Batboard

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/27/spri ... -out-iden/

Some may consider this off-topic, but I think of iDEN as more of a trunked radio network with telephone inter-connect than a pure cellular mobile telephone network. Anyway, from a technological standpoint, does anybody here have any insight into how they are likely to handle the changeover? For example, many of us here, myself included, use Direct Connect extensively during work. I understand that they are going to switch to CDMA, but I wonder how long this is likely to take and if the networks will be patched together so someone with a future CDMA phone can still contact someone on iDEN Direct Connect. I have never owned a QChat device, but I think they were the ones on EVDO that connected to iDEN Direct Connect, but I don't think they had a great track record.

We have a regional iDEN operator, Southern LINC, that will get alot of business. Southern LINC, while operating only in a few states (Georgia and Alabama, with some of Mississippi and the Florida panhandle) has superior coverage, network reliability the traditional wireless companies with they had, and they still operate primarily as an ESMR. They also don't act stupid when you ask about features like talkgroup scan, emergency call, and ISO. But then they are run by one of the largest utility providers (Southern Company) and the system was designed primarily to support that companies' business of providing electric power to their operating areas. I've been a customer of Georgia Power as long as I have been on this planet (35 years and counting) and can count on one hand how many times we've had a major interruption in our service. That speaks volumes about their commitment to service. I've seen nothing less from SoLINC. and unlike "the Now Network", I don't see SoCo going anywhere nor doing anything to replace their iDEN system.

Sprint should have never meddled with Nextel, and Nextel should never have meddled with Sprint. It was and still is a great ESMR, that practically changed the game. I worked for a radio shop in the late 90's that Nextel practically put out of business overnight when they offered to buy the licenses of the two 800MHz TRS systems we had, one was a Privacy Plus and the other was LTR. Maybe when Sprint shuts off iDEN and forces the crappy PTW app, (that's Push to Wait) on CDMA, this will be an opportunity for radio shops to amp up wide area dispatch services with technologies like NXDN and MotoTRBO. I can see alot of businesses who will dump Sprint in a heartbeat as they need RELIABLE WIDE AREA DISPATCH. After all, if they want cellphones, they have their pick of providers, all which have better coverage than Sprint's feeble PCS network who's footprint is devoid in many parts of this state (did I mention PCS1900 SUCKS in the mountains?)

We all knew this day was coming since 2005...the big question is...what's NEXT to replace it? It sure isn't that Q-chat garbage, that is a bad joke. Even Verizon practically gave up on it.

I agree with both you guys 100%. The minute they dump Iden, I dump them. Hopefully, they can sell the Iden network to a company who will bring it back to the glory days of Nextel. Sprint should have never bought Nextel in the 1st place. GARY N4KVE

I F***ING KNEW IT.

No doubt. My prediction has always been that as soon as this 800MHz rebanding nonsense was finished, we'd see IDEN shut off.

Looks like it may happen even earlier than the completion of rebanding. What a waste. This is a perfect example of political nonsense.

Hah!

MTS2000des wrote:.....We have a regional iDEN operator, Southern LINC, that will get alot of business. Southern LINC, while operating only in a few states (Georgia and Alabama, with some of Mississippi and the Florida panhandle) has superior coverage, network reliability the traditional wireless companies with they had, and they still operate primarily as an ESMR. They also don't act stupid when you ask about features like talkgroup scan, emergency call, and ISO. But then they are run by one of the largest utility providers (Southern Company) and the system was designed primarily to support that companies' business of providing electric power to their operating areas. I've been a customer of Georgia Power as long as I have been on this planet (35 years and counting) and can count on one hand how many times we've had a major interruption in our service. That speaks volumes about their commitment to service. I've seen nothing less from SoLINC. and unlike "the Now Network", I don't see SoCo going anywhere nor doing anything to replace their iDEN system.....

Gee, it is too bad that Southern LINC can't buy the existing iDEN network and run it like they do in that region!

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=199252

Sprint Nextel Corp. (NYSE: S) added some color to its network modernization plan on its third-quarter earnings call today. On the call, CEO Dan Hesse said Sprint's moves to reduce costs on its CDMA and iDen networks should start to have a financial benefit in 2012.

Light Reading Mobile reported last week that the company is looking for a multi-modal base station platform, codenamed "Project Leapfrog," that will help reduce CDMA roaming costs and coverage gaps, while allowing it to switch off some iDEN towers and possibly extend WiMax or LTE coverage in the future. (See 4G World: Sprint Ready to Play 'Leapfrog'.)

Hesse said on the call that the goal of the network modernization project is to support multiple air interfaces and radio frequencies with one overall platform at a cell site. "The way we’d think about it we’d go from multiple networks to one network," Hesse says.

The CEO stressed that that the project is still "in the early stages" and will take three to four years to complete. The company hasn't picked vendors yet, but it is considering six vendors and it expects to decide the project winners by the end of the year.

A major part of the plan is to open up more of the 800MHz spectrum that Sprint uses for Nextel iDEN services, for CDMA use in the future. Bob Azzi, SVP of networks at Sprint, said that the goal is to have "one CDMA carrier deployed for voice" in the 800MHz spectrum, although this will depend on suitable handsets being available.

All of this will lead to financial benefits for the carrier by 2012, Hesse said on the call. He added that it's possible Sprint has the leeway to speed up the project if it needs to.

Losses continue
Sprint posted a loss of $911 million for the third quarter, almost double the $478 million loss it posted in the same period last year, even as revenue rose by one percent to $815 billion year-on-year.

Strong sales of the dual-mode 3G and WiMax High Tech Computer Corp. (HTC) (Taiwan: 2498) EVO and the popularity of Sprint's unlimited plans saw it add 354,000 new subscribers with two-year contracts this quarter and 644,000 fresh faces overall. Sprint expects that growth to continue.

Clearwire options
During the conference call, analysts pounded Hesse with questions about its "4G" partner, Clearwire LLC (Nasdaq: CLWR), following rumors that the operator is talking to T-Mobile USA about spectrum and that Sprint execs left the Clearwire board (See What's Really Behind Clearwire's Board Reshuffling?)

Hesse didn't have much comment to offer.

Talking about future "4G" plans on the call, Hesse said Clearwire's network wasn't the only option for Sprint. "We do have alternatives we could consider," Hesse says.

As a person who has worked in the cellular field for about 15 years and been a Nextel / Sprint user for about 5
years, I have always said that if Sprint didn't improve their network, they would have troubles. Nothing has
changed except I am no longer a customer of theirs. Poor network coverage, lack of build out, poor customer
service, screwed up billing, what more can I say. They either need to dump the top dogs or sell the company.

Jim

Oh great, this will go over well in our SAR group; we use Nextel for group communication when not near a radio.

We'll see what comes down the road, won't we? If they drop their ptt business, I see new opportunity for the smr owners. Few of our customers use the nationwide coverage of Nextel. However, most of them do use the regional coverage which is what a smr could do. I've given out Nextels to my 24/7 customers so they can reach me anytime, anywhere, for anything. I might have to come up with a new plan, but that shouldn't be too difficult. I will be saddened to see the service disappear. It was the kind of radio service customers have asked for forever - huge foot print, reasonable quality, reliable, and low cost of ownership.

I wish they would just turn it all off, pay all the Nextel customers something for their troubles, and be done with it. Stop draggin rebanding along and let us get back to running our systems.

That's why almost our entire agency left Nextel. We had hybrid Iden/CDMA phones that we loved but we couldn't deal with the billing. We would be lied to by the reps then lied to by the billing department. Every bill was twice what they said it would be and we had to fight over it on the phone for hours each month. We dropped them and they didn't seem to care a bit. I guess they made so much money they didn't need any of ours.

Jim202 wrote:As a person who has worked in the cellular field for about 15 years and been a Nextel / Sprint user for about 5
years, I have always said that if Sprint didn't improve their network, they would have troubles. Nothing has
changed except I am no longer a customer of theirs. Poor network coverage, lack of build out, poor customer
service, screwed up billing, what more can I say. They either need to dump the top dogs or sell the company.

Jim

One could argue that if the FCC had not interleaved the public safety services within the other SMR licenses, rebanding would not have been necessary. It could also be argued that if Mot had not pushed the envelope with the MURS /iDEN emissions, and if manufacturers had built greater rejection into their products, rebanding would not be necessary either. Not to mention the FCC mandate for all services to make more efficient use of spectrum ....

But, those are all discussions outside the scope of this thread.

I recall putting in the first MIRS system in the PNW at the same time we were installing the first Portland area public safety simulcast 800 trunking system, and thinking to myself that the MIRS offered advantages the other would never have. These days it is not uncommon to see officers carry an agency Nextel, an agency portable, and their own personal cellphone while driving in a car with an MDT.

Bill_G wrote:.....These days it is not uncommon to see officers carry an agency Nextel, an agency portable, and their own personal cellphone while driving in a car with an MDT.....

That describes my situation precisely:


-Nextel Motorola i680

-Motorola XTS5000 on digital trunked system

-T-Mobile Garminfone (personal)

-Panasonic Toughbook CF-29 with Sprint EVDO aircard

Any agency or organization that relies on Nexhell for primary communications as KE7JFF's SAR group does is just plain stupid. They are NOT a cellphone carrier, therefor they are NOT responsible to the Common Carrier rules set forth by most states Public Service Commission. I can say from experience that during the blackout of August 2004 that Nexthell was the first carrier to die and the last to come back.
My agency didn't listen, I warned them about Nexthell, but they went with them anyway. I suspect some back room politics, but that's not for this discussion. The end result was all of our town agencies had to operate on a single repeater for the duration.
Never depend on Nexthell, because they won't be there when you really need them.
Personally I would hope that the whole company goes belly up and the frequencies are then reassigned to Public Safety.

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:Any agency or organization that relies on Nexhell for primary communications as KE7JFF's SAR group does is just plain stupid. They are NOT a cellphone carrier, therefor they are NOT responsible to the Common Carrier rules set forth by most states Public Service Commission. I can say from experience that during the blackout of August 2004 that Nexthell was the first carrier to die and the last to come back.
My agency didn't listen, I warned them about Nexthell, but they went with them anyway. I suspect some back room politics, but that's not for this discussion. The end result was all of our town agencies had to operate on a single repeater for the duration.
Never depend on Nexthell, because they won't be there when you really need them.
Personally I would hope that the whole company goes belly up and the frequencies are then reassigned to Public Safety.

It isn't our primary medium for communication.

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:Any agency or organization that relies on Nexhell for primary communications as KE7JFF's SAR group does is just plain stupid. They are NOT a cellphone carrier, therefor they are NOT responsible to the Common Carrier rules set forth by most states Public Service Commission. I can say from experience that during the blackout of August 2004 that Nexthell was the first carrier to die and the last to come back.
My agency didn't listen, I warned them about Nexthell, but they went with them anyway. I suspect some back room politics, but that's not for this discussion. The end result was all of our town agencies had to operate on a single repeater for the duration.
Never depend on Nexthell, because they won't be there when you really need them.
Personally I would hope that the whole company goes belly up and the frequencies are then reassigned to Public Safety.

Not that I am taking sides or supporting one carrier over another, but right after hurricane Katrina flattened
most of the communications along the Gulf Coast, it was Nextel PTT that was up and running to provide the
outside link from at least the New Orleans region. With some 19 of the Bell South switching offices either
under water or no power, there was no long distance service for anyone. However the large region PTT
service of Nextel was functional. It was possible to talk to someone in the Washington DC area from New
Orleans. They were short of diesel fuel for the generators, so the sites were only active during the daylight
hours. After about 10 days after the storm, either the prime power was back at many of the sites, or they
had brought in enough fuel and bodies to keep the generators up and on line most of the time.

It wasn't until about Wednesday, the week after the storm, that Bell South and Verizon were able to provide
both incoming and outgoing long distance service. Even the fiber cables across Lake Ponchartrain were
down due to the I-10 bridge segments were moved off their piers and fell into the lake. The fiber was run
along the underside of the bridge spans.

The Public safety agencies were sort of hit and miss. It depended on where you were and what the damages
were. But I still wouldn't rely on a cell phone for prime communications for any public safety work. You don't
have control over the network and can't control the system loading during emergencies. Do what you want,
but I will stick with my VHF and UHF radios in my vehicle to get the messages through.

Jim

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:Any agency or organization that relies on Nexhell for primary communications as KE7JFF's SAR group does is just plain stupid. They are NOT a cellphone carrier, therefor they are NOT responsible to the Common Carrier rules set forth by most states Public Service Commission. I can say from experience that during the blackout of August 2004 that Nexthell was the first carrier to die and the last to come back.
My agency didn't listen, I warned them about Nexthell, but they went with them anyway. I suspect some back room politics, but that's not for this discussion. The end result was all of our town agencies had to operate on a single repeater for the duration.
Never depend on Nexthell, because they won't be there when you really need them.
Personally I would hope that the whole company goes belly up and the frequencies are then reassigned to Public Safety.

Nextel is and always was a part 90 ESMR. It isn't a part 80 service. It was never designed nor intended to replace primary dispatch radio services for public safety, but it makes a great interoperability and administrative tool. your comments are shortsighted, if not for the development and visionary role of iDEN redefining dispatch radio, we'd still be using bloated, insecure analog trunking systems and the development of advanced digital network solutions such as MotoTRBO and NXDN would still be on the drawing board.

What was an epic failure IMO was the marketing of Nextel to consumer end users. It should never have made it to the hands of the Boost Mobile "where you at" crowd. The system should be a business radio system as it's licenses and it's original intention was, not a replacement for traditional cellular and PCS, but the cellular/PCS explosion of the late 90's kind of forced Nextel to want to get into the consumer market. "You've never used a phone like this before" so said their slogan in 1996/1997. My answer was always "that's because it isn't a PHONE. It's a RADIO that can ACT like a phone"

The interference didn't start happening until the late 90's when Nextel starting picocelling everything to attempt to compete with cellphone companies. The problem is iDEN doesn't play well with adjacent channel high site systems and the mess began. Their efforts to grow and make smaller handsets work well (ala i1000) and to be ahead of the game with a nationwide "digital cellular" network. (remember "way back" in 1999/2000, cellular was just going digital, and PCS networks were just in their genesis) Then Sprint bought them out, ensuring the death of a once revered company with the lowest churn and highest ARPU in the wireless industry.

If you've ever seen a block diagram of a large iDEN system you'd see the difference. iDEN has a DAP (dispatch application processor) that is core of the radio side of the system. It's what allows for such fast private and talkgroup, as well as SDG calls to take place. PTT isn't an app running on a handset, it is the core of what the very design of iDEN.

Cellular systems can never emulate the speed and capability of tradition two way radio systems anymore than some cheap SUV like a Rav4 could take the place of a real industrial off road vehicle like a military Hummer.

Can you say false advertising. I guess you agree with most of my post, I really don't need to know the inner workings of why Nexthell is better than cellular. The fact remains, that they advertised it as cellular, when if fact it never was nothing more than a 2-way radio that does phone calls.
N.Y.C. was one of the first markets that Nexthell set up, I know of customers that went through weekly if not sometimes daily firmware updates to their handsets to get them working and keep it working. The radio spectrum they used was never intended for 100% wall to wall digital transmissions, and the FCC should have never allowed Nexthell to build out the way they did. The other tactic that brought infamy to Nextehell was the subtle threat to users of existing 800mhz services other than PS. The letters of requesting the number of radios on their frequency (ala FCC style letter) to telling them that their radio systems will go away and they will be stuck with no communications. All these tactics smell of Motorola's style but even to a new low. I will never contract to a Nexthell service and any user I can to get off of their service I will. I did get the N.Y.S.P. to breach their contract for poor service in my area. After their tech services refused to correct a simple coverage problem that was easily corrected.
The company ( Nexthell ) didn't get any more credibility in my opinion when they merged with Sprint. Anytime there was a customer problem, they basically said if their 2-way service didn't work for you, you should switch to Sprint phones. Doesn't give me that warm and fuzzy feeling about brand loyalty
BTW wasn't Sprint the phone carrier that dropped customers if they complained too much? I'm not even sure if that tactic is legal in most states.

I don't think anyone except small smr operators and the 800m license owners were fond of the way OneComm, and later Nextel, acquired their channels. People were really upset that the trunking radios they had just invested in over the previous decade were being phased out for something else. They felt betrayed. Everyone was affected no matter if they were on a GE, EFJ, Midland, or Motorola system. Mot certainly benefited from the conversion. It was also a boon at first for UHF LTR and 900M smr operators. But, as the iDEN system was built out, and improvements to the subscriber units were introduced, the advantages became obvious, and companies signed up. Some dispatch only systems still survive because the high cost of group call doesn't pencil out, and direct connect method doesn't work well for every business model. But, even the towing companies, private ambulances, independent cabs, cement companies, paving companies, and delivery services - the bread and butter of community repeaters and 800M trunking in the past - now use a mixed system of two way radio and cell phones, including Nextel, to get their work done. No one service covers everywhere as people have found out, but they have grown accustomed to something being available everywhere. It will be interesting for sure to see how this plays out, and which direction the market goes.

Bill_G wrote:I don't think anyone except small smr operators and the 800m license owners were fond of the way OneComm, and later Nextel, acquired their channels. People were really upset that the trunking radios they had just invested in over the previous decade were being phased out for something else. They felt betrayed. Everyone was affected no matter if they were on a GE, EFJ, Midland, or Motorola system. Mot certainly benefited from the conversion. It was also a boon at first for UHF LTR and 900M smr operators. But, as the iDEN system was built out, and improvements to the subscriber units were introduced, the advantages became obvious, and companies signed up. Some dispatch only systems still survive because the high cost of group call doesn't pencil out, and direct connect method doesn't work well for every business model. But, even the towing companies, private ambulances, independent cabs, cement companies, paving companies, and delivery services - the bread and butter of community repeaters and 800M trunking in the past - now use a mixed system of two way radio and cell phones, including Nextel, to get their work done. No one service covers everywhere as people have found out, but they have grown accustomed to something being available everywhere. It will be interesting for sure to see how this plays out, and which direction the market goes.

your exact scenario played out when Nextel came to the small radio shop I worked as a bench tech in 1997. Nextel made the owner an offer he couldn't refuse, close to two million dollars cash for his ten or so 800 channels (we ran two trunk systems, one LTR and PP). We came to work the next week to find the doors locked and a note. Our paychecks were mailed, he even told us to come get what we wanted as far as supplies and inventory (which didn't amount to squat- the most valuable things like his two R2001 and 2600's he took with him). I got a few NIB Kenwood TK-840's and some parts as a parting gift.

That's the day I knew the industry was changed forever, at least for me.

It is going to go through a change again when Dan shuts iDEN off.

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:The radio spectrum they used was never intended for 100% wall to wall digital transmissions

Was that spectrum instead intended for wall to wall analog transmissions? If so, those of us on 800MHz P25 are really screwed. Otherwise, you make good points

MTS2000des wrote:your exact scenario played out when Nextel came to the small radio shop I worked as a bench tech in 1997. Nextel made the owner an offer he couldn't refuse, close to two million dollars cash for his ten or so 800 channels (we ran two trunk systems, one LTR and PP). We came to work the next week to find the doors locked and a note. Our paychecks were mailed, he even told us to come get what we wanted as far as supplies and inventory (which didn't amount to squat- the most valuable things like his two R2001 and 2600's he took with him). I got a few NIB Kenwood TK-840's and some parts as a parting gift.

That's the day I knew the industry was changed forever, at least for me.

It is going to go through a change again when Dan shuts iDEN off.

Sorry to hear that. It happened a lot, but the folks I know - the ones we hired - at least saw it coming. What happened to you was pretty harsh.

The original 800 spectrum was designed for analog transmissions. Not wall to wall digital as Nexthell did. I don't know what will happen with P25 transmissions when it becomes more common. You may see the exact same problem. Though I do have to say that even with P25 it isn't running full boat 24/7 365.

I could see some Harmony iDEN systems pop up to give regional coverage by some LMR carriers.

KE7JFF wrote:I could see some Harmony iDEN systems pop up to give regional coverage by some LMR carriers.

In what spectrum?

Don't think for a minute sprint is going to give up the frequencies it spent millions rebanding!

-Alex

alex wrote:

KE7JFF wrote:I could see some Harmony iDEN systems pop up to give regional coverage by some LMR carriers.

In what spectrum?

Don't think for a minute sprint is going to give up the frequencies it spent millions rebanding!

-Alex

Doesn't ARNIC run its Harmony iDEN system in 900?

KE7JFF wrote:

alex wrote:

KE7JFF wrote:I could see some Harmony iDEN systems pop up to give regional coverage by some LMR carriers.

In what spectrum?

Don't think for a minute sprint is going to give up the frequencies it spent millions rebanding!

-Alex

Doesn't ARNIC run its Harmony iDEN system in 900?

yes, and IIRC, some 800 spectrum too
there are other regional iDEN systems out there (Southern LINC being the largest), Airpeak being another
the real question is, what about the iDEN systems that the TVA and Disney use? didn't Nextel acquire the 900 licenses from Disney in FLA and don't they operate that as a Harmony network that is interconnected to the Nextel system? What then?

Have you guys tried the touch to talk app on android, works as fast as nextel, much faster than the crap verizon push to talk. It does group call and is free, everybody has to have an android phone though.

Once we found out none of the nextel sites around here had generator backup (just some small battery sets) that was the end of it.

MTS2000des wrote: there are other regional iDEN systems out there (Southern LINC being the largest), Airpeak being another
the real question is, what about the iDEN systems that the TVA and Disney use? didn't Nextel acquire the 900 licenses from Disney in FLA and don't they operate that as a Harmony network that is interconnected to the Nextel system? What then?

Well, Disney is a bigger corporation so I imagine they would win

Also, I found out that Sprint's iDEN roaming partner in Canada, TELUS, is going to phase out their iDEN network by 2013.

MTS2000des wrote:We have a regional iDEN operator, Southern LINC, that will get alot of business. Southern LINC, while operating only in a few states (Georgia and Alabama, with some of Mississippi and the Florida panhandle) has superior coverage, network reliability the traditional wireless companies with they had, and they still operate primarily as an ESMR. They also don't act stupid when you ask about features like talkgroup scan, emergency call, and ISO. But then they are run by one of the largest utility providers (Southern Company) and the system was designed primarily to support that companies' business of providing electric power to their operating areas. I've been a customer of Georgia Power as long as I have been on this planet (35 years and counting) and can count on one hand how many times we've had a major interruption in our service. That speaks volumes about their commitment to service. I've seen nothing less from SoLINC. and unlike "the Now Network", I don't see SoCo going anywhere nor doing anything to replace their iDEN system.

FYI: Southern LINC has _terrible_ coverage in TVA areas.

This hit the news wire today...Marshall

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/1 ... 2010-12-06

Funny how none of those articles talk about how much Sprint will lose when their IDEN customers seek a reliable means of PTT. This will be good for LMR, no doubt.

We're banking on it with a regional ip site connect system. So far so good.

Bill_G wrote:We're banking on it with a regional ip site connect system. So far so good.

I was about to mention that very Willamette Valley TRBO system. That or Silke's Passport system will be the only reliable region-wide dispatch options.

if you notice the article also says that this consolidation at sites will make use of spectrum allocations on all three of their licensed bands. This will mean all future Sprint handsets will also have to support PCS1900 (their primary band), 2.5GHz WiMAX, and now 800MHz ESMR, in addition to 800MHz cellular (for roaming capability). Right now Sprint only has a few handsets that support WiMAX and cellular/PCS, none of them support 800ESMR. So I'd love to know how this will save them money.

Welcome to the re-birth of ESMR. Sprint may have done us all a favor and brought our industry back to viability with their decision. Around here, I see Southern LINC getting alot of business once Sprint sunsets iDEN. They already bleed customers on the iDEN side as it is, with the system that stopped expanding in 2005, poor coverage and horrendous customer support.

MTS2000des wrote:Right now Sprint only has a few handsets that support WiMAX and cellular/PCS, none of them support 800ESMR. So I'd love to know how this will save them money.

Sounds like a boon for handset sales to me.

Maybe I missed something here, but is Nextel no longer going to have PTT, or is that still an unknown? I suspect that IF they have a robust PTT on CDMA, many will stick with Sprint. On the other hand, even IF they do have a robust PTT, many will start shopping around. I certainly think how they handle their affairs during the next couple of years will be critical. As an end user of Nextel, a few of my critical issues are:

-Coverage

-Missing Calls (I can be in a great coverage area, NOT actively on a call, and will get a message of a voicemail waiting for a missed call)

-While in Direct Connect, dial is routed to voice mail

There are other issues, too, but solving the above issue would go a long ways towards improving their service.

How many carriers are actively advertising their PTT over data products? I think I can count them on one fist.

Jim1348 wrote:-While in Direct Connect, dial is routed to voice mail

That, at least, was resolved with the advent of dual-mode CDMA/iDen handsets (ic502 et al.) They will happily notify you of income phone calls during a PTT conversation and vice versa.

Jim1348 wrote:Maybe I missed something here, but is Nextel no longer going to have PTT, or is that still an unknown? I suspect that IF they have a robust PTT on CDMA, many will stick with Sprint. On the other hand, even IF they do have a robust PTT, many will start shopping around.

Forget it. http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/spr ... z0YTqUoVUz

They've given up on CDMA PTT, given up on hybrid phones, given up on public safety customers, it's high time we give up on them. I used to think Nextel was the cat's pajamas; Sprint has ruined a once great empire.

Nope...wrong. That article is from a year ago. Things have changed.

M

resqguy911 wrote:

Jim1348 wrote:Maybe I missed something here, but is Nextel no longer going to have PTT, or is that still an unknown? I suspect that IF they have a robust PTT on CDMA, many will stick with Sprint. On the other hand, even IF they do have a robust PTT, many will start shopping around.

Forget it. http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/spr ... z0YTqUoVUz

They've given up on CDMA PTT, given up on hybrid phones, given up on public safety customers, it's high time we give up on them. I used to think Nextel was the cat's pajamas; Sprint has ruined a once great empire.

What did I miss rc50won? They only sell one CDMA PTT phone now. The only thing that has changed in a year is now we KNOW when Nextel is going away instead of just assuming it's coming soon. If there is some secret CDMA PTT revolution about to happen, why not clue us in?

More importantly, has there been some sort of engineering revolution that's allowed PTT over CDMA to work reliably? Does it no longer require a data plan? Does it no longer require an active data connection to the network in order for you to be able to receive calls?

From what I am being told, and it could just be a bunch of bunk, but it is coming from reasonable sources, Sprint will revitalize push to talk with a myriad of new features and services. There is supposed to be three marketing tracts: Consumer, B2B, and Gov. How they are going to implement this with their current and planned infrastructure is anyone's guess but with their current CDMA platform being fairly robust one would think they will be using it. Today's handset offerings don't tell the story.

M

I would love to believe that, but my agency is probably not going to wait. And we are likely the last holdout on Nextel in the entire region. We even gave the i1 the benefit of the doubt and put it thru the fireman test.

I found this interesting tidbit: http://sprintconnection.kansascity.com/?q=node/1643

The plan eventually will mean phasing out the iDEN network Sprint gained when it bought Nextel Partners in 2005. It also will preserve Nextel’s push-to-talk feature and bring it to the surviving CDMA network most Sprint customers use.

http://radioresourcemag.com/newsArticle ... ws_id=6450

Another article to look at.....

Talked to a friend of mine that works for Ericsson yesterday. He told me all of what is in this article before I found it as being what is happening in the field. What the article doesn't mention is LTE. The site radios will capable of that as well. I don't know if that helps the PTT issue though. I don't have a dog in this race so haven't really been following.

What I'd really like to know is what will happen to the spectrum on 900 MHz when iDen goes away.......

Dave

Former 900 MHz SMR interferee from nextel.... :-0

the Radio Resource magazine set the date for iDEN sunset in 2013. Wonder if they are incidentally timing this with the narrowband mandate in some sort of coincidence?

What has yet to be seen is exactly what PTT over cellular technology will be implemented, what handset manufacturers are going to dominate the product line up, and how they will migrate the iDEN customer base over. Not only Nextel, but Boost as well. iDEN still accounts for more Boost handset sales than CDMA, though they are growing CDMA product lines- but none of them offer any PTT capability.

They will have to offer a complete lineup of CDMA PTT capable devices, from low cost entry level (think Boost users) to enterprise grade rugged/IS rated units for public safety and industry. I'd love to see what a CDMA version of something like an i365 or r765 looks like and costs. They have their work ahead, to make this work they are going to have to do it right. and not mickey mouse around like they did the last time with that Qchat crap.

I still don't see how this is going to save them money. From the RR article, it is going to cost a ton o bucks to make happen.

Lookie lookie. New phone announced today and this is the description? "Sanyo Taho by Kyocera
Rugged device for customers who don't need push-to-talk services"


Thanks Sprint