Batboard

Hello,

I have some XTL2500 radios that are programmed for two different trunking systems. We need to scan some talkgroups from each of the systems. The Radios are set to scan for multi system, scan on/off and program is set up and talkgroups have been added into the scanlist.

What is happening is sometimes the radio is not scanning reliably. Meaning that it will not scan traffic on system 2, when there is valid traffic on the talkgroup that is in the scan list. In addition, while on the talkgroups that are in system 1 the scan and scan program icons are visible. If you go to system 2 talkgroups I loose the menu and scan options, even though they are in the scan list (list 1which is the only list). Don't know why that is happening?

Some highlights
Radios are legally programmed
Both systems I believe are set to auto affiliate
The mobiles in question are all within range of the systems, so it is not a reception issue
I have tried to disable the HUB, in thinking a bad ground on the mic putting the radio in and out of scan, no luck.

Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks, Rob

This is why multi-system scan is generally frowned upon.

In this type of scan, the radio monitors one system's control channel for a certain amount of time (couple seconds?) then goes to monitor the other system's control channel for a couple seconds for valid talkgroup activity. You're not hearing activity on the other system when the radio is scanning and locked onto a different control channel.

With auto-affiliate, you may also have an issue where the radio is affiliating and de-affiliating with the system before switching back, but here I'm hoping Motorola worked around that because there'd be a LOT of transmitting going on.

As much as people keep wanting to monitor different trunking system at the same time with a single radio,
this is not a good idea. It takes too long for the radio to sync with the control channel after it finds it.
If it is that important to listen to 2 trunking systems at the same time, get a second radio. Otherwise
you will never be happy with the results you get.

Jim

FMROB wrote:Hello,

I have some XTL2500 radios that are programmed for two different trunking systems. We need to scan some talkgroups from each of the systems. The Radios are set to scan for multi system, scan on/off and program is set up and talkgroups have been added into the scanlist.

What is happening is sometimes the radio is not scanning reliably. Meaning that it will not scan traffic on system 2, when there is valid traffic on the talkgroup that is in the scan list. In addition, while on the talkgroups that are in system 1 the scan and scan program icons are visible. If you go to system 2 talkgroups I loose the menu and scan options, even though they are in the scan list (list 1which is the only list). Don't know why that is happening?

Some highlights
Radios are legally programmed
Both systems I believe are set to auto affiliate
The mobiles in question are all within range of the systems, so it is not a reception issue
I have tried to disable the HUB, in thinking a bad ground on the mic putting the radio in and out of scan, no luck.

Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks, Rob

OK,

I am understanding this. As a side note we have XTS portables programmed the same way, with scan and have much better scan results with the portables.

Is there a setting or option that I might be able to tighten up. It is so bad that sometimes system 2 will never even scan. Is the auto-affiliate an issue, and can that be changes to PTT like the MCS and MTS radios? Any pointers on this problem would help!

Thanks, Rob

I think part of the answer to your question might lie in how the radio system manager is trying to run the
trunking system. If that person is not aware of how your trying to program these radios, you might be in
for a loud father to son talk before you get your radios working the way you want. If it happens at all.

On the question of auto affiliate, yes it will slow things way down and add to the system overhead
traffic. Not a good idea to keep causing your radio to affiliate every couple of seconds. Some where
along the way, you might have that radio killed by the administrator. Then no one can program it.

Messing with the radio trunking programming without the systems administrator knowing about it is like saying
you don't like your job anymore. Don't know about your system, but I have seen many agencies fire people
for messing with the radio programming. Best you walk carefully on what you do with your radio programming.

The other question I would ask is how did you obtain the systems key to be able to change any of the trunking
settings? This is another reason that some agencies have a short fuse for people programming radios.

Jim

FMROB wrote:OK,

I am understanding this. As a side note we have XTS portables programmed the same way, with scan and have much better scan results with the portables.

Is there a setting or option that I might be able to tighten up. It is so bad that sometimes system 2 will never even scan. Is the auto-affiliate an issue, and can that be changes to PTT like the MCS and MTS radios? Any pointers on this problem would help!

Thanks, Rob

An XTS/XTL in multi-system scan doesn't affiliate every time it cycles between systems.

If the XTSs work fine and the XTLs don't, then there's an issue with the XTLs. I want to say that, somewhere, there's a mimimum time to remain on a control channel... if that time is too high, you'll experience such behavior. I don't have the time to go digging right now, unfortunately.

tvsjr wrote:An XTS/XTL in multi-system scan doesn't affiliate every time it cycles between systems.

If the XTSs work fine and the XTLs don't, then there's an issue with the XTLs. I want to say that, somewhere, there's a mimimum time to remain on a control channel... if that time is too high, you'll experience such behavior. I don't have the time to go digging right now, unfortunately.

Both statements above are correct. The auto-affiliate function does not apply and system affiliation is neither attempted nor necessary when scanning multiple trunking systems or when scanning a trunking system from a conventional personality.

Also, the setting that determines how long the radio monitors the control channel of a system associated with talkgroups in a scan list is found under the Scan menu:

Scan > Scan Configuration > Trunking tab > "system search time"

"System Search Time" can have a value from 1 to 255 seconds. During this time the radio is listening for channel grants to all talkgroups in the scan list for that system on the associated control channel. It will not receive any traffic on any conventional personalities or on talkgroups from a different trunking system in the scanlist during this time.

keep in mind when setting the system search time: If a channel grant is received for a scanned TG, this timer is reset at the end of the received transmission and the radio will remain on that control channel for another full search time. Also, when the timer expires the radio will jump to the next conventional channel in the scan list or the the system CC of the selected channel.

FMROB wrote:In addition, while on the talkgroups that are in system 1 the scan and scan program icons are visible. If you go to system 2 talkgroups I loose the menu and scan options, even though they are in the scan list (list 1which is the only list). Don't know why that is happening?

You say they are "in the same list", but in the "TRUNKING PERSONALITY" window under the tab "SCAN" do you have them set to a list other than "NONE"?

I will take a look at both of those parameters and see what I have. Like I said it is a sparatic thing. Sometimes it works and sometimes it refuses to scan. I just don't understand why I am not getting the menu items in both zones/systems? But I will check further.

To be clear, there are no trunking parameters being changed. In any case system keys are not required to change general radio settings such as scan, backlight, display, etc., only trunking paramters. Everything is on the up and up, I have been around this block before once or twice.

Thanks, Rob I will report my findings for all.