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Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

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SteveC0625
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Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby SteveC0625 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:24 pm

If you haven't seen it already, here is a link to the cancellation notice from /\/\ for this series of radios:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3k529 ... sp=sharing

RFguy
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby RFguy » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:58 pm

Not unexpected with the release of the digital capable models.

I'm just wondering how soon until we see cancellation of the HT/CDM professional series radios. They've been out for 15-years now.

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mikegilbert
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby mikegilbert » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:29 pm

The film industry is gonna go crazy over the loss of the analog CP200.
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MTS2000des
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby MTS2000des » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:34 pm

mikegilbert wrote:The film industry is gonna go crazy over the loss of the analog CP200.


Yes, but they can always buy the CP-200D in analog only, and have pretty much the same radio, same accessories, same operation...just a slightly re-designed housing.
The views here are my own and do not represent those of anyone else or the company, the boss, his wife, his dog or distant relatives.

RFguy
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby RFguy » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:39 pm

mikegilbert wrote:The film industry is gonna go crazy over the loss of the analog CP200.


Why would that be?

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mikegilbert
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby mikegilbert » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:45 pm

The CP200 has been the radio of choice for Hollywood crews since they stopped buying P110s and P1125s.

The new digital-capable CP200s have the echo issue due to the DSP. Most film guys hate 'em.
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jackhackett
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby jackhackett » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:48 pm

I'm just wondering how soon until we see cancellation of the HT/CDM professional series radios. They've been out for 15-years now.


They've started cancellation of HT/CDM series, doing it piecemeal. I wouldn't be surprised if they're done within a year.

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MTS2000des
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby MTS2000des » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:27 pm

mikegilbert wrote:The CP200 has been the radio of choice for Hollywood crews since they stopped buying P110s and P1125s.

The new digital-capable CP200s have the echo issue due to the DSP. Most film guys hate 'em.


Never thought about that issue. I am sure the folks at Ma M didn't either.

I am sure that could be addressed in a future HOST/DSP update. Like adding QCII decoding, it may only take 4 years.
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby RadioSouth » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:53 am

I worked a detail on a few filmings years back, always VHF GP300's and lot's of them, everyone involved had one. I'm sure they weren't too happy when those became NLA either.

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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby tvsjr » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:00 am

MTS2000des wrote:
mikegilbert wrote:The CP200 has been the radio of choice for Hollywood crews since they stopped buying P110s and P1125s.

The new digital-capable CP200s have the echo issue due to the DSP. Most film guys hate 'em.


Never thought about that issue. I am sure the folks at Ma M didn't either.

I am sure that could be addressed in a future HOST/DSP update. Like adding QCII decoding, it may only take 4 years.


It's not entirely fix-able. There is time required for A/D, processing, and D/A in the DSP... you can't get around at least some level of delay.

MT2000 man
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby MT2000 man » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:43 pm

Yup, back in the late 90's mid 2000's, a LOT of film crews used GP300's, a few GP350s, and SOME SP50's.

GP300's were popular with race car / pit crews too.

Guess everything is going Digital now.

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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby 3-SAM-12 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:12 pm

MTS2000des wrote:
mikegilbert wrote:The film industry is gonna go crazy over the loss of the analog CP200.


Yes, but they can always buy the CP-200D in analog only, and have pretty much the same radio, same accessories, same operation...just a slightly re-designed housing.


Same chargers, antennas but all audio accessories are different. They need to sport a different logo.

Image

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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby RFguy » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:22 am

3-SAM-12 wrote:Same chargers, antennas but all audio accessories are different. They need to sport a different logo.


I understood that the accessories are not necessarily different, but the new logo indicates that they have been tested/certified for use with the new digital model.

So far the only accessory that we have had an issue with was an Otto headset the user was using in VOX mode. After 5-10 minutes, the radio would lock on TX.

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KC9MDQ
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby KC9MDQ » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:46 pm

Man, I was considering pulling the trigger on a PM400 a few months ago . . . . .guess I'll hold out for a CDM1550LS or an Astro Spectra W9.
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby RFguy » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:29 pm

mikegilbert wrote:The new digital-capable CP200s have the echo issue due to the DSP. Most film guys hate 'em.


I just tested a pair of CP200d's (in analog mode) side-by-side to a pair of CP200's and really didn't see any difference. I had similar audio quality and about the same frequency of audio feedback when in close proximity. This would indicate similar audio delay through the new CP200d's and the original CP200's in analog mode.

Under what circumstances does the "Echo issue" become noticeable?

Of course I didn't compare CP200d digital mode to CP200 analog radios as that would be like comparing apples to oranges (if I did, oranges would win hands down).

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escomm
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby escomm » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:46 pm

Looks like the UHF models are going to be discontinued prematurely... like immediately...


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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby mm2270 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:34 am

I bought a bunch of the new CP200D a few months ago, for use in the analog mode. I rented them out on a big commercial job and received terrible feedback from the production team..."echo, slow to start, and delay". I've also heard of other rental companies having to swap out 125 radios on a television show because the crew found the radios intolerable.

I've spoken to Motorola about the issues, along with other rental companies, and they gave us a list of programming adjustments to try. Seems like the adjustments helped a little bit, but i'm still hesitant to send out these radios to my good clients.

I was just wondering if anyone had any new information about these radios.

Thanks,
Marc

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arlojanis
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby arlojanis » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:08 am

I have had the same problems. Please post the new programming instructions.
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escomm
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby escomm » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:38 am

Pretty sure there won't be a complete fix for this as all audio is run through the DSP, even if analog, creating a very slight delay due to the processing. Has been happening with P25 radios since the Astro Saber..

Jason
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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby Jason » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:58 pm

When I added early XTS3000's to my analog JEDI fleet back in the day same issues. Backlash from users, "I want my old radio back", "sounds bad", "something wrong" etc.

Just something that comes with a DSP based radio. Not much you can do in the end. That ever so slight delay is going to be there.
Jason

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Re: Cancellation Notice: CP200 PR400 CM200 CM400 PM400

Postby mm2270 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:30 pm

Sorry for the delay in posting this:


Recommendations:
1) Enable the COMPANDING feature on all radios. This will provide a “richer” audio experience. For more detailed info, check out Wikipedia on COMPANDING. There is no down-side to enabling this feature however COMPANDING must be enabled (or disabled) on both Tx and Rx radios. Otherwise there will be a mismatch in audio levels and tonal content.
2) Enable Pre-Emphasis and De-Emphasis. This will provide a little more high frequency content in the transmitted audio. Wikipedia also has some good info on this. No down-sides to this feature either. Similar to COMPANDING, it must be enabled (or disabled) on both Tx and Rx radios.
3) Disable the Noise Suppressor to eliminate the audio “tail” which is characteristic of IS-127 Noise Suppressors. There is no noise suppressor on the CP200 radio so there will be no loss of functionality when CP200d and CP200 are compared side-by-side. The trade-off is that your users will not be able to take advantage of the advanced noise suppression technology found in the CP200d.
4) Adjust “Rated Volume” setting in MOTOTRBO Tuner to reduce the loudness of the CP200d if needed. This will align the acoustic feedback performance (Rx side) of the CP200d with the CP200. My measurements indicate that the CP200d is 1dB – 2dB louder than the CP200. This will lower the volume level on the CP200d to be equivalent to the CP200. The down-side is that the CP200d will not be as loud as possible.
5) Set Mic Gain Setting to -6dB. This will provided a very similar mic sensitivity level when compared to CP200.


Notes:
After running a series of Tx and Rx talk-listen tests, the following results were noted with radios configured as per recommendations:
1) CP200d and CP200 have similar microphone sensitivity levels (Tx).
2) CP200d and CP200 have similar Speaker Volume Levels (Rx).
3) CP200d and CP200 have similar acoustic feedback performance for Tx.
4) CP200d and CP200 have similar acoustic feedback performance for Rx when adjusted for volume levels.
5) CP200 has more high-frequency tonal content when compared to the CP200d. The following observations should be expected:
a. Users in an environment with low to moderate noise may prefer the CP200d due to the additional bass
b. Users in an environment with moderate to high noise may prefer the CP200 due to the additional high-frequency content which may cut through the ambient noise.

Open Issues:
1) Radio boot-up time for CP200d is too long. This is a known design constraint and is not likely to change in the foreseeable future.
2) PTT switch press is not uniform. Motorola will investigate options to improve the PTT activation.
3) PTT attack time (i.e latency) is too long. Motorola has identified changes that will significantly improve the PTT attack time. The changes will be available in a future software release. Motorola will provide an estimated time-frame for releasing these improvements.

Enhancements and Questions:
1) What does the “E” mean on the antennas for the CP200d? Motorola will investigate options to improve this design.
2) USB port cover is too difficult to open. Motorola will investigate options to improve this design.
3) Add more high-frequency content to audio for CP200d. Motorola will investigate options to increase high-freq content.
4) Add Noise Suppressor enable/disable to programmable buttons. Motorola will investigate adding this to CPS.
5) What RF band propagates through buildings better, UHF or VHF? Motorola will provide info on this.

Summary:
Motorola and CommLine are aligned with regards to the audio performance of the CP200d. The audio performance enhancements demonstrated on the CP200d will be available in an official release in the May 2004 timeframe. A timeline for addressing open issue #3 will be provided by May 1st.


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