Micom-2TS feedback/guidance

[kb6nzv]

I thought it was finally time to consult the M experts again, this time concerning the Micom-2TS HF radio.
Can anybody offer advice on finding sources for basics like the control head and power cabling?
From my research here and elsewhere, I see some have observed similarities with the control head for the MCS2000, although I'm sure the firmware would be problematic. I've found that Mancow has done some interesting work with building control head replacements using custom Arduino hardware hackery.
I can handle following the hackery route if no reasonable alternatives exist, but thought I'd ask the experts their thoughts on this matter.

[jhooten]

Replacement control heads are available direct from Mobat for $800.

[kb6nzv]

Thanks for the quick reply! That price falls outside my budget limits.
I currently fall into the more-time-than-money category, so it's looking more like hardware hackery will be the way I address that need.
Asking in general terms, how many Motorola radio families have used serial interfacing for control?

[jhooten]

Once I found the price for the head the cheap units on ebay were not so appealing.

[maxkelley_kc2spy]

Asking in general terms, how many Motorola radio families have used serial interfacing for control?

More than you would think! HT1000s use SB9600 along with the rest of the Jedi series, Waris series, ASTRO and ASTRO 25... As well as the original Sabers and Spectras. I believe the first radio to use SB9600 was the Syntor X9000? Don't hold me to that, though...

I don't think you'll find it in lower series radios like CP200, etc, but in most of the higher-tier stuff, it's there.

[escomm]

Makes one wonder... when does SB9600 come off patent??

[maxkelley_kc2spy]

Makes one wonder... when does SB9600 come off patent??

Well, patent 5,551,068 (date Aug 27 1996) is "METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR COMMUNICATION VARIABLE LENGTH MESSAGES BETWEEN REGISTER MODELED RADIO DEVICES", which I believe is at least one of the patents for SB9600. So, there's a clue.

[kb6nzv]

Thanks Guys, for sharing what you can about the history and technology used by M. Do you happen to know if the 3-pin power cable used with Mobat/Micor radios is used with other radio families? It would be good to know if hunting those down will be difficult or easy.

[maxkelley_kc2spy]

The power cables seem to be available on eBay, albeit not for cheap...

[btrains]

I have found that the Control Head cable is the exact same model used for remote mounting the MCS2000. The control head itself would be a different story.

[firemedic]

The power connector and pins are here. It's a 3W3 Connector and you need the 40A contacts.

Connector Part #
152-FM3W3S
Contact Part #
152-FMP007S103 - 40A pin

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogUSD/642/1312.pdf

Can be made cheaper then the ebay cables. I made one for a friend a while back.

[mancow]

So, what is the consensus on this? If exploring the data is somehow unlawful then I will just cease any public discussion and just keep my project to myself. I don't need any heat from anyone or any company or whatever. It's just a fun project that is the only thing I've found that has generated enough motivation in me to try to learn software design and micro-controller integration. Also, I'm not going to shell out a grand for what is basically an MCS control head and I doubt anyone else is either so I doubt anyone is losing anything in the mix. If anything it will generate interest in the product and the company but that aspect always seems to be overlooked for some reason.

It's sad it's potentially unlawful to do anything beyond turning on SportsCenter and gaining weight these days. I guess they gotta keep the masses ignorant.




But, if anyone else is interested in exploring it all you need is a free serial port monitor to watch the rear port while manipulating the controls.

I will return to lurk mode and hopefully soon will have a phat ass multi colored custom control head for my vehicle and the front of my micom soon. At the very least I can now ADJUST THE VOLUME since they didn't code that into the software for the PC.


If this is the way of the world you would think the Howardforums servers would have been napalmed by now.

[kb6nzv]

Sorry Mancow if I caused you any grief. I think what you're doing is extremely clever and wish you only the best.
I believe as long as you don't "go commercial" you have nothing to worry about.
Somebody outbid me in a big way, so I'm back to the waiting game.
Who knows, with any luck maybe I stumble on one I can afford at Seaside! )
Vy73, Phil KB6NZV

[mancow]

No worries. I wasn't calling you anyone out at all. It came across that way out of my general frustration at the wall that seems to be put up by our "system" to any sort of exploration and learning. Your points are valid to contemplate. I was of the impression that reversing something to interface a totally unique item was ok. But, it seems these days it seems anything beyond a sedative and a stroll through Wal-Mart is considered suspicious to the powers that be now that the Gov and large corporations are fully integrated as one seamless unit.

I'm glad you brought it up. I hadn't really thought about it in this way (although I never intended on selling anything). I think it will likely be best that I just keep it to myself.

[escomm]

Go ahead and explore. I don't think there are any problems with reverse engineering for your own exploration and personal use. Commercialization would be a different story.

[loband]

The way I see it....if you can pick up a working low cost black box the a $700 head is a deal. The 3T is now over $6000.
The problem is it will take about 18 weeks to get the head. RSS is about $550 All can be bought from Royal Comm.

[ASTROMODAT]

The plastic CH for the Icom 7000 HF mobile transceiver is $500, so I'm not that surprised about the Elbit price, especially given that the 3T CH is all metal, etc. vs/ cheapie plastic on the Icom ham head. I have tried using the Micom software to control my 3F and 3T, and it is quite sluggish to respond to click commands on the connected PC. Using the Elbit CH, the radios respond as fast as you mash down the keys. Something causes a big sluggish aspect while under control via the RSS remote head software running on a connected PC, so I'd opt for the real McCoy. I have seen near new 3T heads on the bay for $400. Not very often, but if you are patient, they are out there, from time to time.

[mancow]

I am able to drive an old 25 pin model with a 100ms command loop that tunes it at 10 steps a second. The audio is of course very "poppy" and unusable but it gets you where you want to go fairly quickly. Anything faster seems to overrun the buffer or something and cause it to reset. That's just with a blast of serial comms and no handshaking or display readback etc...

I have a RGB backlit 20x4 LCD on order which will provide any color back lighting in a negative fashion for sort of a more subdued professional type look. I am trying to figure out what to put all the the stuff in. I was thinking of using a gutted X9000 head. It would be perfect due to all the extra button spaces. The soft keys could be written to the LCD top line and everything shifted down so the F1-F4 keys are at the top. The problem is all the 20x4 LCDs I find are just a bit to tall to fit in the window. It might work if the LCD was recessed a bit behind the window since the viewable area matches the opening perfectly, height wise.

The next thought is to somehow make a front plate that goes on the flat front panel for a single piece table top model. I might cut out the metal and replace it with a custom aluminum panel with membrane keypad buttons and custom printed labeling made with adhesive vinyl printable sheets and satin clear coating I have left over from another project.

I agree that for the price of these things a factory head is still worth the investment all day long. For me it's about the challenge of whether or not I can teach myself how to do it and I'm about 60% there I would say. I've learned more about software and delved deeper into serial communications in the last two weeks than I have ever before. It's really addictive, especially once you get that first "ahaaa" moment and then you just want to keep going to see what else you can figure out.

[kb6nzv]

I'll keep my eyes peeled for any sources of control heads for those radios and eventually, some day, they'll turn up at a reasonable cost.
I did manage to land one of the headless radios, expected to arrive some time next week, so I'm a very happy camper!
I appreciate all the helpful feedback and insight. This is also an opportunity for me do try some arduino hackery which I'm sure I'll enjoy.
Back in the 80's I received extensive training on using HP protocol analyzers which could serve me well.

[mancow]

I have the Arduino 20x4 LCD displaying the frequency in the appropriate spot and line after some help from some Arduino gurus but need to refine the way the device is processing the data quite a bit more. I need to refine the serial handshaking and acknowledgement as well since the radio wants to see a proper ACK or will either repeat its traffic multiple time or just stop and give up. I know exactly what needs to be done. Figuring out how to translate that to C is the issue.

There is far more than enough power and capability in the Arduino to handle this and more. The possibilities for customization are limitless. You could easily define custom buttons to access functions outside of the hassle of the radio's menus system or setup one touch memory buttons, or custom display layouts, custom LCD backlight colors or even color displays with touch controls etc...

If you have a protocol analyzer one thing that would help a great deal would be to map out what is going on with the RS422 data line from the front of the radio to the control head. I can talk to the radio fine over the input line using an RS485 adapter but I can't receive any data out. I can talk both directions just fine over regular RS232 on the rear port.

[JMINN]

Congratulations! I have been following you posts with great interest, as I have a headless Micom 2 that I can not communicate with through the RS232 rear port.

Joe
KC5DPV

[W1HVN]

Got two confirmed tested and working "C" revision units recently and have 44 pin connectors and power connectors finally to build cables for them.

For those using the units with computer control programs "headless" what are your suggestions for mic and speaker for it?

Interestingly, the audio input is a balanced 600ohm line, + , - , and ground. The line level audio is the same 600ohm deal. Can't use speaker level audio as there is no way to control volume.

I thought of taking advantage of a tone or dc remote handset, seeing they are 600 ohm balanced as well. The tone set would wire in a 4 wire config straight into the audio ofnthe 44 pin connector, however would require a term panel to be put in parallel with the tx audio lines, to decode a 1950 and pull ptt to ground. This brings about an issue of the 1950 hold tone which would come under they'd audio, however if set to -20db and the voice audio to over 0db, it might be hardly noticeable. Other alternative is of course a notch down line of the handset but upstream of the term panel, or use a DC configuration same design as above, no tones.

I'd like to just do a conventional mic and speaker to start however, for simplicity. Suggestions?

I found two microphones offered commercially that may work well...

http://www.fullcompass.com/product_imag ... eid=101614

Or

http://www.toaelectronics.com/spec_sheets/pm-660u.pdf

The latter has a ptt circuit.

I also found that most sound card mic inputs on computers are set to 600 ohm, this strait into the computer sound card...

Ideas, thoughts, etc...

Btw I also have two ore untested units on the way. If I test them soon and they are good, let me k ow if there is interest in one...

As you were....

[mancow]

You will need a way to set the volume digitally by feeding it the appropriate hex arrays. The radio defaults to the lowest setting on powerup.

The easiest way would be an arduino nano which is the size of a large postage stamp and a volume pot. You could connect it to your audio connection setup, whatever that may end up being and have a regular volume knob to twist. They are around $30-$40 on ebay and I can send you some code to load it up.

[W1HVN]

That's pretty interesting. PM me. I have questions...lol...

[maxkelley_kc2spy]

The tone set would wire in a 4 wire config straight into the audio ofnthe 44 pin connector, however would require a term panel to be put in parallel with the tx audio lines, to decode a 1950 and pull ptt to ground. This brings about an issue of the 1950 hold tone which would come under they'd audio, however if set to -20db and the voice audio to over 0db, it might be hardly noticeable.

Shouldn't the tone termination panel have the notch for the hold tone already in it? You shouldn't be getting a constant 1950 out of your tone term panel's output...

[kb6nzv]

Mancow: Do you suppose in some cases that using an Arduino as the middle-man translating head-codes from an MCS2000 head might make life easier?
Thanks to everyone for additional details on connectors as you're answering questions I forgot to ask. Is there a source for the 44-pin connectors?
I'm more familiar with radios from K and through this project learning more about M and their approach to the rubber meeting the road.

[mancow]

I'm not sure. I haven't explored that. I think the MCS is missing a button which would be the MORE key but would have to look at a pic of one again.

My big problem to this point is reading the data from the front where the control head connects. I can send data in but nothing seems to come back out. I heard it might operate at a higher bit rate but all the documentation says it's 9600 and that's what I'm using to talk into it on the front. I guess I need to intercept it while a head is attached and try to figure it out that way maybe.

[maxkelley_kc2spy]

I think it could definitely be done (translating from Micom serial to SB9600 for the MCS)... I would almost prefer to use a MCS model II head because it has the rotary knob, which would be better suited to most non-channelized HF, obviously... Button assignments may not be 1-to-1, but you could figure something out! Perhaps implement a softkey menuing system within the arduino to virtually access more buttons on the Micom? Kind of like the Icom IC-706 does. It has pages of menus.

Then again, does the micom do this already? I don't have one, so I can't say...

[jnglmassiv]

Is there a source for the 44-pin connectors?

The DB44 connectors are readily available from Mouser, Digikey, etc.

[mancow]

It has softkeys similar to how an XTS operates or XTL or whatever but you still have the full 12 keys then the menu, Pesc, Enter and MORE keys that are stand alone. I don't know how you would easily get around that and make it user friendly in any way with a two level button operation setup.

I think it could definitely be done (translating from Micom serial to SB9600 for the MCS)... I would almost prefer to use a MCS model II head because it has the rotary knob, which would be better suited to most non-channelized HF, obviously... Button assignments may not be 1-to-1, but you could figure something out! Perhaps implement a softkey menuing system within the arduino to virtually access more buttons on the Micom? Kind of like the Icom IC-706 does. It has pages of menus.

Then again, does the micom do this already? I don't have one, so I can't say...

[kb6nzv]

jnglmassiv: Thanks for the pointer! Now I know where to dig for that connector.

[Jim202]

jnglmassiv: Thanks for the pointer! Now I know where to dig for that connector.

The info that I have for the 44 pin connector is:

4 is RA audio high

5 is RX audio low

6 is TX audio high

7 is TX audio low

8 is PTT

18 is ground



I would put a series cap, like 1.0 uf in series with the RX audio high and it probably wouldn't hurt to do the same on the TX audio high depending on what you use for the mic audio source. There is a DC bias on both of these lines if I remember correctly.

Jim

[JMINN]

If it would help I have the schematics for both the Mcs control heads and the Micom 2 control head.

Joe
KC5DPV

[maxkelley_kc2spy]

If it would help I have the schematics for both the Mcs control heads and the Micom 2 control head.

Joe
KC5DPV

Well, you couldn't just wire the MCS control head directly to the Micom... You would need to have a microcontroller inbetween that is programmed to "translate" the Micom serial commands into a language the MCS head could understand, and the MCS commands into the commands the Micom would understand. It's not just a wiring thing, unfortunately, but rather a protocol thing. (thing??? really, Max?)

EDIT: Oops, I read that wrong, sorry JMINN. I read it as "It would help if you had those schematics", not "If it would help..." Sorry