What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time?

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Jim1348
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What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time?

Post by Jim1348 »

I realize that people beyond the United States borders read this, but anyway with the FCC Narrowbanding Deadline less than a year away, does anybody have any prediction on what percentage of users simply will not comply? I realize that is probably difficult to predict, but perhaps some here in the land mobile business have some idea of how many unlicnesed sytems there are on the air and what not. And, perhaps more importantly, what if anything will the FCC do about it when they do recieve legitimate complaint? It seems to me that the FCC it pretty much or a "paper tiger" or shall I say a "toothless tiger". They can grownl, but without teeth it is pretty hard to bite. I suppose public safety will be at the top of the priority list. If someone is creating interference and they haven't complied with the narrow-banding they may get a Notice Of Apparent Liability or what ever they may call them now. Any, do people here think the lion's share of users are, or will be, in compliance by 01-01-2013?
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by RADIOMAN2002 »

I think it will depend on how fast the splinter channels are licensed and are put in use. Then complaints will come in and the FCC will do something what I don't know yet. Any agency that doesn't at least turn their deviation down to 2.5kc is going to be a red flag out there. If they do it's not very likely that they would even get caught. In 1973 we were still finding radios out there that hadn't gone through the first narrow banding process from the 60's.
My agency is about 60-70% done, the main problem now is equipment delivery. With over 1100 replacement portables, 250 mobiles, and 110 base stations on order. It's not that we won't it's we can't. We do have some contingency plans, but the equipment still will need replacement.
Last I heard they were about a dozen or so agencies that requested a waiver. Mainly large agencies (we are in that boat). I havn't been able to find anything for NYPD, they are the one whose waiver I would love to see, after the statement made by the PD brass that (what are they going to do, take away our radios!!)
Toothless tiger or not, the FCC can do some serious damage to you budget it just may take some time. There have been some depts in N.J. that have been cited for using digital without changing their license.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by RadioSouth »

It's been in the works a long time and there's been lot's of notice so there's really no surprise here BUT considering the current financial problems in the US and just no $$ in a lot of budgets to cover this it's something that could easily be deferred, public safety people are being laid off and this shouldn't be a catalyst to laying off any others. Narrowbanding can wait, there are just more important priorities at current IMHO.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by escomm »

Nonsense. Narrowbanding has been on the table for 10 years, there are no excuses about budgets or needing waivers or anything. I know the FCC made it clear that there would be no exceptions and no waivers granted for any reason past the upcoming deadline and I hope they stick to their guns on it. And I hope the FCC does go after those who fail to comply with the mandate or else those who did plan properly and get their houses in order will have invested a lot of time and effort for naught.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by N4KVE »

While most people are talking about government entities, what about the guy who has 3 dump trucks operating on an unlicensed freq? Plenty of people doing that, & the last thing on their mind is purchasing 3 new radios. Even companies who are legally assigned to a freq are more concerned with making sure all trucks are running correctly & live a day to day existence. They don't even have $5 to spend on a radio unless it breaks. I'm sure there are many small mom & pop taxi companies, delivery services, & the like who either don't know about narrow band, or do, but haven't got the cash, or could care less. That's just life during a poor economy, & the last thing they want to hear is they have to blow a wad of cash to buy new radios when the existing ones work fine. GARY N4KVE
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Bigred »

We've been banging the drum now for a couple of years and to be honest, I've been surprised at the response. Considering the economic climate, customers have been willing to crack the wallet and make the necessary upgrades. Switched quite a few to digital. Although not required, it seems to be to be the logical time to move ahead.

As Gary mentioned, there are those "mom and pops" that just are not going to make that commitment until they are dragged screaming into it. Of those, the typical response is from deer in headlights to a defiant hell no! I would hazard that this is less than 10% of the customer base.

I guess it would all depend on how fast those splinters are grabbed up, but I would suspect the squabbles will last for several years before things even out.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by tvsjr »

escomm wrote:Nonsense. Narrowbanding has been on the table for 10 years, there are no excuses about budgets or needing waivers or anything. I know the FCC made it clear that there would be no exceptions and no waivers granted for any reason past the upcoming deadline and I hope they stick to their guns on it. And I hope the FCC does go after those who fail to comply with the mandate or else those who did plan properly and get their houses in order will have invested a lot of time and effort for naught.
Really? My fire department has a relatively decent budget, and I have handhelds in service that aren't narrowbandable. Yes, we've applied for grants... we're too close to a big city, but too far away to be truly rural. Unless we get an influx of cash from somewhere, I'm going to have far less firefighters on the fireground with portables (it's only about 50% right now...)
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by escomm »

tvsjr wrote:Really? My fire department has a relatively decent budget, and I have handhelds in service that aren't narrowbandable. Yes, we've applied for grants... we're too close to a big city, but too far away to be truly rural. Unless we get an influx of cash from somewhere, I'm going to have far less firefighters on the fireground with portables (it's only about 50% right now...)
Again, it's been on the table for 10 years. More than that, really, and the big /\/\ hasn't had a wideband only radio in the catalog for over 15 years. That radios that old are being used tells me the decision makers don't take their radio system very seriously but that's not really germane to the discussion. Bottom line is that there are no excuses and now that beds have been slept in they're going to need to be made.

That said, your state has its own interesting politics with regard to volunteer FD funding. Maybe if you pray for a waiver it will rain down on you. Pun intended. Ha.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Spiffy50 »

Looking from a realistic perspective, if a service (just for example, take the NYPD) were to apply for a time extention and be denied, and were to continue using their wide-band gear past the date just what could the FCC do? I realize they can impose financial sanctions, but what authority does the FCC have to collect? That is, what if NYPD simply said "Yes we got your notice of infraction, but we still aren't switching nor paying"? I could see a lot of public safety agencies taking that stand.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by RadioSouth »

We'll have to see how it all plays out. There had already been an extension granted on dual mode equipment sale and there's a bill (I believe it was in the House) to extend the 2013 mandate till 2015.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by HLA »

same thing with taxes, what if everyone just stood up and said we were not gonna pay taxes anymore, what would happen?
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by wkr518 »

I will have to research it, but as in the Audits from 2002 or 2004 or so I would think the FCC just scans the database of licenses and if it find wide band VHF and UHF licenses with no waivers,pending modifications or such they would just cancel the licenses outright.
Then the entity is operating illegally anyways.
I have been beating down doors with customers since 2010 on my lists to go narrow band or at least let me modify the call signs to 12.5 emission designators.I would say about :
40% are seriously concerned and planning and actively getting ready for deadline
430% are concerned and sitting on their hands thinking I will be working 120 hrs a week between December 1st and the 31st at their beck and call to handle this
10% could not be bothered as they are trying to stay afloat as it and its not a priority in their minds and wallets
20% thinks its scam by vendors to scare them into parting with more money since their existing radios work fine and have been for years.
Toothless Tiger or not,I know a few people willing to collect a decent salary driving around with scanners to see if cancelled licensees are still operating on the channels.Certainly more than enough fines could cover payroll to have a few of these folks in each state.

They can roar and growl all they want, not until they actually bite will anyone take notice or comply.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by KitN1MCC »

i had the same problem here. one of the places i used to volunteer at for years i tried to get them to go narrow but the new boss dragged his feet then told me my services were not needed and went to the local shop and paid out the wazoo for new radios (not motorola)

as for my commercial guys i am putting up a TRBO repeater and there all going TRBO with the old channels as back ups narrow band.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by SteveC0625 »

Unless some congressional bozos enact legislation to push back the mandate deadline, or exempt a few licensees, I think they'll stick to the deadline.

Initially, they'll just jump on those that haven't modified licenses for NB.

But the fun is going to start when the complaints start rolling in. It may take a while, but it will happen. Licensee A, who spent the buck and upgraded his inventory on time, files a complaint about interference. The logic will be that "I followed the rules and spent a lot of money, time, and effort to meet your deadline. The interference is coming from someone who ignored the mandate and is still running WB. Now fix it!"

If the FCC can't move swiftly, congresscritters are going to be inundated with complaints about lack of enforcement.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by kc7gr »

My own prediction is very simple, and has very little to do with the FCC.

Specifically: I predict a BIG flood of surplus radio gear hitting the hamateur market! :D

Happy hunting.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Cam »

escomm wrote:Nonsense. Narrowbanding has been on the table for 10 years, there are no excuses about budgets or needing waivers or anything. I know the FCC made it clear that there would be no exceptions and no waivers granted for any reason past the upcoming deadline and I hope they stick to their guns on it. And I hope the FCC does go after those who fail to comply with the mandate or else those who did plan properly and get their houses in order will have invested a lot of time and effort for naught.
+1

At some point there has to be a hard and fast date that apples to everyone. It's not like this is some new, unknown out of the blue happening. Planning and budgeting should have happen years ago, there is really no excuse at this point.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by SteveC0625 »

kc7gr wrote:Specifically: I predict a BIG flood of surplus radio gear hitting the hamateur market!
Very true, but for those of us disposing of this gear, the price will bottom out rapidly because of the sheer number of radios coming available.

I've been watching prices on Ebay and elsewhere for specific radios plus the Minitor pagers. Minitor II's were going for around $75 or better just a year ago. Now I am seeing them for $15 plus shipping. III's are dropping, too, but not so fast.

But the good news is that parts for the II's like reeds and cases are coming on the market so those that want to keep their II's going will have plenty of resources.

I suppose that the good news is that ham groups like RACES can stockpile a bunch of radios for pennies.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Motoboy »

Going back to wkr518's post, I would estimate his figures are on track. When I went with our new salesman to visit a some customers and spread the word about narrowbanding, the same questions kept coming up, and I don't know if a single customer liked hearing the answer. The now-seasoned salesman and I had quite a few doors literally slammed in our faces when we brought up the fact that the customers would need to replace their equipment that is working perfectly.

We went out to a local business whose FLEXAR repeater I worked on my first week here at the local MSS. We hadn't heard anything for a few years, so I assumed everything was working well. The first thing I noticed was that the FLEXAR was replaced by a VXR7000. Instead of MAXAR's, they were running CM200's. Thinking they started using another shop, I asked nonchalantly asked where the stuff came from. Turns out the slightly used equipment was a lot on an auction they went to in another state! It was narrowband but it was licensed for use 500 miles away. This is a testament to the ignorance of people using radios. There are a lot of people out there that think the same laws that govern CB's govern all types of two-way communications. I think the figure is around 30% for people who are just plain ignorant!

Think of how it would be if you could go to another state and willy-nilly buy 25 assault rifles and put one in each vehicle in your fleet.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by com501 »

Would we have to replace the existing weapons? Or just add? (Things in Nevada are a little different.....!)
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by KitN1MCC »

maybe the return of low band
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by com501 »

KitN1MCC wrote:maybe the return of low band
I'll second that.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by RADIOMAN2002 »

I actually was thinking the same thing, license a dozen low band channels as FB-8's and put up a trunking system. If I use the 43 or 47 MHZ freqs as mobile transmits the antenna would only be as big as a VHF high-gain. I would love to get the old MTS freqs.
If anyone plans on driving around and looking for unlicensed users, and try to profit from that. A word of warning, doing that may be construed that you used a radio by listening for profit, and as far as the FCC they will be busy enough without the rantings of some radio dealer trying to cash in on people who didn't comply. The FCC also doesn't and hasn't for a long time allowed co-users to or others as a means of proving or disproving a user operating on a channel. Such as when you try to take over a channel that some user either was on or is still on. It almost takes an act of Congress to get that done, plus now all a use has to do is transmit once a year to keep their license. I know I have tried to get numerous Power frequencies in my area that are paper licensed and not being used.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by N4DES »

The marching orders have been clear for 10 years from the FCC and agencies had adequate time to plan when the economy was good. Unfortunately "other" priorities took center stage in most agencies after 9/11 that I have seen locally and grant dollars went to buying other toys that were not communication related. Luckily the only systems that I had to do was a scaled down UHF MEDCOM system that was recently completed and our regional water plants, but a majority of those are comprised of all newer equipment so we just have to coordinate the reprogramming.

Of course we had tons of practice as we are now into the final lap of completing re-banding. :D

As to others that have been waiting for the 11th hour, they can delay and delay, but once the license goes away and/or an adjacent channel user gets licensed and the interference complaints begin, they will have a lots of explaining to do.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Bill_G »

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:I actually was thinking the same thing, license a dozen low band channels as FB-8's and put up a trunking system. If I use the 43 or 47 MHZ freqs as mobile transmits the antenna would only be as big as a VHF high-gain. I would love to get the old MTS freqs.
If anyone plans on driving around and looking for unlicensed users, and try to profit from that. A word of warning, doing that may be construed that you used a radio by listening for profit, and as far as the FCC they will be busy enough without the rantings of some radio dealer trying to cash in on people who didn't comply. The FCC also doesn't and hasn't for a long time allowed co-users to or others as a means of proving or disproving a user operating on a channel. Such as when you try to take over a channel that some user either was on or is still on. It almost takes an act of Congress to get that done, plus now all a use has to do is transmit once a year to keep their license. I know I have tried to get numerous Power frequencies in my area that are paper licensed and not being used.
The way to do it is get licensed for that channel, and then file an interference complaint.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by RADIOMAN2002 »

Correct, not drive around looking for illegal users and request that channel. For P.S. licenses, it's very unlikely you will get the channel in the first place, APCO in particular will call the licensee to see what's up first. Most times even with a complaint if it is P.S. they just tell them to straighten it out. Unless the license is over a year expired, and then they still will not act until the they receive a response. Again seen it many times when trying to get additional frequencies.
Example: I was trying to get a clear frequency with a FB8 on it. The license said World Trade Center for transmitter location. Now most people know that it doesn't exist anymore after the attacks, but the co-ordinator and the FCC would NOT release the channel even after a complaint.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by wkr518 »

Had a customer yesterday inform me that making sure they modify their FCC license and meet all requirements was my responsibility as a radio vendor.I would have partially agreed if I did not know they scoure Ebay for used radios and buy batteries from Hong Kong online sellers.
I made a point with them that I do not renew or update their NYS Drivers License and am not required legally to maintain that license or an FCC license for them.
After a few underlying snide remarks I jumped onto the customers PC, called my office for the FRN and password for the license and modified the emissions for them within 15 minutes. I also left them some contact infos for radio brokers who I knew likely had some decent 12.5 capable radios on hand most times as I told them I do not have anything used anymore and I have been trying since September 2009 to work with them to be ready for this.

2/22/2012 Urgent Comm article: Problems with narrowbanding
http://tinyurl.com/6u67lk8
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by MassFD »

First they have us narrow band then they pass the D Block package that has us giving back the 470-512 band in 9 to 11 years. That would hurt a lot of users around here
Cause Motorola said so that's why
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by escomm »

MassFD wrote:First they have us narrow band then they pass the D Block package that has us giving back the 470-512 band in 9 to 11 years. That would hurt a lot of users around here
I wonder what happens to the industrial/business pool incumbents that do not get a free handout of spectrum and a network (maintained by a TELCO no less? PUH-leeze) in exchange for their extremely valuable UHF spectrum
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by escomm »

Well, so much for the FCC sticking to its guns.

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Release ... -246A1.pdf
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by AL7OC »

So much for blowing bucks and jumping through hoops to be compliant!
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by xmo »

I think the important thing to note here is this statement:

"Specifically, we recommend that licensees seeking waivers ensure that their submissions include,
or are amended to include, a definitive list of the frequencies for which they are seeking a waiver, a list of
frequencies that will be relinquished (if applicable, e.g., if the licensee intends to migrate to the 700 MHz
or 800 MHz band and relinquish VHF/UHF spectrum), and representations from all licensees covered by
the waiver request that they have committed to take any actions that form the basis for the waiver
justification.


Thst appears to say that they will consider granting waivers if frequencies are being relinquished or a project is committed that will result in compliance but will run past the January 1 date.

It does not say they will grant waivers for reasons like: "we don't have the money" or "we don't think its necessary"
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by escomm »

Agreed. However, the release from the FCC is worded in such a way that that seems open to interpretation. "If applicable," kind of like "should" versus "shall."
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by SteveC0625 »

xmo wrote:Thst appears to say that they will consider granting waivers if frequencies are being relinquished or a project is committed that will result in compliance but will run past the January 1 date.

It does not say they will grant waivers for reasons like: "we don't have the money" or "we don't think its necessary"
Agreed! I think they're trying to say that if a large agency or a county is implementing a new system and just won't have it done by the end of the year, they'll consider a waiver.

It's pretty clear that small businesses, local fire and EMS agencies, etc. that have ignored the mandate until now won't get waivers. I've heard some seriously lame excuses from a number of folks about why they haven't even started to get going on this.

Fact: FCC is granting simple 11K mods to existing licenses in less than 12 hours. That includes print and mail time. Pretty much defeats any arguments about long lead times to get your license modified for NB.

Fact: Manufacturers seem to be able to ship radios pretty quick. I gave our salesman an order for 16 CP200's on Feb. 16th. They are already here and ready to be programmed and issued. I am pretty certain that all the manufacturers are ready to perform just as well. For the moment, long lead times for product don't seem to be a issue either. The last quarter of the year might be different.

Technician time might become an issue. I am hearing a lot of complaining that agencies can't get the techs to their sites to install new station infrastructure. They seem to already have a backlog of work waiting to be done. Might be a choke point later on this year.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by KitN1MCC »

As soon as i get back from miami my poll is going up for my small single site TRBO system in middletown CT i hope to have all 4 of my Clients on there by then or at least just Mobile with 12.5 the FCC papper work it the easy part
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by wkr518 »

I keep a running database of when and who I contacted at businesses and agencies that NEED to modify licenses and upgrade equipment, dating from 2009.
Times and dates I called,fax or email, even customer visits.I will have proof and cover my butt when the deadline rolls around and nobody can say " First I heard of this, why didn't you notify me of these changes?!"
I go so far as sometimes to even provide FRNs and callsigns and the instructions PDF.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Bill_G »

Anyone here done system-wide narrowbanding yet? We've done two, are in the middle of one, and have a few coming up. So far they have gone flawlessly. The worst the customers have experienced is crappy rx audio when a NB user listens to a WB user with good mic technique during the transition as we progress through all the mobiles.

Some models of radios deal with it better than others. NB MTR's with WB input can be harsh but usable. NB Quantars on the other hand seem to breeze right along with hardly a distortion. NB Mot products and Kenwoods as a whole get an edge in their rx audio - usable, sometimes harsh, mostly readable. But Icoms don't deal with it well at all squelch clamping on voice peaks chopping up rx audio so it is unintelligible. As a result, my first task during implementation is to turn dispatch and control point dev down. I leave the stations in WB mode. I just turn their dev down to under 3k so they always sound good in the field, and because their rcvr is still WB, they can hear all users well. My last task is to NB the repeaters, base stations, and control points aligning for proper dev.

One problem we keep running in to is the myth of range loss. So far, when we are done, there have been no reports of range loss. The systems sound as good, or as bad, as they did before we started. One of these customers had been under our maintenance for years, and the overall condition was well known. One had been a competitors customer that didn't have the manpower to throw at it. I know the guy. We worked together to resolve "maintenance issues" like high vswr and dead mics when we came across them during reprogramming. The customer we are working on now is largely self maintained which really means no maintenance at all. When we factor out the normal issues, there has been no perceptible loss in range.

One of the upcoming customers has a lot of equipment. They hired a consultant, and that guy has put the fear of God into them producing coverage maps proving they will have wide area coverage failures after narrowbanding. I've worked with the guy before. He is a dues paying member of the pocket protector league with his pointy head merit badge and rf engineering honorarium. Frankly, I wanted to walk away from the deal when he pressured them to require a guarantee of service. I cannot guarantee that. I can guarantee the competence of our crew. I can guarantee they will program each radio correctly. I can guarantee we will find bad radios, bad power cords, and broken antennas. But, I cannot guarantee coverage on a system I am not familiar with. The best I can do is assure them we will work with them to resolve issues as they arise.

So, what is your experience with narrowbanding? Is there any credence to the myth? Were your customers depending on this so called 3db difference to function properly? What did you do to fix it?
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by KitN1MCC »

how do they figure a loss in coverage area
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Bill_G
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Bill_G »

The FCC states users should expect 3db loss in coverage.
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by KitN1MCC »

i wonder if that's just the fcc covering there own behinds
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Pj »

In the above examples above, with a few PD's and FD's that I delt with, narrowbanding came up years ago (I remember mentioning it to them back in 00/01?) and most were on board, or intergrated it into newer simple conventional systems (think spectra's, sabers, MT1000's CC2's to ASTRO line stuff). What I delt with back in the day was still budgets.

The departments were on board, but the town was not. Motorola (when the actual sales guy not the MSS) came in, he gave us various numbers and didn't BS us with options we didn't need (one of the last of the few old school good guys). He told us what the expected price increase would be over 0-3 years. Of course, the towns didn't want to pay the whole cost up front, so two of them spread it out over three years. Due to that, now there were ASTRO Spectras, XTL5000's and now some APX's in service across the fleet so just swapping out equipment isn't a simple process anymore. In addition, the towns spent MORE money due to increases that they were told about.

I think the big push in the trade publicications are a little late. Yeah, its a year away but budgets are already done for the fiscal year. Had the industry/trade mages/Police Magaizne, Chief etc really got the word out in force like it is now, I don't think we would see how widespread the issue has the potentional to be.

Then, there are departments litterally in the middle of nowhere who could care less and won't be an issue for anyone anytime soon. Those I think will be the major source of non-rebanded anything vs major cities. No one in Kimbal County Nebraska with a population of 3100 in 950sq miles is going to really notice.
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com501
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by com501 »

Went we went from 15kc to 5kc it was all about budgets, too.

Those damn new radios were expensive!
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by KE7JFF »

In my state for SAR operations, the community itself decided to go narrow on the user side of things earlier than the cutoff date to iron out the small issues so it will be interesting to see how that works out on some days when we get deployed. Thankfully, most of the radios issued to people in the field are from a radio cache which already is narrowband ready....we just have to deal with the hopefully small group of people who have their own radios and make sure they are not vintage HT220s or something.
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KitN1MCC
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by KitN1MCC »

i wonder how many are gonna modify but never do the technical changes
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Bill_G »

Well, ya know, if you turn the dev and comp pots fully counter clockwise on a Maxtrac, it just happens to land at 2khz voice with 500hz of PL. What a coinkydink.
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FCC Narrowband Mandate Goes Into Effect 01-01-13--Are You Re

Post by Jim1348 »

It getting closer. Has anybody had any panicky calls yet?
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by Tom in D.C. »

Spiffy50 wrote:Looking from a realistic perspective, if a service (just for example, take the NYPD) were to apply for a time extention and be denied, and were to continue using their wide-band gear past the date just what could the FCC do? I realize they can impose financial sanctions, but what authority does the FCC have to collect? That is, what if NYPD simply said "Yes we got your notice of infraction, but we still aren't switching nor paying"? I could see a lot of public safety agencies taking that stand.
The NYPD does not have to go narrowband because they're on T-band and the FCC has exempted T-band licensees from narrowbanding.
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Re: FCC Narrowband Mandate Goes Into Effect 01-01-13--Are Yo

Post by wkr518 »

Jim1348 wrote:It getting closer. Has anybody had any panicky calls yet?
Maybe 5 a week now.Installer/Service guys are jumping through hoops reprogramming here.
nothing
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by FireCpt809 »

I know Im going to be swamped the next month... Then again I know of about 5-6 of my departments that have old Maxtracs, spectras and GM300's that dont plan on replacing the radios til the cars go out for changeover... Sometime next year...I finally got a department to dump their Syntor X's but they were UHF Tband and now dont need to be narrowbanded...
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Re: FCC Narrowband Mandate Goes Into Effect 01-01-13--Are Yo

Post by wkr518 »

Jim1348 wrote:It getting closer. Has anybody had any panicky calls yet?
I sent about 12 Panicky faxes to licensees who had not yet modified their VHF and UHF licenses yet a few counties over from me. Out of 58 IG/PW licenses in that county about a quarter of them had not modified yet.And some of them are 200watt VHF and 150-200 watt UHF repeaters/amplifiers.
Gonna be some good new spectrum pickings for me come Jan/Feb 2013 if they get cancelled.
nothing
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Re: What Is Your Prediction For The Post Narrow-Banding Time

Post by kb4mdz »

And how do they plan on paying for those cars being swapped out if the FCC comes and audits them for presence of non-NB equipment, and concludes by it that they've been operating WB, and starts writing NAL's?? And I wouldn't bet a nickel that the FCC wouldn't stand around and WATCH them operating WB, before writing those NAL's.

This has been coming for over 10 years. What's their problem with doing a little planning?


FireCpt809 wrote:I know Im going to be swamped the next month... Then again I know of about 5-6 of my departments that have old Maxtracs, spectras and GM300's that dont plan on replacing the radios til the cars go out for changeover... Sometime next year...I finally got a department to dump their Syntor X's but they were UHF Tband and now dont need to be narrowbanded...
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