Batboard

Just damn! That's great news about the KVL3000 Plus adapter for the XTS charger! I have that gigantic monolyth of a dual Visar charger for my KVL. I keep two spare Hi-Cap Lion batteries for my XTS. This way I can just keep my KVL in the charger as a stand. And, yes; Visar batteries SUCK! I'd love to get my hands on the engineer who decided that the new KVL's would use - of all things - a crappy battery from a crappy radio. I've never had a Visar battery last longer than a cup of coffee and a pack of cigarettes at an AA Meeting - new or old. Ugly battery on an ugly, cumbersome keyloader. Only Motorola. BTW; Tait sells a PDA type "Key Fill Device" that does all of the DES + AES for around $700.00. And yes it does load Motorola radios with the adapters that Tait sells for it. Sounds a little more reasonable to me... Although; I do not have one and have not used one. After my Unity arrives this month - hopefully - that will be my next big ticket purchase item - just for S&G. I'm also assuming that since you use a KVL3000 Plus to load the Unity; why wouldn't the Tait work as well? As soon as I see my pimp; I'll find out...

I suspect the Tait PDA keyfill device isn't FIPS-certified... or at least not to the level of the KVL3K+.

Anything that can be loaded with a KVL3000 in CKR/ASTRO25 mode will work with the Tait loader.

I got a quote for a tait loader a year ago and it was $4,000!!

I'll double check on the price, but if memory serves me correctly; our quote was around $700.00. I was stunned, as well. I'll post back.

For your entertainment:

http://www.taitworld.com/main/index.cfm ... Encryption

Enjoy!

Jim

MattSR wrote:Anything that can be loaded with a KVL3000 in CKR/ASTRO25 mode will work with the Tait loader.

I got a quote for a tait loader a year ago and it was $4,000!!

I didn't say it wouldn't load the radio. I said it wasn't certified. Read FIPS 140-2. Tait's modules are certified, but I doubt their keyfill device is. The KVL3K+ is.

4n6inv wrote:I'm also assuming that since you use a KVL3000 Plus to load the Unity; why wouldn't the Tait work as well? As soon as I see my pimp; I'll find out...

Hi Terry,

I was replying to the guy that posted before you - my statement has nothing to do with what you were saying I am well aware that you didn't say it wouldn't load the radio and that you were only referring to FIPS...

With respect,
Matt

MattSR wrote:Anything that can be loaded with a KVL3000 in CKR/ASTRO25 mode will work with the Tait loader.

I got a quote for a tait loader a year ago and it was $4,000!!

As of right now the Tait will only load tait radios and Motorola radios that use the XTS3000/5000 side connectors.

It does use the P25 standard to load but at this time there are not cable for any other radios. It does not use a hirose and takes a special cable.

As for it loading the Unity, first the Unity would have to be FCC certified to you to get one. Since that is not happened you will not be getting one next month.

I hate to break anyone's heart; but, the Tait KFD is FIPS 140-2 certified; ACCCORDING to the rep at Tait that I spoke with today. And; yes; Government pricing is in the $700.00 range. They also make a device that will allow you to load Tait Radios with the KVL3000 Plus for about $200.00. Don't flame me; don't argue with me - I'm only going by what the manufacturer is representing. Sometimes people try to sell you snake oil; but, from what I've seen; Tait is a GREAT, solid, durable radio with equal to; if not exceeding Motorola's at 1/3 to 1/2 the price. Also; bear in mind: Tait is manufactured in New Zealand, and their largest customer is Australia. IT HAS TO BE TOUGH! I have literally seen a Tait portable thrown - not tossed - into a cinder block wall and it never missed a beat. Try that with your XTS. It won't! I love Motorola; but, they'd better wake up before they go the way of the IBM PC. Arrogance and confidence only go so far in today's economy.

In my very long discussion with Harris today; the Unity was accepted in November as being FCC certified. They are asking me for a KVL3000 Plus with AES to verify some descrepencies, that have not been proven... Based on Harris' history; I'm betting on them.

I was quoted $4235.00 Aussie dollars for the Tait!

And, you're right - the Tait KFD will only load TRUE Motorola P-25 radios from what I understand; and why would they go back in time to retrofit legacy encryption? > Forward!

I can only go one what's on paper from Tait (as far as pricing). Since it is confidential pricing; I hesitate to post a PDF, but would be happy to show it to anyone in person...

I'm not a Tait whore. In fact; until 3 months ago; I was a Motorola whore for 30 years. But; I can't dispute the obvious. I / we've moved hundreds of Tait's in West Texas, and the customers will never come back to Motorola. They love 'em! My next radio purchase - besides the Unity - will be Tait - just to compare. Oh; and did I mention: You can cut and paste from an Excel Spreadseheet into a Tait Codeplug? Eat that Motorola! As previoiusly stated; somebody at Motorola better wake up.

Lay off the punch buddy

The punch or the truth?

This thread got taken off topic real fast, so it's been split into two. If you want to continue discussion of the Tait keyfill device, do it here, not in the other thread.

And as a reminder, let's keep it civil...

4n6inv wrote:In my very long discussion with Harris today; the Unity was accepted in November as being FCC certified. They are asking me for a KVL3000 Plus with AES to verify some descrepencies, that have not been proven... Based on Harris' history; I'm betting on them.

2 things:
1. I would get that in writing from them if I were you

2. Ask them to give you the FCC ID number (also in writing)

because, per the FCC the unity is not type accepted!

4n6inv wrote:And, you're right - the Tait KFD will only load TRUE Motorola P-25 radios from what I understand; and why would they go back in time to retrofit legacy encryption? > Forward!

the Tait will not load all Motorola P25 radios as I said, it will only load Motorola portables using the XTS-3000/5000 connector.

radioinstl wrote:

4n6inv wrote:And, you're right - the Tait KFD will only load TRUE Motorola P-25 radios from what I understand; and why would they go back in time to retrofit legacy encryption? > Forward!

the Tait will not load all Motorola P25 radios as I said, it will only load Motorola portables using the XTS-3000/5000 connector.

It sounds like technically speaking the Tait keyloader will load any device that accepts keys based on the APCO 25 protocols for key loading.

The limitation of the key loader is that they only have a "JEDI" cable, therefore, it will only load the 1500/2500/3000/3500/5000 series portables?

If they had a hirose adapter, my guess is the Astro Saber and the fleet of Motorola mobiles could be made to work.

That's my understanding reading this thread. The loader is limited by the kind of physical connection to the radio, not that the loader will not do it.

-Alex

radioinstl wrote:

4n6inv wrote:And, you're right - the Tait KFD will only load TRUE Motorola P-25 radios from what I understand; and why would they go back in time to retrofit legacy encryption? > Forward!

the Tait will not load all Motorola P25 radios as I said, it will only load Motorola portables using the XTS-3000/5000 connector.

What is to keep someone from cutting the adapter off the cable and splicing their own on?

Nothing at all - that would work fone on any Motorola that supports CKR mode

(but I know you had figured that bit out already Jeffro - just posting this for the benefit of the other people reading the thread)

Look guys; I wasn't trying to start a war here with what I posted. I'm just regurgitating information that I've been told by (what I consider)reliable sources - ie: the actual companies or representatives. I know sales people have a "certain" way of misleading you on the real truth, but it's certainly not my intention here. It's a forum for discussion; not the word of God. Nor; do I profess to be any type of universal expert on communications or equipment. I'm "Smarter Than The Average Bear", but, by no means an expert.

NOW; getting back to what both Alex and escomm said; the answer is "Yes" - you could cut the head off any adapter that would keyload a Motorola P-25 radio and make it work with the Tait in that respect. I have not personally "laid hands on" one of their (Tait) KFD's to see what type of connector that it uses to interface with their's or Motorola radios; but Alex is right: If you pin it out and have your KID's in a row; there should be no reason that it wouldn't work. Any of the Motorola radios that I've used specific keyloader cables on, that display "Keyloading" when you attach the cable, do so based on the wiring of the keyloader cable, and not the mere fact that a KVL is attached. That is why I WANT to buy one of the Tait KFD's - so I can experiment and pass the info along to you all. I've double checked the $700.00 price range for the Tait KFD, and ; as of right now; I stand by what I've been quoted.

I'm only going to mention the Unity issue here for the last time on this thread: I have one on order, and the company that I work for out of the DFW area has 48 pre-ordered. I spoke with Harris on Friday, and was told that they had been accepted, but the beginning delivery may be later this month or longer. Word around the campfire, serveral months ago was that they would start shipping Mid-January, and to keep it under my hat. Obviously; I didn't because - not only am I too boastful, but I'm excited as hell about getting one. I was told on Friday that they would be shipping some by the end of the month. Obviously - the higher you are on the pecking order - the faster you will get your order. Let's face it: 48 (48 $4K radios is a lot of damn radios to me, though) radios is not exactly a HUGE number compared to the demand that others have for them; so, I'm not going to hold my breath. I can only assure you that the moment I get mine, I will be driving to Dallas as fast as my little Rodeo can get me there. Hell; I may even rent a Cessna and fly there! I know a lot of you work for much larger organizations than I do; so, you may get yours first. But; as soon as I get mine; I WILL post pictures (see paragraph 15 subsection c in reference to my boastfullness). I have been in discussion with Harris about future upgrades, and their priority, based on demand. There are a lot of rumors swirlling about whether or not it will feature EDACS, Pro-Voice, or Open Sky trunking, Per my discussion yesterday with them; that is NOT on the block, as of yet. Seems logical since Harris now owns them; but EDACS? WTF? Why go backwards? I was told that if there is enough demand for Pro-voice and Open Sky; it will be offered at a later date. Period. This is contrary to what I was told earlier, also.

Sorry for any miscommunication.

Alex: Thank you for making this a separate thread... I appologize for hijacking a really good one on the charging adapters to run my mouth.

escomm: I'm not big on "punch". But; I do have a big mouth and a big ego - for no good reason. You're a bud to me. I appreciate and respect all of your posts.

Regards,

Jim

4n6inv wrote:
NOW; getting back to what both Alex and escomm said; the answer is "Yes" - you could cut the head off any adapter that would keyload a Motorola P-25 radio and make it work with the Tait in that respect. I have not personally "laid hands on" one of their (Tait) KFD's to see what type of connector that it uses to interface with their's or Motorola radios; but Alex is right: If you pin it out and have your KID's in a row; there should be no reason that it wouldn't work. Any of the Motorola radios that I've used specific keyloader cables on, that display "Keyloading" when you attach the cable, do so based on the wiring of the keyloader cable, and not the mere fact that a KVL is attached. That is why I WANT to buy one of the Tait KFD's - so I can experiment and pass the info along to you all. I've double checked the $700.00 price range for the Tait KFD, and ; as of right now; I stand by what I've been quoted.

Well I will help you out since I have used the Tait key fill device. It has a DB25 connector for the cables. And the Tait engineer that designed and built the device advised me that it may or may not work on other radios. They have not done testing on anything but a XTS5000. He said that there would most likely have to adjust some of the line levels and maybe some the connections (inline caps or resitors etc).

Thanks! That's interesting. I'm not sure of the logic, but; I don't doubt it either....

Im 100% confident it will work on any CKR motorola..

The real question is, where can we get one for $700

I'll triple check on Monday and let you know the pricing, but as of a quote I read today; it was offered at $685.00. Typo? Dunno. Doubt it, but it is possible... If I can verify that; I'll sell you all you care to eat.

Call it whatever you want... The quote was for ~$700.00 for a Tait KFD and it's on paper. I FINALLY got a Tait login from my boss and the KFD is more like $2700.00 USD. My appologies. No; I wasn't hitting the "Crack Pipe" That's just what I was made to believe. My boss will honor the price sent to the ONE customer; even if we have to take a hit. But; the USD retail price is closer to ~$2700.00. I don't know how that translates into Aussie dollars, et al. but I was wrong and admit it. Bottom line is; I can't sell it for that price, and I'm sorry for the confusion. Tait's pricing matrix is hard to usnderstand, but that's no exscuse. Still, a damn sight cheaper than Motorola's KVL3000 Plus...

As for the Harris equipment; I'm still waiting...

Sorry,

Jim

I'll tell you this. I love the Tait Keyfill. What is the part# for the Jedi adapter? I should be able to make one as the connection to the KDF is DB9.
MC

No idea, but; I won't be buying a Tait KFD anytime soon, because funds prohibit. (I'm still reeling from my KVL3000 Plus!)I'd love to have one and toy with it, but I don't think my boss is going to spring for it. If it had truly been in the $700.00 - $800.00 range maybe; but not $2700.00. If we sell one out here; I'll be the first to get my hands on it and deliver it. I'm frothing... I just got the Tait "retail" price list for their items, but it is as awkward as anything I've ever seen. I don't know if you can just buy their KFD software; which would be cheap (and work on a PDA with Windows Mobile 6.1), of if you actually have to use their PDA. I'm looking into it....

Jim