Batboard

Good Morning,

I have a quick question about the programming of rebanded freqs into an MTS2k (I hope this is the right forum for that):

Simply put: if my MTS2000 is rebandable, and I can type in the new CC frequencies with no problems (I.E. red), then is there any reason that I would need to flash /update firmware?

I was given the reason about the FCC 800 MHz channel table, but if it didnt have the appropriate table I would assume it would let me enter the new frequencies.

Thanks!

What is the model number and current firmware version of the radio in question?


-Marc

There are a plethora of models (they are all obviously 800 MHz)...and firmwares I am sure.

Is there a firmware level where problems are fixed.

I.E. if you have firmware older than XX.XX.XX then you will have problem ________ with rebanding.

I wouldnt really see how the model makes a difference, but perhaps I am missing something.

alannerd614 wrote:I wouldnt really see how the model makes a difference, but perhaps I am missing something.

The reason I ask the model number, is because the "AN" revisions have 256K controllers, and are not able to accept the latest firmware.. If it's a "BN" 512K controller, then it will be fine to load current firmware..

You'll need firmware above R08.xx to support rebanding, with R08.73 being current..


-Marc

Ok,

So lets say I have older than 08.xx

If it allows me to put in all control channel frequencies (4 old and 4 new/rebanded) without error, will my radio just not work when I change to the rebanded frequencies?

Or to go 1 step simpler:

Would it let me put in 8 CC freqs if it had less than 08.xx firmware?

And I am not talking about smartzone either...in "Disabled" mode.

Good article from Motorola on reprogramming subscriber radios on rebanded systems:

http://www.motorola.com/governmentanden ... s_V1_1.pdf

Most up to date list of Motorola products affected by rebanding and the reprogram/reflash/replace matrices:

http://www.motorola.com/governmentanden ... -16-07.pdf

You cannot just add the new channels. 800Mhz trunking radios only know there control channels by frequency, while monitoring the control channel and a call goes active on there talkgroup the radio is given a channel number, ie "33" it knows it needs to go to channel 33 which is 821.5625 or whatever. In the firmware of the radio there is a table or formula the radio used to calculate what freq it needs to go to based on the number its told. Problem is, now the 821 freqs have been moved, so the radio needs 2 tables or formulas one for standard and one for rebanded operation. Old firmware doesn't know about the channels being moved.

That may not be exactly how it works, but close enough.

Batwings,

Please reread my posts...I have been saying CC (Control Channel)

I understand you dont put in every channel.

However, the point I am trying to make is this:

If I have an MTS that needs to be upgraded to work with rebanding, would it allow me to put in 8 control channels.

Or another way of wording it:

If it allows me to put in my original 4 Control channels, and 4 additional control channels (while not being in smartzone mode), then is there any reason to think my radio wouldnt work?


Or another way:

If I had Firmware older than 08.xx would it even allow me to put in the 4 rebanding control channels?

alannerd614 wrote:Batwings,

Please reread my posts...I have been saying CC (Control Channel)

I understand you dont put in every channel.

However, the point I am trying to make is this:

If I have an MTS that needs to be upgraded to work with rebanding, would it allow me to put in 8 control channels.

Or another way of wording it:

If it allows me to put in my original 4 Control channels, and 4 additional control channels (while not being in smartzone mode), then is there any reason to think my radio wouldnt work?


Or another way:

If I had Firmware older than 08.xx would it even allow me to put in the 4 rebanding control channels?

Ok, a good deal of info has been provided to you in response to your question, that you seem to be oblivious to... Hook up your radios to the computer, run the RSS/CPS and see if you can enter your 8 control channels, and see if it will write back to the radios.. That way you can see for youself if it takes them or not, and you can report back your findings..

-Marc

The MTS2000 CPS does not, unfortunately, know if any particular radio is rebanding capable or not, not does it conduct any of its own checks to make that determination. Current MTS CPS will always show the Trunking > Trunking Configuration > Rebanding Enabled checkbox checked, and will allow you to enter up to 8 control channels in a SmartNet system.

Also be aware that 512k MTS2000's with firmware prior to 5.63 need to be upgraded to at least that level of firmware before they can be written with newer CPS, otherwise there is a good chance doing so will produce a corrupted codeplug that will require a trip to the Depot to correct.

Long story short, if these radios are legitimately on a system, get them upgraded to the latest firmware revision as part of the rebanding process, and then you'll be able to program rebanded codeplugs into them.

Mfire39 wrote:

alannerd614 wrote:Batwings,

Please reread my posts...I have been saying CC (Control Channel)

I understand you dont put in every channel.

However, the point I am trying to make is this:

If I have an MTS that needs to be upgraded to work with rebanding, would it allow me to put in 8 control channels.

Or another way of wording it:

If it allows me to put in my original 4 Control channels, and 4 additional control channels (while not being in smartzone mode), then is there any reason to think my radio wouldnt work?


Or another way:

If I had Firmware older than 08.xx would it even allow me to put in the 4 rebanding control channels?

Ok, a good deal of info has been provided to you in response to your question, that you seem to be oblivious to... Hook up your radios to the computer, run the RSS/CPS and see if you can enter your 8 control channels, and see if it will write back to the radios.. That way you can see for youself if it takes them or not, and you can report back your findings..

-Marc

Marc

Please understand there is no sarcasm or ill-will in my posts.

We are rebanding our system. Most, if not all, of the MTS/MCS2000 radios that are on this system will allow me to type in our new, rebanded, control channels, along with our current control channels..

However, I had heard that, even though I can put our rebanded control channels into the radio, it doesnt matter.

What I dont want to happen is my radio allows me to put in all 8 control channels, and yet still doesnt function properly.


Again, to reiterate, I CAN put all 8 into my radios. However my understanding is that it still isnt enough, and that I need to upgrade the radios still.

if you read the documents directly from Motorola as I posted them, the instructions for doing everything your asking step-by-step are in the guide, as well as what you need to ensure your subscriber radios will support rebanding. These are direct from Motorola, and are strongly suggested reading for anyone involved in this process.

The only way to tell for sure is by the firmware. As Akardam said, the cps will let you add 8 cc's as long as the cps is new enough. The only quick way to tell is the different sound the rebanding capable radios make when they go into test mode.

The technical issues aside, I'm perplexed by the premise of the OP's original question. The system they reference is getting rebanded, so they should have been provided with however many firmware refreshes were specified by their contract. Maybe the OP can provide some clarification.

Akardam,

Motorola has provided them.

I was simply wanting to find out if they were necessary.

And yes, I have read the PDFs. I know what has been documented and told to people about rebanding.

However, IMO, just because Motorola tells someone something, doesn't necessarily mean it is true or accurate.

Perhaps I am misreading the posts, but it seems like a lot of animosity over a simple question.


It just seems interesting to me that I can actually program the 8 control channels into the radio (not just add them in CPS, but actually program them successfully into the radio) and yet, the radio MAY still not be "rebanded".

Am I the only one that finds that interesting?

There is no "animosity" I did misread your first post, after re-reading it, you were told there are two tables for channel freq to channel number. You just choose to not accept the answers you have been given. So here is my last attempt.

You have been told the rebanding compliant firmware has two channel tables - fact.

You have been told the cps over a certain revision will let you add and program 8 control channels in a smartnet system regardless of the firmware version in the radio - fact.

You have been given flashes and told to upgrade your radios by Motorola - fact. I will tell you, hands down if you do not have the required firmware in your radio it will not work. - fact

We have done two complete system rebanding projects. We are getting ready to start a third. We had a tech, who thought that if you could add 8 control channels, the radio had new enough firmware. - false He found out the hard way when the system switched over. The customer was not happy...

The cps allows the radio to be programmed with the 8 cc's because it knows about rebanding and allows you to enter more than 4 cc's for smartnet. The radio does not care because most of its block in the codeplug are dynamic and the cps can change the size of these blocks. So when it see's 8 control channels it does not care, because the cps added them and they have the correct checksums and such. The radio is perfectly capable of having more than 4 control channels even before rebanding in a smartzone or wac amss system. So they can be there, regardless of whether the radio knows how to use them or not.

Why just doesn't he ask his system admin? There is a whole lot of correct information posted by all, but if he is still has doubts then he needs to communicate with those in his agency that is coordinating the re-banding process, unless this is a rougue radio that isn't fully legal on the system then he is pretty much on his own.

Also we don't know any system particulars, such as is this a true NPSPAC system that just moves down 15 MHz, is it a hybrid 856/866 system, or maybe it is a lower 120 that is just beginning to move. With this being the case we might be leading him down the wrong path by accident.

He really needs to contact those who manage his system for the correct information.