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Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

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sjxts3000
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Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:51 pm

I picked up one of the CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" batteries for my Astro Saber. Charged up nice...but after a few times of keying it up and talking, the entire battery just stopped. Dead. Turned off/on the radio...nothing...no Self Test. Removed/re-attached the battery. Nothing.

Here's where it gets interesting. I stuck it in the charger (red light) for about 10 seconds. Then removed it.... radio powered on. Sat for an hour scanning. Keyed it up a few times to talk and then whammo...battery cuts out again. Seem the only thing that will get the batter working again is to stick it in a charger even for just a few seconds. Its as if the battery "de-initializes" or something. Scratching my head.

So I returned the batter and got the Ni-MH 1950mAh cut-rate battery (same vendor). That battery has NO problems. (except for the fact that I hate the fact that it's twice the height at the shorty battery. The reason I got the Li-Ion battery was due to its short size and roughly the same mAh rating as the Ni-MH unit.

Anyone have a similar issue? Or was that just a defective "cut-rate" battery (pun intended).

BTW, radio is an Astro Saber II UHF with the following specs:
AP: R03.20.01
DSP: I05.00.18

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Tom in D.C.
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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby Tom in D.C. » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:19 am

You got a bad battery, that's all. I have and use six of the short lithium-ion units from Cut-Rate
and have had no problems with them ever.
Tom in D.C.
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that children may not be sent by parcel post.

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:35 am

Great! Now if only I get those batteries for cheaper than $76 from CutRate directly. Seems pricey for a 1900mAh batter for an older radio.
Anyone know of a better source? (PowerProduct isn't any cheaper...they want $100+ for theirs!)

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N4KVE » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:47 am

I use a Honeywell short Lith ion battery, # H8818-LI, & it works great, & fits perfectly. I don't know what it cost, as it came with a used radio I purchased, but I've had it for 3 years, & it still works as new. GARY

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:13 am

N4KVE wrote:I use a Honeywell short Lith ion battery, # H8818-LI, & it works great, & fits perfectly. I don't know what it cost, as it came with a used radio I purchased, but I've had it for 3 years, & it still works as new. GARY

Thanks...consider yourself lucky then...all I could find on that battery is $125!

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby Tom in D.C. » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:03 am

I can't prove it, but it sure looks to me as if that Cut-Rate shorty is the same exact battery that
Motorola sells as their 8818 shorty for a lot more money. The additional good thing about the
C-R shorty is that it has the side bump out like a Saber battery needs to properly sit in the charger.
Tom in D.C.
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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:07 am

Tom in D.C. wrote:I can't prove it, but it sure looks to me as if that Cut-Rate shorty is the same exact battery that
Motorola sells as their 8818 shorty for a lot more money. The additional good thing about the
C-R shorty is that it has the side bump out like a Saber battery needs to properly sit in the charger.


I think you're right. Another gripe of mine about most non-OEM Saber batteries is that the bottoms are not perfectly flat. And as a result, the (tall) radio wobbles when placed upright on a flat surface and often falls down. Crash!

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:18 pm

I ordered one of these to try it out. Although it's narrower than a normal Saber battery, I have the adapter for my charger that lets it sit snugly in the charger. Although this batter isn't as short at the CutRate "shorty", it's still shorter than a standard size Saber battery. Also, it's 2600mAH as opposed to 1900mAH for the shorty.

http://artisanpower.com/good_111.aspx

I'll report back with any issues.

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Tom in D.C.
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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby Tom in D.C. » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:54 pm

I have one of those 2600 mAh units from C-R too, but I haven't done any operating with it. Question I have is why does a 2600 mAh
lithium-ion battery cost so much less than a 1900 mAh shorty? Can it mean that the lower-capacity cells are higher quality than the higher-capacity cells? Something to think about.
Tom in D.C.
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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:03 pm

Tom in D.C. wrote:I have one of those 2600 mAh units from C-R too, but I haven't done any operating with it. Question I have is why does a 2600 mAh
lithium-ion battery cost so much less than a 1900 mAh shorty? Can it mean that the lower-capacity cells are higher quality than the higher-capacity cells? Something to think about.


Thanks for the reply, Tom.
Ya, I noticed that too..pricing issues. I can only assume that Li-Ion batteries are more (even if less capacity). What it comes down to is reliability.
My biggest gripe with the Astro Saber is that it's tall and even the "Standard" size battery makes the radio obnoxious to handle at times. I'm hoping this Artisan 2600mAh unit will be the Goldilocks scenario. Not too short (sacrificing capacity) and not too large (which sacrifices comfort when holding/handling the radio).

I can only imagine how the public safety must have felt when the XTS 3000's came out and had a standard size regardless of battery capacity. I can't imaging working a full shift on patrol with an Astro Saber (with standard or large capacity battery) on my hip. That would have been like wearing a 2-by-4 attached to your belt.

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N4KVE » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:42 pm

sjxts3000 wrote:

I can only imagine how the public safety must have felt when the XTS 3000's came out and had a standard size regardless of battery capacity. I can't imaging working a full shift on patrol with an Astro Saber (with standard or large capacity battery) on my hip. That would have been like wearing a 2-by-4 attached to your belt.
While I agree, the slim Astro Saber is a great "back pocket radio" for a detective to carry. Out of sight, & easy to get to. GARY

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:59 pm

N4KVE wrote:
sjxts3000 wrote:

I can only imagine how the public safety must have felt when the XTS 3000's came out and had a standard size regardless of battery capacity. I can't imaging working a full shift on patrol with an Astro Saber (with standard or large capacity battery) on my hip. That would have been like wearing a 2-by-4 attached to your belt.
While I agree, the slim Astro Saber is a great "back pocket radio" for a detective to carry. Out of sight, & easy to get to. GARY


Yep, I agree...the slim build of the Saber is very attractive for a HT which is why I am trying to find the balance of a smaller battery with a decent mAh capacity/rating. If the Artisan 2600mAh Li-Ion unit works out, it may very well be the happy medium. Same width as the radio (no battery flare to match the width of the top of the radio) and shorter than the "standard" size battery. of course, the second I find a "shortyy" battery with anything 2600 mAH or greater, I'm all over that. Wishful thinking for a dead product line.

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N9LLO » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:25 am

Both of mine do the same thing, when nearing the discharge limit they cut off. This is part of the internal charge controller circuitry. Do not "bump" them in the charger and use them until depleted or they may be put to sleep for good. See Battery University for some more info.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... _batteries

Chris
N9LLO

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:24 am

Well shoot. I just got an email back from the folks at Artisan Power and they say their RB-8818-L battery isn't available any more.

I'm still on the hunt for a decent mAH rating "short" (or shorter than standard size) battery for an Astro Saber. I don't supposed anyone has one they are willing to sell?

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:00 pm

Gonna try one of these:
http://www.gtspower.com/Products/Two-Wa ... s/H8818-LI

Anyone know if these are OK to charge in the NTN8831A Tri-Chem charger? Or does it need the impres charger?

Edit: Nevermind..they called me back...discontinued.

Jeez...these radios are not THAT old!

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N4KVE » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:14 pm

That's the battery I have, & I use a Tri Chem charger. Because the battery is narrower from left to right, a special adapter is required to keep the battery solidly in the charger. The adapter came with the charger. The battery fits very solidly to the radio. Just because GTS is out of that battery doesn't mean it's no longer available. GARY

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:18 pm

N4KVE wrote:That's the battery I have, & I use a Tri Chem charger. Because the battery is narrower from left to right, a special adapter is required to keep the battery solidly in the charger. The adapter came with the charger. The battery fits very solidly to the radio. Just because GTS is out of that battery doesn't mean it's no longer available. GARY


Yes, I have the adapter for the charger.

Do you know where I can get one of these batteries?

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N4KVE » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:43 pm

Sorry no. Mine came with a radio I purchased. GARY

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:40 pm

OK, my quest for a decent short battery still goes on. I've ordered one of these from batterytechstore.com

WWH-NTN4537A
NiMH 7.5v 1000mAh for Motorola Saber Astro

It's only 1000mAh, but worth a shot (as long as it lasts a good 6 to 8 hours with talking, then I'm OK). The web site says price if $54.95, but when I emailed them directly for any stock and a quote (before I had seen their web site), they gave me $37.00 at the price. Gotta love an instant $17.95 discount!

It's 2 3/8" tall and doesn't have the flare-out like all other Saber batteries (so it requires the adapter in the tri-chem charger (which I have).

If it works out, I'll get another. I'll let you know how it goes. Should arrive mid next week.

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:11 pm

OK, I finally got the W&W battery (WWH-NTN4537A). It's nice and short...not as short as the stubby Li-Ion batteries, but 2 3/8" tall and a good fit for the Astro Saber (it doesn't feel bulky large and obnoxious like the standard or especially the large capacity normal batteries do).

But there's a problem...when I drop this battery into my Motorola NTN8831A charger (with the narrow adapter), I get a flashing red "UNchargeable" indicator. I even tried it with a WPLN4114AR impres intelligent charger and also get a flashing red indicator there as well.

Something I'm missing here? Defective?

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby DPL » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:52 pm

sjxts3000 wrote:But there's a problem...when I drop this battery into my Motorola NTN8831A charger (with the narrow adapter), I get a flashing red "UNchargeable" indicator. I even tried it with a WPLN4114AR impres intelligent charger and also get a flashing red indicator there as well.

Something I'm missing here? Defective?


I have one of those WW batteries (actually two of them I think) and they do the same thing. I don't have a NTN8831A but I do have an impres charger and when I put one in there it just gives me the red blinky light treatment. I have one of the old, big, boxy saber chargers as well as a saber gang charger and they charge OK in both of those. I never have figured out why the newer chargers are picky about them. Might be worth asking W&W but they'll probably just tell you to buy one of their chargers (which might not be a bad idea).

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N4KVE » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:45 pm

sjxts3000 wrote:
Something I'm missing here? Defective?
If you guys had used the search function, you would read the numerous threads by members here who have had problems with the junk W&W sells. I myself had some bad STX batteries. They replaced them under warranty, but the replacements were just as bad. While the radio would receive for hours, it would give the low battery chirp right after coming out of the Motorola factory charger. Another user here had his W&W charger literally melt while charging a battery. Had he not been home, the results could have been disasterous. I wouldn't buy a W&W charger, & hope it would charge their battery. I would return the battery to W&W. Just enter W&W in the search box, & be prepared to spend hours reading about the trash they peddle. GARY

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:59 pm

N4KVE wrote:
sjxts3000 wrote:
Something I'm missing here? Defective?
If you guys had used the search function, you would read the numerous threads by members here who have had problems with the junk W&W sells. I myself had some bad STX batteries. They replaced them under warranty, but the replacements were just as bad. While the radio would receive for hours, it would give the low battery chirp right after coming out of the Motorola factory charger. Another user here had his W&W charger literally melt while charging a battery. Had he not been home, the results could have been disasterous. I wouldn't buy a W&W charger, & hope it would charge their battery. I would return the battery to W&W. Just enter W&W in the search box, & be prepared to spend hours reading about the trash they peddle. GARY


Ya, I'm trying contact them, but since they are on Long Island, their web site is not responding, nobody is answering the phone, and I sent them an email and am awaiting an RMA#

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N4KVE » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:48 pm

Hopefully all their inventory [junk] got washed out to sea in the storm. GARY

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby MikeOxlong » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:01 pm

sjxts3000 wrote:Something I'm missing here? Defective?


Nope, return it to them and get your money back.

Years ago I bought one at the Hamvention and it did exactly the same thing.

Returned it the next day and was told that NYPD has bought a lot of these batteries and they've never had a problem. They gave me another one to try and it did the same thing. Returned it and got my money back.

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby sjxts3000 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:07 pm

Thanks. I heard back and have an RMA to get a full refund.

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby VE3TUH » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:39 am

I have to agree here regarding W&W. We tried dealing with them for years. Good to deal with, and they always replaced their junk batteries. Problem is, they ALL were junk, you were lucky to get a year out of them. After several years of this we finally clued in and started buying batteries elsewhere. I'll take a used Motorola battery any day over a new W&W battery.

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Re: Issue with CutRate Li-Ion "shorty" Saber 1900mAh battery

Postby N4KVE » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:04 am

VE3TUH wrote: I'll take a used Motorola battery any day over a new W&W battery.
I agree with you on that 1000%. W&W = JUNK. GARY


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