers, which are programmed with out-of-band-frequencies via a hacked RSS. That`s why i leave the RSS untouched. If i really need out-of-band-frequencies, i use a hex-editor to insert them directly to the codeplug. So the RSS stays unaltered and it still don`t realizes that there is something "forbidden" going on. It`s a little bit of fiddling, but i never had any problems.

I`m using some lowsplit-radios (normally pretty useless) for our yakking-frequencies (Simplex) in the 434.800MHz-range and they are working perfect. Sensitivity is a little better down there than the sensitivity measured on high-split-radios - no real sursprise. I don`t have the heart to scrap the low-split stuff. Hey, they are Sabers......

Leaky caps are not a issue with the Sabers. If memory serves me, there is not one single Electrolytic-cap inside, "only" high-quality Tantalum-caps.

Keygun

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks Keygun.

Did you mod the RPFDATA.DCT file rather than extending the Saber RSS band limits??

My 440-470Mhz MX1000 seems to be working OK using hacked RSS and its operating 6-9 MHz out of band. The 403-433MHz Saber is only operating around 1-2 MHz out of band.

Any idea if the Secure Bypass "wire" with no shielding might cause VCO instability? I am running the Saber at "Medium" power rather than "High" power.

Do I need to write back the original codeplug into the Saber before I mod the RPFDATA.DCT file?

Thanks

[Keygun]

If the wire jumper is too long, you maybe get problems with RF-pickup at higher
power levels. This can cause some squealing noise on transmit. So it is always
a good plan to keep the wire as short as possible. Should work without problems
then.

Yes, the lowsplit radios are not that widebanded, but (at last for me) those 2 - 3
additional MHz are perfect. It saved the radios from being scrapped or butchered.

If i remember correct, there are some strange splitband-models of the MX1000-family
out there: TX in lowband, RX in highband and vice versa. Maybe a thing to look for. But
they need a special RSS (what else?) which is really hard to find. Regular RSS is not
usable!

Modification of rpfdata.dct? The rpfdata.dct-file is only a list of your saved codeplugs.
If the codeplug was not saved first, there is no entry in rpfdata.dct for this specific
codeplug and therefore this codeplug is non-existent for the RSS. So you have to
read the radios codeplug and save it before playing.

No file of the RSS is modified. I open the radios codeplug-file via an hexeditor, look
for the frequency entry of the desired channel location(s) and replace it with the
calculated new values (Hex). OK, this one is only practical, if you have only a few
channels to do. Otherwise it can drive you mad....

Keygun

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks Keygun.

I originally made sure that the wire jumper was as small as possible.

I will experiment with altering the codeplug using a hex editor. Its interesting that US hams don't seem to be reporting problems when hacking the RSS down to 144MHz for VHF Sabers. Maybe its just with the UHF 403-433MHz radios?

I have previously come across special MX1000 RSS for the Dutch and Italian markets - maybe this is for the odd split radios?

73

[Keygun]

No, it is not only on UHF lowsplit -radios. You can encounter the mentioned
problem on all bands, but only on a few frequencies. If you are a lucky guy
everything works fine on your desired channels. To this day i was not able
to determine the system behind this. So it`s still some kind of russian
roulette.

Yes and no. I know the real old Dutch-RSS and i know it is able to read the
splitband-radios, even it is not the correct RSS. But i never checked, if it
leaves the setting for the bandsplits untouched or destroys the split-information
during programming the radio.

Keygun