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Communications.Support site?

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:36 am
by arlojanis
Is the communications.support web site down or is it my problem?

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:38 am
by KG4INW

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:18 am
by d119
Time to bring BatLabs back to the glory days... Slowly.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:30 pm
by com501
d119 wrote:Time to bring BatLabs back to the glory days... Slowly.


And with due regard for TLA's.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:50 pm
by d119
I think encryption discussion here on the site should be off the table. It's clearly a sensitive subject, and really one that is not pertinent to what most of us (myself included) are doing.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:14 pm
by sjxts3000
d119 wrote:I think encryption discussion here on the site should be off the table. It's clearly a sensitive subject, and really one that is not pertinent to what most of us (myself included) are doing.


If it's going to get site owner(s) here in trouble or this site shut down as a result, then I would agree. If people want to talk about encryption, let them start their own forums. There's a lot of good resources here (and there was on the CS site, too) and the majority of discussions were not encryption related ...and those valuable threads are now gone. Don't need that happening here, too.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:39 pm
by gatekeep
The other excellent thing about the CS site was the fact that; there was a separate section for other vendors.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:23 am
by Bill_G
d119 wrote:I think encryption discussion here on the site should be off the table. It's clearly a sensitive subject, and really one that is not pertinent to what most of us (myself included) are doing.


They did like chewing on that bone.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:21 am
by JeffFireRadio
Speaking as one who has been a local, state, and federal system manager, it's ironic that some of the customers I support/supported are the ones who ultimately ended that site. Disclaimer...I don't know the details of the events firsthand, but I have read everything on that site (and this one) pertaining to what happened. Argh! My point is that when it comes to LMR encryption, you don't learn it all by going to the entire suite of classes in Schaumburg. You learn it from colleagues, experience, reading, trial and error, etc. When you were stumped (or just taking in the knowledge that was passing through), you went there (CS) for answers. It was one of many major resources I used to get the job done. Now those who rely upon us to keep them safe via encryption (when appropriate, btw) get a lesser service from me (you) because we don't have that resource any longer. We all lose in the end. Just a thought. P.S. Thanks CS for the years of great assistance!!!

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:04 am
by d119
WRT other vendors, I think a lot of folks forget about www.radioinfoboard.com. That forum is run by the same crew that run this site, and caters to all the other vendors. The two sites put together would be very much like CS...

WRT to the ultimate demise of CS, we likely will never know exactly what happened. I'm sure there were negotiations, instructions not to discuss it, etc. Not to slam the party in question, keep in mind that what we do know, we know from a single, involved, biased (understandably) source.

I think that there is no reason that we cannot have in depth technical discussions about the products we enjoy. But when that discussion turns into reverse-engineering and dissemination of a company's trade secrets and revenue sources, there is a line that is crossed.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:19 pm
by spectragod
There was a line crossed, but it wasn't what was done as much as the end user that wound up with the final product. So I was told, your mileage may vary.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:30 pm
by KE7JFF
I admit, I had some issues with the story that was explained, only because I have some good friends "in the trade" who told me "that doesn't make sense" but that's a topic to have a cold beer in the bar.

I enjoyed the board-level technical discussions on discontinued products on CS; but I think what have crossed the line was that some ground-breaking research there was still used in current generation products which yeah, probably crossed the line. I never understood the obsessive topic of encryption there, seemed like to me at some points, there was a real reason they wanted it in product X beyond experimentation.

One thing I always thought it was kind of odd was that for the first part of the forum's operation, there was a hatred of RadioReference, then the owner of RR, Lindsay actually became a forum member and started a Q&A session to clarifiy some misconceptions, then the bashing stopped. Then after the site went down I think due to a software upgrade that failed where they reverted to a backup from 30 days prior, everyone was back to RR bashing.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:51 pm
by alex
I don't think we really need a discussion here about this. No one except those involved are likely to know the full unbiased story about what took place and the outcomes thereof. It's not for us to debate, discuss, and share conspiracy theories on. There are other outlets for that.

Let's move back to helping each other out.

I know this place has it's history but it is still here and ticking. Feel free to post or not post - the place is only as good as you make it.

I'll fully support adding some forums for other manufacturers if that's what people want as well. Start a discussion and we'll see where it takes us - but I don't think we need to hash out other peoples/forums issues here.

I'll leave the topic unlocked for now as long as we look to the future and not the past.

Alex

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:05 pm
by d119
We really need to get the software updated here. Whatever CS was running was a lot more flexible and user friendly than this... Anyone else agree?

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:06 pm
by KE7JFF
I think thats a smart idea...I would like to be able to use Tapatalk with this fourm...

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:07 pm
by d119
spectragod wrote:There was a line crossed, but it wasn't what was done as much as the end user that wound up with the final product. So I was told, your mileage may vary.


Yeah I heard the same thing... Interesting.

Anyhow, onward and upward!

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:10 am
by tuckerm
d119 wrote:We really need to get the software updated here. Whatever CS was running was a lot more flexible and user friendly than this... Anyone else agree?


vBulletin

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:46 am
by RadioRookie
Back in the day, my grandfather always told me there were three different types of the truth. One person's truth, the other person's truth and the real truth. The real truth is a mysterious little fella that doesn't like to expose himself to often. We will likely never know the real reason for the shutdown. Oh well, onward and upward. I see a lot of the same users HERE and in other forums that were on CS. That tells me that the knowledge is not limited to just that one site. Just don't cross the line.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:39 am
by jackhackett
KE7JFF wrote:I think thats a smart idea...I would like to be able to use Tapatalk with this fourm...


I believe they're running phpBB3 here, which Tapatalk is supposed to work with.

If I was setting up a new site I'd go with Drupal, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to migrate an existing site though.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:52 am
by turtle9832
d119 wrote:We really need to get the software updated here. Whatever CS was running was a lot more flexible and user friendly than this... Anyone else agree?


Yes. agreed

vbulletin

or xenforo

xenforo is pretty flexible

One final comment. EVERYONE here, or that comes here, should respect the ground rules and or warnings given.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:21 pm
by motorola_otaku
Friendly, non-entitled suggestions:

  • Do away with the "general discussion" part of this forum and migrate it to a "legacy products" only forum, and move it further down the list. If anything relevant to a current production product is posted here, move it to an appropriate forum. I always appreciated that the more "relevant" topics were at the top of the page on the other site.
  • Combine all of the TRBO forums into a single forum, possibly keeping the 3rd party apps and experimental forums separate. It's easier to read casually when you don't have to migrate through a bunch of hyper-specific forums.
  • Bring the Lounge back. It's been, what, 11 years?
  • Be more proactive about policing duplicate threads and RTFM questions. I appreciated that about the other site, but felt their moderation was often needlessly antagonistic and often belittling of certain groups (namely the mentally handicapped and LGBT folks.) I never felt that to be an issue here.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:58 am
by Bill_G
I promise no boring dissertations on RF stuff. (snort)

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:51 am
by d119
Bill_G wrote:I promise no boring dissertations on RF stuff. (snort)


That's just it - nobody ever said they were boring... So keep them coming... Or else...

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:28 am
by Bill_G
d119 wrote:
Bill_G wrote:I promise no boring dissertations on RF stuff. (snort)


That's just it - nobody ever said they were boring... So keep them coming... Or else...


I was chuckling at a comment on RR. As you know, I get very limited exposure to Motorola product. I'm the Everything Else guy in the company. That's been my mission since the mid 90's when we first identified that cellular was going to clobber our customer base, and that we, as a company, had to have a new direction, or go under.

My past experience as owner of a GE shop was leveraged with an emphasis on creating new opportunities with vendors other than MOT, and channels other than land mobile radio. However, it also means I often work alone on projects having to resolve every problem without help from my colleagues. I definitely appreciate the knowledge in places like CS, Batlabs, and company / product specific forums where I can bounce ideas off other people.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:19 am
by fail999
well said Bill !!
fail999

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:16 am
by motorola_otaku
Bill, I have always enjoyed your posts... here and on the other site. Your shop is damn lucky to have you.

Being the "everything else" person is not always a bad thing. It keeps your job interesting. If I was just an "infrastructure guy" or just a "subscriber guy" like some shops are structured I'd go crazy.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:18 am
by com501
NOT boring. Keep it up.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:21 pm
by Astro Spectra
+1 Bill

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:19 pm
by triptolemus
+1 Bill... that comment read like a compliment to me...

Hi everyone.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:40 am
by KE7JFF
Bill, as probably one of the few people on this forum who has actually met you, I can assure you, when you write your disssertations on why X is Y and not Z, its because you were there when the thing was invented...

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:30 am
by Bill_G
(chuckle) Thanks guys!
Happy New Year everyone!

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:53 pm
by RadioRookie
Sometimes it made my head hurt, Bill. But after re-reading and sometimes re-re-reading it, the pain went away and I actually understood what you were saying. LOL

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:21 am
by Bill_G
RadioRookie wrote:Sometimes it made my head hurt, Bill. But after re-reading and sometimes re-re-reading it, the pain went away and I actually understood what you were saying. LOL


Take my word for it - anyone that gets good at this biz has a flat spot on their head from hitting the wall a few times.

There are two old sayings -
The first is - Doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result, is a sign of insanity.
The second is - If at first you don't succeed, try try again.

Both apply.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:34 am
by W3AXL
I'll miss some of the absolutely fantastic threads on CS. It's very uplifting to see that many of the great contributors are over here and still willing to lend their knowledge. I always tried to lend some bits of new info when I found them to pay it forward, and I plan on doing the same here.

Keep up the good work everyone. Just because a site is down doesn't mean the information has to be lost for good!

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:30 am
by wavetar
motorola_otaku wrote:[*]Do away with the "general discussion" part of this forum and migrate it to a "legacy products" only forum, and move it further down the list. If anything relevant to a current production product is posted here, move it to an appropriate forum. I always appreciated that the more "relevant" topics were at the top of the page on the other site.


I like this idea.

motorola_otaku wrote:[*]Combine all of the TRBO forums into a single forum, possibly keeping the 3rd party apps and experimental forums separate. It's easier to read casually when you don't have to migrate through a bunch of hyper-specific forums.


We actually expanded it last year based on member feedback. With the plethora of new TRBO products, and corresponding issues (infrastructure vs subscriber), it seemed to make sense. I'm not opposed to change, though, again if it makes sense.

motorola_otaku wrote:[*]Bring the Lounge back. It's been, what, 11 years?
[*]Be more proactive about policing duplicate threads and RTFM questions. I appreciated that about the other site, but felt their moderation was often needlessly antagonistic and often belittling of certain groups (namely the mentally handicapped and LGBT folks.) I never felt that to be an issue here.


These somewhat tie together. We could use more moderators to keep things better 'policed' as you say, and kept up near real time, which would help as well with your first point. We can look into that, and anyone who feels they would like to help & contribute, let Alex & I know via PM.

The thing about the lounge, it required A LOT of unnecessary moderator/Admin time & energy, and even resulted in moderators/Admins & members being needlessly antagonistic and belittling towards one another, and NOT just in the lounge. I like the IDEA of a lounge, I do not like the REALITY of running a lounge. I really, really have no desire to go down that road again.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:07 pm
by d119
Ive messaged Alex a few times over the last couple of years offering to help moderate. Never heard back.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:53 pm
by wavetar
FYI, as an update, I have received a few offers for moderator assistance via PM. I will discuss next steps (if any) with Alex.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:56 pm
by Number 6
We're back...

Did you miss us?

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:57 pm
by N4KVE
Number 6 wrote:We're back...

Did you miss us?
Yes. Glad you are back. GARY.

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:08 am
by escomm
Number 6 wrote:We're back...

Did you miss us?

Thank

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:10 am
by JeffFireRadio
Another Festivus miracle! :)

Re: Communications.Support site?

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:43 pm
by gatekeep
Number 6 wrote:We're back...

Did you miss us?


There is a radio god...