Batboard

I've recently programmed an XTS-2500 700/800 radio with new P25 TRS for a neighboring system. The proper ASK slave was used and the radio seems to take the programming fine. However, the system is constantly showing an "out of range" indicator and never makes an attempt to affiliate with the system. There are 9 SmartNet systems in the same radio that are working well, and I've verified that the P25 Vocoder is working by talking on a simplex 700 interop channel (7CALL50). We've written the codeplug from this radio into another XTS2500 and it worked fine. Conversely, we've written the data from an XTS2500 known to be working on the new P25 TRS to this radio and it still fails. I suspect that there is some option that I haven't found yet that is keeping this from working. The only other time I've seen a radio act this way is on a Type II TRS (Smartnet) where the "Splinter Frequency" option wasn't checked (we're on the border of Mexico). However, this option is grayed-put on Astro 9600.

Any ideas are appreciated. The radio flashcode is: 589018-40168F-3

Honestly, the only thing I can think of off-hand is that the RF power amplifier is shot...sure the other TRS systems might work ok...when the radio is well within the footprint of them. Your codeplug works fine in another radio, so you know it isn't a CPS setting. Conversely, you've written the data from an XTS2500 known to be working on the new P25 TRS to this radio and it still fails. It must be hardware...whether it's as apparent as transmitting in the micro/millivolts as I suspect, or some other obscure fault dealing with low-level data or timing, the fix likely lies in a module replacement at the depot.

That's what I was afraid of. This was an e-bay purchase (yeah, I know...but I'm on a budget!). I don't think it is a power output issue because I can key distant conventional repeaters (interop sites) and even affiliate and key a Smartnet TRS that is about 40 miles from me. I even tried programming the control channels as conventional analog just to see if the radio was actually receiving on that frequency and they appear to be (I can hear the data stream clearly). I've even gone to one of the 700 MHz NPSPAC channels and was able to talk to another portable on talkaround in P25 mode, so I've ruled out the IMBE Vocoder as the culprit.

I guess I'm out of options. It's sad actually since the radio is cosmetically perfect and performs flawlessly on Smartnet and conventional channels in both analog and digital.

Has the radio ever been through a full alignment since you've had it?

I'll echo Akardam. Have the radio aligned before you go any further. The slightest deviation in the reference oscillator will show as out of range for a P25 system, but appear to work fine on legacy systems.

The infrastructure may not be as tolerant of a poorly aligned radio. Since that's an eBay special, you need a complete alignment performed by a competent technician with proper service equipment. I suspect the deviation limit or compensation is out of whack, or the R/O is set improperly and you're way off channel. There are several people on the board capable of providing such services.

Reading between the lines I should keep my rubi and should consider upgrading it.

Thanks for all of the responses. I was just about to return the radio but I'll try getting it aligned first.

Got sidetracked and forgot to finish this topic. I had the radio realigned by a Motorola Service Center. They confirmed that the oscillator was perfectly aligned, and even went so far as to move it to the margins a bit to see if it changed anything. It did not. I sent the radio back to the source and he sent me another radio. Programmed it up...and it did the same darned thing. Works perfectly on Type II (Smartnet), conventional analog and conventional P25, but on a P25 Trunking system shows "out of range" (actually, on two systems).

The options in the flashcode (589018-40168F-3) appear correct but it flat will not work. Does anyone else have any ideas?

I think that is a non-legit flashcode. If i'm not having a brain fart a radio with p25 9600 trunking and 3600 interop should not have smartzone in it.

It figures. I don't suppose there is any way to fix that, is there?

What firmware revision is in the radio? Turn it off then back on... once it boots, press the bottom button on the side 5 times. Transcribe what it barfs out and post it here.

HOST R09.00.13
DSP R12.00.04
SECURE VER = SECURE ADP
MODEL H46UCH9PW7AN
SERIAL 205CHT0025
FLASH 589018-40168F-3

Batwings21 wrote:I think that is a non-legit flashcode. If i'm not having a brain fart a radio with p25 9600 trunking and 3600 interop should not have smartzone in it.

SmartZone is a system package option, and the radio has to have a system package. In this case, Motorola more or less bases P25 trunking on the SmartZone package, so a radio with P25 trunking has to have it. On the other hand, that flashcode sure does look loaded...

In regards to the P25 system that is showing "out of range" - could this be from testing on a talkgroup that does not have permission to be on the site that you are affiliating with? Here in MN we have a 800 statewide P25 system, and the individual talkgroups have a setting that dictates what sites the talkgroup is allowed on. Our agency talkgroups only go on our county sites and one county away from us. So if I turn my radio on to an agency talkgroup on the other side of MN, the radio will bonk and say "out of range."

I think the radio will also say "out of range" if your radio's trunking ID for that system is not allowed on the system.

The talkgroup and unit ID are valid. I can drop the same codeplug into another city-owned radio and that unit will come right up and talk. I guess my only choice at this point is to return the radio for a refund, which was offered by the seller. It's too bad, I'll probably never be able to afford a new one!

Thank everyone.

UPDATE:

Over the past several months, I had come to the conclusion that my XTS2500 (700/800) was going to be useless when the Smartnet systems I am currently using transition to P25 Trunking. This was based on my inability to get the radio to sync with two local M/A-Com (Harris) P25 trunked systems. On a whim, I had my radio programmed today on a new Motorola regional P25 trunking system. The radio came up and ran perfectly on the Motorola system, although it still gave an out of range indication on the M/A-Com system. Other department-owned (and newer) XTS2500s are working fine on the M/A-Com system so I am left to believe that it has something to do with the older Motorola firmware. I had a Motorola engineer tell me a couple of years ago that they were having problems with an XTS5000 being tested on a M/A-Com P25 system. In his opinion, it was because Motorola's firmware was "too rigid" in its protocols and didn't allow for minor variances in the code. I will be getting a firmware update in the next day or so. I'm willing to bet that Motorola fixed the incompatibility bugs and my radio will suddenly start working on the M/A-Com P25 system.

I'll let you know!

You failed to mention previously that the issues were occuring on a Harris system...I would've suggested firmware upgrade had you done so, as there are known incompatibilities with earlier firmware. I certainly assumed it was a Motorola system, since they comprise about 99% of the P25 systems out there.

I had the same problem a few years ago on Fort Polks P25 UHF system with some of our avionics radios which are based on an XTS5000 in a slightly modified form factor.

BTW the Fort Polk system is a MaCom UHF low split 9600/P25 trunking system.

The radios would not affiliate and after two months with MaCom and me trying numerous settings in both Motorola's CPS and MaComs RPM it was determined that our radios, with the XTS5000 modules, needed to be upgraded from around host 9/10 to 12, after that things worked perfectly.


Mike

I had the same problem a few years ago on Fort Polks P25 UHF system with some of our avionics radios which are based on an XTS5000 in a slightly modified form factor.

The radios would not affiliate and after two months with MaCom and me trying numerous settings in both Motorola's CPS and MaComs RPM it was determined that our radios, with the XTS5000 modules, needed to be upgraded from around host 9/10 to 12, after that things worked perfectly.


Mike

I just checked my old e-mails between MaCom and myself and all of the problem radios had Firmware 10 and 11 in them and none would talk to a MaCom P25 system so this is confirmed that in our case nothing prior to FW 12.00.00 would talk to MaCom infrastructure.

Thanks for the responses, guys!

@Mike, sounds to me like you were using Technisonic radios in the aircraft. I've had plenty of experience with them and had to learn the hard way that you don't want to necessarily use the "latest and greatest" Motorola CPS either. Sometimes, minor changes in the Motorola CPS doesn't quite jive with Technisonic's front-end firmware. We found out when we started having radio lockups...usually right in the middle of a man hunt or vehicle pursuit!

One other question: The XTS2500 I have is a 4 meg model. Does anyone know if the bug fixes for the M/A-Com P25 TRS were fixed in any of the firmware versions available to the 4meg?

Technisonics,

No way they change frequencies and locked up randomly in some of the local medivac helos due to stray RF getting in from other avionics in the helos.

I' was having the problem in the P25 modules of 2 of my own avionics radio designs, one is the Wulfsberg RT5000D and the other the Wulfsberg P2000, the P2000 is what I was referencing in this instance in a Army Guard helo.

Northern AZ

Motorola tech support tells me today that the bug-fix that will allow my XTS-2500 to work on a Harris (M/A-Com) P25 TRS is on a release higher than 9.xx.xx. Unfortunately, my radio is a 4 meg version ("AN") which can only be updated up to 9.xx.xx. Motorola claims the highest version available is 9.00.05, but the funny thing is that my radio shows to have Firmware version 9.00.13. Go figure?

You need to find out what version Harris system it is, then find out what version XTS2500 passed CAP trunking interoperability testing on that platform. There have been a number of updates in the past few years to ensure that they work with MA/COM-Harris and updates to the P25 standards