Batboard

VHF saber, low-split

I received a couple of sabers recently.
They somewhat interesting and am interested if anyone has knowledge of this setup ?

These units have never been carried and are pristine. They appears to be a 'factory' production unit.
The ID sticker has been substitued with a sticker indicating 'QRT-160' along with a four digit serial number, 54xx.

I guess that the most interesting aspect is that when the transmit button is pressed, the unit transmits for 12 seconds. (TOT set to 12).
It transmits what I will call a 'data stream'.
Sounds similar to an MDC, RD-LAP or type 1 trunk control channel.


TMSS switch IS present, however the external rocker arm is NOT.
Non-secure top plate is on radio. TMSS appears to be in 'clear' position.

No secure module is present however it is evident that there was initially a 4-pin bypass module installed.

interesting note: found a 1/4" cut resistor lead laying on top of one of the ICs.


Programming:

One zone, named Z2 is programmed.

All receive frequiences match the transmit freq., however ALL are set to max. for squelch threshold AND have a 155 DPL.
ALL transmit channels are CSQ.

Transmit slaved to 'clear' transmit.

Transmit power levels:
ch.
1 L
2 M
3 H
4 S ( couple hundred millwatts)
10 M

Internal mods: (pic links below)

Wire connection between LCD module and 'secure module' pin # 13.
Wire passes through one of the secure-module 'guide holes'.

Secure module pin 1 -13 (appears to be a 'cap', however will not be certain prior to removal).

Secure module pin 1 -19, 8.2k resistor

diode installed ? (not certain if this is a mod)


Freqs :
Ch. / freq. /name
1 136.000 AON ( A on ?)
2 138.0125 AOF ( A off?)
3 140.0000 BON
4 142.0125 BOF
5 144.000
6 146.0125
7 148.000
8 150.800
9 136.000
10 147.700 AOF
11 136.000
12 136.000

pics:

secure module components


diode


passthru


LCD module connection


Very interested in knowledge of the use of these radios.

Ideas welcome as well.

thanks

Could we get a sample of the data these are sending? Perhaps an audio clip?

Thanks!

been thinking of this. don't have cpu mic. trying to figure an alternative.

ideas ?

d119 wrote:Could we get a sample of the data these are sending? Perhaps an audio clip?

Thanks!

Cellular phone voice note?

Laptop?

PDA?

You've definitely piqued my curiosity here with this one, no question...

Text?

Bleep blerp mmm gush beeep grrrr

ok, here ya go

http://www.speakeasy.org/~jhhcic/Motoro ... rt-160.wav

That actually sounds like a square wave like something is being shorted out? it's constant for a long time, if it was looking for a request it would be intermittant. don't sound like any data stream i've ever heard. is it actually transmitting that sound to another radio or is that what you hear out of the transmitting radio? does it transmit or recieve any voice? have you tried to create a new codeplug set up with just voice? Also what does the side terminal look like, does it look like the terminals are worn at all as if there's been a connector on them for a long time? that would be the only way to use an external device with it

[quote="HLA"]That actually sounds like a square wave like something is being shorted out? it's constant for a long time,

radio configured for 12 sec. TOT. a momentary push on transmit button results in 12 sec. transmit.


if it was looking for a request it would be intermittant.

receive squelch threshold set for max. i don't believe that this radio was intended for receive.


don't sound like any data stream i've ever heard. is it actually transmitting that sound to another radio or is that what you hear out of the transmitting radio?

the wav is audio as received by a monitor


does it transmit or recieve any voice?

no voice is passed by the mic, receive functions normally.


have you tried to create a new codeplug set up with just voice?

haven't modified anything yet.


Also what does the side terminal look like, does it look like the terminals are worn at all as if there's been a connector on them for a long time?

accessory cover has been removed, little/no wear marks

Wierd, audio sounds a lot like the Soviet Duga system that used to broadcast on HF but I'm sure it's only a coincidence.
The way the radio operates seems along the lines of a body alarm radio used in the prisons but the multi frequencies would seem
to negate this unless it had been re-programmed at some point. The frequencies look like a mix all over the band, perhaps test frequencies put in by someone who obtained it with a cluster of frequencies in the amateur 2m band.

forgot one thing. I haven't seen these previously although they may be common on newer units.

There are four circles imprinted into the back side of the case. The sequence of colors is different between the two units.

Nah that's definitely data being transmitted, and that housing photo is just plain STRANGE.

Curious - Does the radio have any add-on boards in it, or any IC's that look like they've been desoldered and replaced? Was/is there a secure module in the radio?

That is definately a data transmission.
I know that sound well...here, it's used to TX water level data from hilltop tanks in remote locations.
Typical band used here is in the 460 range.
The data is 'coded' for each specific location, so the levels and history can be tracked and studied for excessive water use/leakage, Etc...

The color coding above the Accy. port might be the frequency, or frequencies used with these radios.
Since the radio is a highband portable, decode the individual colors and see if any match the programmed channel data in the radio.

Just a suggestion....

i'll bet those 4 dots will tell the story, they look factory, just have to find someone that knows what they mean? i'd find someone that knows the sabre inside and out and have them look for anything added or removed and replaced. read the radio and save that codeplug then use the rss to create a new codeplug with all basic features and see if it transmits and recieves voice?

That sound may be what your water level gizmo sounds like but the transmitting radio would have to get it's info or data from somewhere, this guy only has the sabre with nothing feeding it. that's why i asked what the terminals looked like if it had something connected to it? plus this is a portable unit that needs to be charged, something sending water level info would probablly be a permanently mounted mobile unit.

THIS MAY BE TOTALLY UNRELATED...

But it may be the clue to unlock the mystery. You be the judge.

Search for "QRT" within the PDF.

http://www.lcswma.org/documents/form54minor.pdf

I've also heard that data signal before, but it was used with a road traffic counter....

Hi, Yes that is data, also used around here for water level. Our neighbring county used vhf Ht-1000's with a modified convertacom for powerand data transmission.I wished when they junked them I would have gotten one.

Steve
K4GFN

Well the colour code for the dots happens to be 5452 (for a red dot) or 5453 (if that's an orange dot) read from left to right. Which matches the SN given on the label.

The modulation is a short repeating phase modulated data pattern. But it could equally be a simple test signal taken from the LCD drive or refresh used to provide a modulated test signal.

I would guess, based on the frequencies and power levels, that it is a type approval test sample or perhaps a development item. Although on the other hand the colour coding is a bit elaborate for that.

Astro Spectra wrote:Well the colour code for the dots happens to be 5452 (for a red dot) or 5453 (if that's an orange dot) read from left to right. Which matches the SN given on the label.

The modulation is a short repeating phase modulated data pattern. But it could equally be a simple test signal taken from the LCD drive or refresh used to provide a modulated test signal.

I would guess, based on the frequencies and power levels, that it is a type approval test sample or perhaps a development item. Although on the other hand the colour coding is a bit elaborate for that.

if it were a development unit, I doubt it would have a serial number and FCC ID label on it.

racerman1cars wrote:Hi, Yes that is data, also used around here for water level. Our neighbring county used vhf Ht-1000's with a modified convertacom for powerand data transmission.I wished when they junked them I would have gotten one.

Steve
K4GFN

I've also seen that done with battery eliminators. Im gonna put my money on the water levels.

MTS2kdes - clearly not development of the original radio as the date code is 1991 and the Saber came out in 1989.

I meant development of some later feature or a development unit for a third party.

The parts around the secure module socket look factory (except for the black wire) and look like the mods that were done to support the high grade algorithms.

As for telemetry or SCADA - it's possible but the Saber would have been an expensive solution and why would you use a secure capable version of the radio?

The channels programed are suggestive of testing. Freqeuncies spaced accross the operating range and the power levels are the sort of setup a test lab would require for regulatory compliance testing. The Saber (and MX1000) was sold in a large number of countires most of which have their own type acceptance standards. Motorola would set up a unit and send them to either a US or foreign lab for these tests. But as I said the colour coding doesn't support this theory.

The frequencies found in those odd Sabers run the same range as the testing range that was used by Virginia during its testing and setup of the new STARS statewide VHF trunked system. That range also did include at least one channel in the 2M ham band, so the idea that the Sabers were system testing prototypes does make sense. Now if someone could decode the 12-second databurst we'd perhaps all know whose system this was.

Could it be a newer version of the prison radios that used to be made out of HT-220's. They only had a button on top and would send an emergency call, with no receive audio.

the biggest problem i'm seeing is that there are no additional boards or chips or encoding devices in this radio right now but somehow that radio is transmitting something, what is actually generating that signal or tone? sabres can't just generate that sound out of nowhere? I don't know the inside of sabres that well but what would happen if you un soldered that balck wire?

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:Could it be a newer version of the prison radios that used to be made out of HT-220's. They only had a button on top and would send an emergency call, with no receive audio.

BUT, the prison radios keyed, sent an ID, then went to open mic for the time set.

I love oddball and SP Motorola mysteries. Did some digging of my own and came across several references to QRT and data transmission. Looks like RF DataTech makes/made a line of SCADA transmitters with the QRT name. One model is called the QRT150. It's very possible they made an earlier version known as the QRT-160.

http://www.roundsolutions.com/pdf/QRTLOW.PDF

Just a thought.

hi guys, sorry for the delay. thanks for all of the great replies and ideas.

here are the pics of the ICs.

of special note on the LCD module component side, there seems to be three areas of interest that i did not see previously (lower right).


d119: no sceure module installed. 4 pin bypass appears to have been in the radio previously.

Astro Spectra: nice ! here is the other sequence that i have. green-yellow-green-blue. what is the serial number ?

Astro Spectra: what is the info that tells you this is a 1991 radio ?

HLA: are you a britt or aussie ? will do the mods sometime soon !


i will attempt to contact the seller to obtain additional info on the genesis of these radios. he did not respond to my last mail.

LCD ICs


mainboard ICs

british or australian? what even made you think of asking that? it says right under my pic in my info i'm in central Indiana

Q:

HLA wrote:british or australian? what even made you think of asking that? it says right under my pic in my info i'm in central Indiana

A:

HLA wrote:Sabres

Green-yellow-green-blue: 5456

Date codes see: http://www.batlabs.com/mfgtabl.html

MG: been meaning to say for a while - nice flickr photostream

corruptRSS: Nice MoToMystery™ to puzzle over for the silly season.

Happy new year to all!

Yeah.. the color code is standard.. you're just not used to seeing it in that context..
Black/Brown/Red/Orange/Yellow/Green/Blue/Violet/Grey/White

Date code? The markings on the chips are like batteries. 9114, 9115, 9040, etc. Happy new year to all. GARY N4KVE

techie wrote:Yeah.. the color code is standard.. you're just not used to seeing it in that context..
Black/Brown/Red/Orange/Yellow/Green/Blue/Violet/Grey/White

I've never seen this color coding used anywhere but on a resistor before. Used anywhere else (besides this odd Saber) ?

Not that common on equipment but standard on components such as resistors, inductors, and capacitors. Also items like transformer wires and thermocouples.

Colour codes of various types are everywhere you look, some so common we don’t even think about them like traffic lights. Others uses include mains flex, car and telco wiring, nail guns, stereo and video jacks, auto indicator and dash lights, religion, flags and heraldry, hospital cleaning materials and equipment, munitions (things that go bang), guitar pickups, security advisories, navigation lights, etc. There is even a science of the psychology of colours - think red and emotion.

Back on topic. I've looked at the audio file and it appears to be a short sequence repeated continuously with no discernable preamble. Looks like this:



This capture is exactly two repeats, each lasts about 15 ms.

Strongest spectral peaks occur at 387, 779, and 1254 Hz and given the 4FSK or phase modulation I expect the bit rate could be 2508 bps or perhaps 2400 bps if the sampling rate in the wav file is screwed up. Given that then the message is about 36 bits long.

Also it is not POCSAG, FLEX, or RDLAP.

Me thinks they are the radios from Jurrasic Park before it closed down

Pj wrote:Me thinks they are the radios from Jurrasic Park before it closed down

Astro Spectra wrote:Back on topic. I've looked at the audio file and it appears to be a short sequence repeated continuously with no discernable preamble. Looks like this:



This capture is exactly two repeats, each lasts about 15 ms.

Strongest spectral peaks occur at 387, 779, and 1254 Hz and given the 4FSK or phase modulation I expect the bit rate could be 2508 bps or perhaps 2400 bps if the sampling rate in the wav file is screwed up. Given that then the message is about 36 bits long.

Also it is not POCSAG, FLEX, or RDLAP.

Looks like coarse VF to me. Try 360j anterior-posterior and see if you get conversion.

But seriously, this is a really interesting topic. I'd love to see what the real answer is.