Batboard

ok i have been thinking all day today, what if batlabs would have a page in the main part of batlabs that was a listing of official freqs used and divided up by mode, technology and band.

these could be used at any hamfest any time, by those who frequent batlabs, so you plan to go to a mid size ham fest that nobody mentions on batlabs, if there are others that frequent batlabs with the same type radio setup there, you would hear and talk to them without cordinating anything.


here are some examples that the page could look like,
these are just an idea feel free to add or inprove the list.....

Lo Band

49.860 FM VOICE CSQ/PL/DPL PL 103.5/DPL 023
this freq is used by kiddie walkie talkies that have bout' a block range
clear mode/non secure
(this way all regular users of regular radios could be on this freq, if they choose to use CSQ or the specified batlabs tone or DPL they could)

49.830 FM DIGITAL ASTRO
this is a cordless phone freq.
astro digital mode
(i dont know much about astro options or keys so its kinda blank here)

49.870 FM DIGITAL ENCRYPTION DES/DVP OR XL
this is a cordless phone freq
also on the page, could be some BATLABS OFFICIAL KEYS
example... DES KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DVP KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DES-XL 123456789ABCDEF
DVP-XL 123456789ABCDEF
that way the common keys will give encryption compatibility to all who wish to use thier type of encryption so they have others to talk to.

VHF
for those who might have older motorola gear tuned down to ham, i think if possible that there should be freqs in the low 150-151 band so thier recievers will still be tuned for that area. it might be a strech to have stuff in the 155-170 area.

151.880 FM VOICE CSQ/PL/DPL PL 103.5/DPL 023
this is a MURS freq. (used in dayton 2002 hamvention
clear mode/non secure
(this way all regular users of regular radios could be on this freq, if they choose to use CSQ or the specified batlabs tone or DPL they could)

151.820 FM DIGITAL ASTRO
this is a murs freq.
astro digital mode
(i dont know much about astro options or keys so its kinda blank here)

151.940 FM DIGITAL ENCRYPTION DES/DVP OR XL
this is a murs freq.
also on the page, could be some BATLABS OFFICIAL KEYS
example... DES KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DVP KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DES-XL 123456789ABCDEF
DVP-XL 123456789ABCDEF
that way the common keys will give encryption compatibility to all who wish to use thier type of encryption so they have others to talk to.


UHF

(i know the frs freqs are over crowded and the picking of a GMRS main freq might happen to have an actual repeater in the area so that would minimize range, so i am not quite sure what other biz freqs are available.

for those who might have older motorola gear tuned down to ham, i think if possible that there should be freqs in the low 450 band so thier recievers will still be tuned for that area. it might be a strech to have stuff in the 460-470 area.

ok i will just randomly pic some example freqs and put the info below them (please give insight as to what freqs might be better in the low 450 area)

UHF
452. 4625 FM VOICE CSQ/PL/DPL PL 103.5/DPL 023
clear mode/non secure
(this way all regular users of regular radios could be on this freq, if they choose to use CSQ or the specified batlabs tone or DPL they could)

452.5625 FM DIGITAL ASTRO
astro digital mode
(i dont know much about astro options or keys so its kinda blank here)

452.6875 FM DIGITAL ENCRYPTION DES/DVP OR XL
also on the page, could be some BATLABS OFFICIAL KEYS
example... DES KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DVP KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DES-XL 123456789ABCDEF
DVP-XL 123456789ABCDEF
that way the common keys will give encryption compatibility to all who wish to use thier type of encryption so they have others to talk to.


800 MHZ (i have found the motorola national 800Mhz conventional freq works quite will, and you know that nextel or any public safety people will not be oficially using it.)
when i use it, i dont hear lots of traffic, a little but not alot.

853.4875 FM VOICE CSQ/PL/DPL PL 103.5/DPL 023
clear mode/non secure
(this way all regular users of regular radios could be on this freq, if they choose to use CSQ or the specified batlabs tone or DPL they could)

(it is rare for me to hear a public safety or bizness system in the low 851 area, the area at one time, was popular for conventional activity. so for the sake of example i will randomly pick some 851 freqs)

851.4875 FM DIGITAL ASTRO
astro digital mode
(i dont know much about astro options or keys so its kinda blank here)

851.5875 FM DIGITAL ENCRYPTION DES/DVP OR XL
also on the page, could be some BATLABS OFFICIAL KEYS
example... DES KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DVP KEY 123456789ABCDEF
DES-XL 123456789ABCDEF
DVP-XL 123456789ABCDEF
that way the common keys will give encryption compatibility to all who wish to use thier type of encryption so they have others to talk to.

900 Mhz (all the same info as above, i think the motorola national 900 talkaround is 936.0625 or something like it.)


well if batlabs could get a dedicated "batlabs offical frequencys/modes and KEYS page for all get togethers", that would be so cool.

please tell me what you all think of a page with information similar to this
and if i have forgotten a kind of mode, throw it in here too

I think it's too complicated. Let's all stick to 151.88/D132 and let it go at that.

Many of the channels you have proposed would require licensing, wouldn't they?

Also, with a zillion options as to channels and modes, ten Batlabs people at a hamfest would never hook up anyway, at least by only using radio.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

I think it's too complicated. Let's all stick to 151.88/D132 and let it go at that.

Many of the channels you have proposed would require licensing, wouldn't they?

Also, with a zillion options as to channels and modes, ten Batlabs people at a hamfest would never hook up anyway, at least by only using radio.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

I like it but I think on freq. per band would be better. Then you could move to astro if you wanted to or DES. I like the idea of a low band, and 900 channel too.

mancow

It is all well thought out but does seem very complicated. Last years plan was 3 VHF and 3 UHF channels plus a Crossband 2m to 70cm.....All with DPLs of 143. It all worked nicely. I think I still have that post that Alex made printed out in my file folder of crap. I can re-type it and re-post it if anyone like if they don't feel like searching.

Disregard re-typing.....click the link below.


http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ght=dayton

As a correction, it was a DPL of 143

Anyone have a nationwide license they want do allow us to have blanket use of? heh.

It's not a bad idea to have a general channel to use. I think one in each band is more than enough.

Dayton is a very special consideration simply because there is so much RF floating around you never know what you'll be able to use.

-Alex

How about we use Echo 462.7000 GMRS DPL 331 as the astro freq. I think that using a gmrs freq would be better for AStro use than would a ham freq.
I for one have a gmrs freq but no ham ticket, and use an astro every day, so if we could come up with the specific freq (gmrs) and things such as group id, individual id's, call id's, talkgroup, network id, digital mod. type, and such.......

I know what default options are, however, everyone might not, so let's get some information posted as to the above items so everyone can tweak their radios to the right settings.

Anyone

If you are up in ct. i am lincesed on 159.855 pl 110.9 100watts

This is probably a crazy and off-the-wall idea, but reading Alex's post about a blanket license made me think..

Maybe everybody could donate a little bit of money to a fund that would go toward getting the "Batlabs" organization its own business license/freq for its members to use. I know that such a project may not possible be or practical, or even legal for that matter, but the idea of it would be pretty cool. Just a thought...

If it would be legal I would be in but I don't see how it would work. Non Profit organization maybe??


mancow

That is the best Idea I have heard yet - people could use it for events in their area, talking between friends, etc. Id be willing to donate! Alex, you have any idea or can you do some checking on if this can be done?

I don't think it's a bad idea at all. I don't know how you go about getting a national frequency, if it's really even possible...

If someone wants to look into this and report back to the group, that would be cool. However, it would be up to Bat to decide if his name on any level is used on the application or anything like that. Keep in mind too that he's in British Columbia somewhere (I think at least...) You guys know as much about him as I do... so getting a license in the US doesn't do him much good (personally)...

I think the best idea that I could come up with would be to see about creating a IRLP "node" that you can connect one of your local repeaters to so we can communicate through that... That would be a very cool setup. But again, you still need to be a ham.

I don't think there's going to be a happy medium that includes everyone. We can certainly try though.

-Alex

(and to clairfy - by bat's name i mean batlabs more than anything else... I don't want to step on toes...)

While we are at it, how about a national SmartZone system?

Could you imagine that a website about Motorola could have a potential to have a wide area radio network of Motorola radios...larger then Motorola themselves?

Hmmmm...

I know that getting a national freq is possible - and anyone may use it as long as they have permission from the owner - SO............ LETS DO IT! Im sure KC8RYW will chime in - he is very skilled in FCC regs and licensing and things like that. Jon, know anything? It can be used by batlabs members for anything and everything - hunting trips, sporting events, travelling, etc. I think it would be great!

I like the thought of a national Batlabs frequeny or 2.

You could choose a business itinerant frequency or go through whatever coordination and crap is needed to license a single frequency throughout the U.S.

I don't know what band you have in mind, but I've always had a hankering to use 800Mhz for something other than "listen only".

UHF (450-470) and VHF (150-174) works for me too, though.

-Josh

As I think about this a problem arrises.

Who is going to control it, monitor, and ultimatly accept responsibility for it's use?

I certainly wouldn't want Joe blow from the FCC knocking on my door for something that David Jones did with that frequency in TX.

*NOTE* That comment does not open up any discussion on david jones... Just an example.

You guys see where I'm coming from in that respect?

I love the idea - please don't get me wrong, but I think we need to analyze every aspect, and manage as best we can to do it.

And if we do get a frequency, we need a repeater pair

-Alex

Now the hard question, VHF or UHF ? I vote for VHF since that's what I have most of but I suppose many other factors would come into play first.

I think a commercial VHF LOW freq. (maybe additional to another vhf) would be neat being the 29mhz stuff has been going crazy lately. Image giving a shout out to some other Batlabs fool several states away. CRAZY

I wish more people would be willing to get a ham ticket then we could park on an oddball 10 meter FM channel and have a Batlabs net. Oh well....

I'm probably getting the cart before the horse.

Also, if someone does something stupid with it who would be at fault. If responsibility of use would fall on the user not Batlabs I think it would go alot easier.

Just some thoughts....

mancow

I think it should be a UHF freq. true it is a bit jammed, but, hey, I only have a UHF portable lol

I like the idea

Why not something odd, like down in the U.S. industrial band 71 Mhz. , then I could finally use some of these oddball Sabers!!

10-95 wrote:Why not something odd, like down in the U.S. industrial band 71 Mhz. , then I could finally use some of these oddball Sabers!!

And you'd have orders from just about everyone....

-Alex

I know of a business locally who has such an animal.
I will inquire and get back to the board.

Their channel is a repeater pair on UHF 460 range

Ciao

Does anyone on here live around the KC area? This topic got wondering if anyone else is around me close enough to hear anything from a base station.

mancow

Well if it comes to administering and coordination couldn't there be a committee set up on the board by the moderators or even Bat, Steve or Jon?

Ie: Frequency Committee
Alex - Admin
Monty - Moderator
Code3Responce - Board Member
KC8RYW - Board Member

That is just an example(hopefully I'm not inflating any egos) but you get a few of the core people that can virtual chat and find the best possible solution. Even if you have "District Frequencies" And split the nation into districts or by state whatever.....that can all be decided at a later point....then you have your district chairpersons(gotta be PC) to administer the frequencies and everyone in the group can use those specified frequencies when in those areas....

Does any of that make sense?

JAYMZ5329 wrote:Well if it comes to administering and coordination couldn't there be a committee set up on the board by the moderators or even Bat, Steve or Jon?

Ie: Frequency Committee
Alex - Admin
Monty - Moderator
Code3Responce - Board Member
KC8RYW - Board Member

That is just an example(hopefully I'm not inflating any egos) but you get a few of the core people that can virtual chat and find the best possible solution. Even if you have "District Frequencies" And split the nation into districts or by state whatever.....that can all be decided at a later point....then you have your district chairpersons(gotta be PC) to administer the frequencies and everyone in the group can use those specified frequencies when in those areas....

Does any of that make sense?

That still might be making things too complicated.

You know the old saying, "keep it simple stupid". One or two frequencies is great (talkaround, repeater). Better yet, you could create an "echolink", IRLP, or whatever station throughout the land as time progresses. You could talk country-wide. I'd really like to see linking done where I could 'dial up' a base station and connect to one far off. But even that would be complicated!

-Josh

This guy Josh is right on target. IRLP link across the U.S. and Canada, well you'd have to check with D.O.C. for a frequency up there. This is a great idea Josh.


Frank

Id be fine with joining up in a "committee" for this! Alex brought up the idea of unauthorized users. Im tihkning something that has written consent to use the frequency by the owner - with the users name, address, telephone number, etc to be kept on file with him. That way, it is easy to see who is authorized to use the channel, and who is not. Just an idea. KC8 - you in on this?

Code3Response wrote:Id be fine with joining up in a "committee" for this! Alex brought up the idea of unauthorized users. Im tihkning something that has written consent to use the frequency by the owner - with the users name, address, telephone number, etc to be kept on file with him. That way, it is easy to see who is authorized to use the channel, and who is not. Just an idea. KC8 - you in on this?

That sounds like a good idea to me, even though you aren't addressing me (I'm a KC8 also- KC8UTI)

I don't, however, know what could be done about enforcement though.

-Josh

enforcement ???? how about motorolas

MDC 1200 ??

MDC 600 ??

for repeater access ???

i also think a nation wide 440 or 150 would be kinda cool

It was really just a suggestion. I honestly would nto want to be on the committee....I'm not a big committtee person as it is. If you need someone to do a little legwork/paperwork....That's fine I can handle that.

I suggested the committee based on the fact that it could/would be difficult to get one nationwide frequency. Another alternative is with the IRLP links for us HAMS is use the ham bands on everyones ends....so that way everyone can use whatever frequency works best for them...me personally I like 2 meters....2nd choice is 6 meters....etc. Anyone interested should throw there 2 cents in a barrel and then see how everything shakes out.

Using the HAM idea it might possibly encourage the non-HAMs to possibly go for there ticket encourage interest in Amateur Radio....Just like any volunteer fire/ems department's Recruitment and Retention System....

Yike, I don't check the board for a day, and look what I miss out on.

There are various frequencies across the spectrum that are avaliable for low-power and/or itenerant usage. These do not require coordination, and in most cases, can be licensed for nationwide, or multiple state areas.

These would be:

27.4900 27.5100 27.5300 30.8400 33.1200
33.1400 33.4000 35.0200 35.0400 42.9800
43.0400

151.5050 151.6250 154.5700 154.6000
158.4000

457.5250 457.5500 457.5750 457.6000

I haven't checked the nitty gritty under Part 90 for these frequencies yet.

Ok folks my company has a nationwide licence on a few itinerant channels

154.5275
151.625
151.700
154.570
464.500
469.500
464.550
469.550

If one or two would be of use for the natnl batlabs freqs I would be more than happy to allow all to use the freqs providing we can come up with a list of users to keep on file for control purposes.

Vince

vcaruso wrote:Ok folks my company has a nationwide licence on a few itinerant channels

154.5275
151.625
151.700
154.570
464.500
469.500
464.550
469.550

If one or two would be of use for the natnl batlabs freqs I would be more than happy to allow all to use the freqs providing we can come up with a list of users to keep on file for control purposes.

Vince

Holy cow, we're in business!

what's the call-sign and maximum wattage allowed? (I like to use call-signs)

While it'd be totally awesome, they're all itinerant frequencies, most with a lot of users already. But hey, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

On the same note, 464.5 is probably a good one!

-Josh

KC8RYW I like that 30.840 freq. Nationwide skip would be the norm lately. Of course after you battled talking over the Mexican police. Plus all that low band equipment would be useful again. I would still want a vhf or uhf too though.


mancow

How would a person go about getting a licence for one of those 30 meg freqs. Do you have to have a legitimate business reason?

mancow

The call is WPWC213
5 Watt portables, 35 watt mobiles 35 watt base

The way to keep unauthrized users is to assign user #s & maintain a list of same.

vcaruso wrote:The call is WPWC213
5 Watt portables, 35 watt mobiles 35 watt base

That's pretty good! Any ERP limits?

I can't wait to find out what happens along the lines of a decision on which freq. will be used.

I only hope that it's the UHF. FRS is too overloaded and my only other communication option with one of my good friends is the city high school's UHF "security" frequency: 466.9125- totally dead frequency. It works out nicely.

-Josh

A way to keep track of users.

I'm a board tech member for a Ham club that after a Ham makes a donation we keep a record of his membership number and Email, There are a couple of Repeaters and Autopatches that only members can use, We can control who uses the repeaters by sending an Email to those that are members and let them know what the PL is for the Repeater and What DTMF Activates th patch.

I thought this would give a good Idea into something someone can work with. If we set up a mailing list for only those that "Paid Dues" (so to say, Donations mainly) And let them know what the freq and DPL/PL is, of course this is not fool proof, but hey, what really is??

I would be willing to set up a IRLP repeater in the middle colorado area, if I can find some funding for it. It would be nice to have it.

Just some of my food for thought,

I AM WILLING TO HELP WITH THIS PROJECT ANYWAY I CAN, JUST LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU NEED!!

Thanks,

I recently got a license for nationwide operation on the following frequencies:

35.040, 110 watts
151.625, 110 watts
464.500, 35 watts
464.550, 35 watts
469.500, 35 watts
469.550, 35 watts

Runs $100 for 10 years, no coordination needed. I have them licensed as station class MOI (mobile, itinerant). Easy to get the license, the most important thing is the eligibility requirement. I put down "applicant is engaged in installation and maintenance of computer networks" or something real close.

Applying online with the FCC's ULS is reasonably simple - not overly so, but if you're familiar with how most of the FCC's databases work, it's not really difficult. The GMRS application process is much more straightforward, mostly because you don't have to specify frequency or location data.

Anyway, my $0.02. The biggest issue here is rules compliance. FWIW on a "common" Batlabs frequency is pick a frequency and PL in each band (DPL and particularly inverted DPL aren't good choices as some of the older /\/\ stuff doesn't support it)... if you wanna run encryption or digital modulation, do it. If you don't want to, don't.

--mws
http://www.scanchattanooga.com/

I like this thread - it's pretty cool. I think coordination among folks is pretty interesting....

BUT...

I'm curious about these Motorola 800 / 900 freqs mentioned in the first post. I've never heard of them....Anyone know?

Jay

The IRLP repeater is a good idea I like it....the only problem I see with that is anyone who wants to set one up that lacks a broadband connection. To me not that big of a deal. I would like to see some sort of nationwide coordination for the "members" of said network with ID's, Authorization, etc so that if I'm a member and I go to California I can use the california channel or repeater and talk to other members. I don't think this should be a public list though. You don't want non-members kerchunking the repeater. I have to read further to see the allowances of it but I would allow Batlabs members to use a GMRS repeater I am going to set up soon. I hold a GMRS license and would need to get the ins and outs of doing that.

Here's how I see things.

Go ahead and take 464/469.5 as the official Batlabs frequency.

Implement IRLP at some point.

You can have repeaters on the split to cover metro areas as well as base station links.

I don't know if it can be done, but lets say for example I have a link station set up here at home in Michigan and there's another link in Chicago ill. Set up a system where with the DTMF function of a radio, I can "dial-up" and operate the chicago station from home or the Detroit station from Chicago.

----------------

Authorized users could be given a number (perhaps up to 4 Hex digits long or decimal equivalent) and be programmed into a radio as MDC1200 signalling or DTMF PTT-ID. If a radio has neither capability, then the user can simply state his/her ID on the radio.

Other users in the area can program their radios with MDC-decode or DTMF decode can have these IDs programmed into their radio. When an odd ID pops up that isn't in there for some reason then the problem may be that they are unauthorized.

Records of who's who can be kept on a special portion of the board requiring batboard membership to enter it, possibly as a long list or Excel file.

I don't know what to do about donations. I am not totally sure how many people are interested in this idea myself. I figure if we can all spare $10 then we should donate it! This will add up fast and fund either licensing expense or IRLP equipment and technology- possibly even the upkeep of the board upon descretion of whoever is in charge.

I may be complicating things again but what else can I say. It makes sense to me at least

-Josh

As long as you can keep the price down you can count me in.
This a great idea if somebody can get it all together.
Let me know if I can help.

Wow.

Alrighty - there's a lot of interest here.

If you are interested in this project, I suggest we convine an online meeting of sorts to discuss.

-Alex

I would be more than willing to donate $10-$20 to have use of a frequency.

I think if this does happen, which I have no doubt that it will, that there should be an Information packet pertaining to the use of the frequency. The information packet would include all of the frequency specifics, ie... frequency, pl, id etc, and also general guidlines for usage of the frequency.


I have some questions also. I am a simple radio listener and very rarely use a DOT frequency on my low wattage portable for very simple things. I do not understand what everyone is talking about with IRLP reapeaters, MDC 1200, MDC 600, etc. Can somebody give me an idea on how these work?


I cant wait for this to be in affect. I will be watching this post till the end.

Thank you
Josh S.

Count me in to, $10-20 is no big deal. It would be great to talk to some of the people on this board.

I'd prefer UHF as that's what I have.

firebuff17 wrote:I would be more than willing to donate $10-$20 to have use of a frequency.

I think if this does happen, which I have no doubt that it will, that there should be an Information packet pertaining to the use of the frequency. The information packet would include all of the frequency specifics, ie... frequency, pl, id etc, and also general guidlines for usage of the frequency.


I have some questions also. I am a simple radio listener and very rarely use a DOT frequency on my low wattage portable for very simple things. I do not understand what everyone is talking about with IRLP reapeaters, MDC 1200, MDC 600, etc. Can somebody give me an idea on how these work?


I cant wait for this to be in affect. I will be watching this post till the end.

Thank you
Josh S.

as for the information packet, i think it could simply be one page off of the main batlabs page, with whatever information is needed to use a channel and certain requirements.

as for MDC600/1200 these are signaling formats used by some newer motorola radios when you key up or in some cases unkey, MDC600 sounds like a slow data burst, MDC 1200 sounds like a quick data burst. certain systems can decode MDC and display the data id on a screen, or it can activate some electronic device or function at a base or repeater, such as repeater access. some older motorola radios could do mdc, but some required an add on board.
as for IRLP, i think it is an internet network that allows a user sitting at thier computer to connect to another computer that is connected to a radio in another city or state and talk thru that other radio using the computers mic. (i think thats how it works.) someone on the other end has a special computer card that runs software and connects to a radio.

as for chipping in some money for some licensing for official batlabs freqs, count me in, i could do 10-15$ thru paypal option to either batlabs site or someone else that is designated to recieve the funds.

hope fully we can see atleast a VHF freq, and a UHF freq. a lo band freq in the upper 43-50 would be cool too, to allow some motorola gear that is tuned up to ham, to still be tuned near it. (i am sure theres lots of people out here that have motorola gear tuned up into 6m 50-54mhz)
thats why i sugested a low 151 freq, for those who have older motorola radios that have been tuned down into ham. my personal example is i have a VHF mx300s it, is quite narrow in its tuning, does 145-151, it drops off fast higher than 151.

i am even considering getting a syntor XX VHF 80 watt radio, wich i will figure falls under the same situation of tuning. i would love to put a batlabs freq into it as well.

You can count me in as well. Alex, when is this 'online meeting' going to held? I'll try my best to be there.

As for number asignments, I'd like to use '161' if we go that route...
I know, I'm getting ahead of myself.

Can't wait to see how this turns out...

Scott

I still think a lowband freq at the bottom end would be best (for the low freq. if one is ever created). The opportunity to get some DX is alot higher than something near 6meters and the equipment is much cheaper.

Anyway count me in for atleast $20 if needed.

mancow

464.500/464.550 sounds cool.
Already have a licence for those freq's down here, so that would be COOL!!! IF we can get enought interest in that, then I do believe Motorola would like to get involved too, since we would no doubt be using Motorola Equipment. They would probobly be interested in knowing how well that would work.
Maybe we could get some sponsorship??? Just Imagine.....a nation-wide Motoroala repeater link from sea to shining sea with XTS5000's......JOY!!!
JS