Railroad Radio

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:21 pm

I picked this unit up and figured the power from the Spectra RR page. Does anyone have a clue if this could be moved to non-railroad channels?

Model: MBR33CUE1170DSP

Thanks for any info you may have on this puppy.

kc7gr · Post by **kc7gr** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:36 pm

w7com wrote:I picked this unit up and figured the power from the Spectra RR page. Does anyone have a clue if this could be moved to non-railroad channels?

Model: MBR33CUE1170DSP

Thanks for any info you may have on this puppy.

Hi, Joe,

Yes, they can handle 2m frequencies without a problem. What you have there is known as the Spectra 'Clean Cab' radio. It requires a specific RSS package (different from the normal Spectra) to program, though it does use the standard low-power programming cable.

By the way, could you drop me a PM, and let me know where the FRELL you're getting these? The railroad Spectras are pretty rare -- they usually only turn up when a railroad either junks a locomotive, or turns to a radio vendor other than Motorola.

73 de KC7GR

Post by Pj » Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:39 pm

Acutally that looks like the Clean Cab Micor (or something close) radio. The Spectra RR radio has a VF display like the spectra's, etc. I don't know if the power connectors are the same as the spectra line of RR radios.

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:18 pm

It's probably the Railroad MCX100 radio, they look very similar.

-Mike

KG6EAQ · Post by **KG6EAQ** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:53 am

It sure as hell isn't a clean cab Spectra, not enough buttons or big enough display. I'm leaning towards the RR MCX100 like ExKa|iBuR said. I don't recall the micor having any display on it, just a rotary channel knob.

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:41 am

The only MCX100 RR radios I've seen have a DTMF keypad where the speaker is on this one, but that could very well have been an add-on.

-Mike

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:41 am

I'll take some pictures of the guts and post them. About half the inards look to be the 72V to 12V converter. The internal plug for the speaker is the same as on a SyntorX. The radio to display/control/mic cable is a flat ribbon with about 70 wires to a SIP connector. The display is 7 segment amber LEDs. It's also built like brick house on the inside.

kc7gr · Post by **kc7gr** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:08 am

Silly me... I obviously screwed up on ID'ing the thing. Sorry, Joe (but I'd still like to know where you found the thing).

Ok... with that in mind, does someone have pictures of the various Motorola railroad models, so I can at least get them straight in my head from a visual perspective?

Thanks much, sorry for the whoops...

Radio99 · Post by **Radio99** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:07 am

You have a MCX100 Motorola railroad radio. Very hard to find the eprom programming equipment. See the following links:

http://images.batlabs.com/mobiles/mcx100rr.jpg

http://images.batlabs.com/mobiles/specrr.jpg

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:48 pm

if it is a mcx100 RR radio with all AAR channels init and you dont want to convert it let me know i have a loco to put it in

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:52 pm

Sure KitN1MCC, I saw it on ebay and just had to see what was inside. I'll post some pictures and then put it back together. PM me and we'll figure out a deal.

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:08 pm

Pictures at http://w7com.com/rr/.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:13 pm

I have that radio, well, one similar.

Mine doesn't have the DTMF Mic built-in though. As a matter of fact, the picture here in the batlabs gallery is that of my radio- and it is an MCX100. I've got the service manual for it as well.

That aside, it's EPROM programmed and much like the "regular" MCX100 you need an EPROM burner and once it's programmed, it can't be reprogrammed.

It'd be easier just to keep it what it is. I like mine a lot. I don't hear many squelch crashes on it- which is nice....almost like PL closing the squelch.

I've had it since 1999 and have no plans on retiring it (well, maybe when I can afford a Railroad Astro Spectra! LOL).

-Josh

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:38 pm

It sounds like it should be cleaned-up, tested, and put back into a train. Does your manual give any clues to what the RR codeplug is like?

KitN1MCC: Do you want it? I've got about $40 into it.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:41 pm

w7com wrote:It sounds like it should be cleaned-up, tested, and put back into a train. Does your manual give any clues to what the RR codeplug is like?

KitN1MCC: Do you want it? I've got about $40 into it.

Nope, no info on the "codeplug". There's no RSS for it! It's a 1983-85 radio, so there's not much to it.

I had an MCX100 at one point, but had someone else program it, so maybe an MCX100 EPROM programmer is someone who'd be able to help you.

-Josh

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:31 pm

If I understand correctly the term "codeplug" came from the radios (like the SyntorX) that had an actual plug-in (E)EPROM.

KG6EAQ · Post by **KG6EAQ** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:21 pm

Andy Brinkely might be able to program it as he does the normal MCX100's. I'm sure it's already on the AAR channels and if so you could probably get $50-70 from a true railfan for it to use as a dedicated monitor.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:17 pm

KG6EAQ wrote:Andy Brinkely might be able to program it as he does the normal MCX100's. I'm sure it's already on the AAR channels and if so you could probably get $50-70 from a true railfan for it to use as a dedicated monitor.

I actually used to have 2 of these type of radios- one was an older model (I think '83) and the other an '85- I kept the '85 model because it was better.

The tell-tale difference is when you turn it, the older model would display all 8's on the screen, and the newer one would show 0's instead. The audio also seemed cleaner on the newer model too.

I sold the older one for $50 I think, it didn't have the 70/12volt converter anymore. If you were looking to sell, first figure out if it's the newer model or not. I'm sure you could get even more granted the thing is likely 20 years old already.

I always liked the MCX100 radio. I don't know if they were all made-in-Canada or not though. Unfortunately, the enjoyability of newer, smaller, programmable radios caught my eye and that spelled the end (for the most part) of my MCX100 radio era

Personally, I'd just keep it on R.R. channels and listen away. It's more than likely not feasible to make in an amateur radio. But, like everything, if you think it can be done and have money to do it- go for it. People tried telling me against fixing up an old 8 channel scanning MT500 to put on railroad frequencies, but $500 later I have it and it's the best brick I've got. Of course, for the same price I could have had an HT1250 instead.

-Josh

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:09 am

If anyone has one of these RR radios for sale, PM me, I'd be quite interested.

-Mike

larryepage · Post by **larryepage** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:23 am

This is, in fact the railroad clean cab version of the MCX100. It appears to be in unusually nice shape for an MCX100. Because of the way they were designed and constructed, most that have been available show much more wear then this one appears to.

These are great radios for railroad use. There is a matching mounting tray that they slide into, just like the Spectras and the clean-cab Syntors. Output from the MCX100 is 35 watts (30 for a Canadian version).

Although a few suppliers still sometimes have the PROMs available (not EPROMs), it is really not feasible to move these to other than railroad applications. Signalling is limited to singletome and DTMF, with no PL capability. Operating bandwidth is only about 2 MHz, so performance would be very marginal even if you could reprogram to amateur frequencies. And...the specialized user interface would be very awkward. So...I second the suggestions provided above that the best application is to use it for monitoring railroad traffic. Because it is approaching 15-20 years old and has an unknown history, I'd be very uncomfortable putting it back into railroad service.

By the way, if you do want to use it as a receiver only, there is a programming trick you can do to disable the transmitter.

Regards,

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:37 pm

I put the radio on the bench and it doesn't look good. Lights on but no one is home. The display works and shows 20 tones and 01-97 on the channel displays. Hitting PTT doesn't transmit. Hitting the dispatch button sends about a 1 second DTMF tone (heard through the speaker) and lights the TX lamp but nothing on the watt meter. I can't get it to RX anything trying the standard AAR channels but it may be looking for a PL tone. I did try the MON switch but still nothing.

The PROG button seems to work and stores the current selection in one of the four presets.

If some one still wants this let me know. Maybe I'll list it on ebay as a Secret Black-Ops Motorola 97 Channel CB, as-is, no refunds

Otherwise it gets deposited on KC7GR's lawn late some night.

Mike in CT · Post by **Mike in CT** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:55 pm

Where did Motorola come up with the name "Clean Cab" ??

just curious!

Mike in CT

KM1R

UP to 14 degrees!

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:23 pm

Mike in CT wrote:Where did Motorola come up with the name "Clean Cab" ??

just curious!

Mike in CT

KM1R

UP to 14 degrees!

I don't know if Motorola coined it, but back before there were locomotive radio standards, radios had few channels and were basically all over the place- with the giant base hidden in the nose, or behind the control stand (maybe 4 channels max, crystal controlled), and the radio controls on top- like a remote head. Nothing was really standardized. Locomotives couldn't really roam other radios and have communication with the foreign line's dispatcher.

At one point someone (AAR?) came up with the clean-cab standard. All radios have all 97 AAR channels, TX and RX separately selectable, and all DTMF tones/ single-tone- for dispatcher paging. In the past, I recall hearing about engineers having to use a tuning fork in order to page dispatch towers...(that must have been the day).

At any rate, today's radios fit in the little opening in the control stand, or strapped on top. It's all standardized so any radio manufacturers clean-cab radio will fit and work without any modification. This might be a reason why they cost so much.

-Josh

Post by Pj » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:30 pm

Its more of a railroad term, and came out not too long ago.

Radio's in railroad service started in the late 50's, early 60's. At that time, locomotive cab configurations were all over the place, as there were more than two locomotive manufactures.

At one point, AAR came out with a standard "AAR Control Stand" so that no matter who built the loco, the control stand would basically be the same setup. At that time, radio's were placed all over the place in many different configurations. As the radio's became more of a one piece unit, they were moved off the back wall and on top of the control stand. An example would be this: AAR control stand with the radio thrown on top:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=33787
When built, this loco didn't have the radio it its place. This is a newer verision of the control stand as the loco was in an accident a couple of years ago, and it used for VIP trains.

This is a more modern view of the "AAR" type of control stands but with LCD's instead of gagues..very popular with Norfolk Southern:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=42118

This isn't the best picture, but many RR's are ordering the new desktop style controls. There is a debate amoung engineers on what works better, but this is what one looks like:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=38002
or
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=31998
or with LCD's
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=3817
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=23736
Starting in the mid 80's, the loco cabs became "more user friendly" you could say.

As another interesting feature, these have been modified for train control..look familar?

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:59 pm

So NS finally switched to the desktop style controls now? I thought they insisted upon the older style with the updated electronics as pictured for years now.

Post by Pj » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:26 pm

NS did buy a few orders of loco's in the desktop style, but apparently everyone hated it, and went with the AAR stand with the LCD screens. However, rumor has it that they may go back for more desktop style control stands.

Then again, this is a RR that liked to run the loco's "backwards" for the last 30 years.

Everywhere but the south seems to like the desktop controls, or at least don't complain about them as much.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:45 pm

Interesting.... still running them backwards? I see plenty of NS units on run through but haven't been around an NS main in a while to pay attention if they are still doing it. Blame NW and Southern RR since they kept up the long hood forward operation long after everyone else stopped it.

Weren't they ordering dual AAR stands?

larryepage · Post by **larryepage** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:48 am

The operational symptoms you describe are consistent with the standard method of "disabling" these radios before selling them into the market...removing the programming PROM from the socket on the VFO board. Unfortunately, verifying this requires a complete disassembly of the radio to get to the VFO board, which nas to be removed to access the socket. You are looking for an empty 18 pin socket.

If you find the PROM missing, good luck finding a replacement. It's an old part NLA from Motorola. A couple of years ago, you could get the part replaced only by sending the entire unit to the depot for a flat rate plus parts repair. And I'll have to look for the part number...it's an old TTL (actually ECL, I think) PROM, something on the order of SN7xxxx.

I have long disagreed with disabling the radios this way then selling them on the surplus market...it's kind of fraudlent in my mind, since it leaves the radio with the appearance of working properly when powered up. And...there are other, much better ways to disable the radio.

Anyway...good luck getting it going again.

Oh...if you decide to scrap the radio, DO NOT cut the microphone cable. Disassemble the front panel and unplug or unsolder it from the font panel board. The microphone cable is probably the most valuable part of the radio and I would be interested in buying it from you, with or without the microphone.

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:29 am

So, even if I do find the EEPROM or figure out how to glom some other EPROM in there, I'd still have to find the codeplug for it.

Larry might just end up with a mic and cord.

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:46 pm

Hello.

Are you looking for the microphone cable?
I can get the cable for this radio, as well as the spectra, as there are 3rd party suppliers for this.
The first is Arandock wire and cable.
I have converted several radios to the telephone-type handset, and have had no trouble getting this, or the AAR and telco connectors.

10-95 · Post by **10-95** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:59 pm

Is that a GE sticker on top of one of those spectra's???

Frank

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:26 pm

Ok, here's what's going to happen: I'll pull the mic and cable and send it off to Larry. The rest of the rig goes to Pj for his model railroad room.

Guys, send me your addresses and I'll figure up the shipping costs.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:20 pm

See back in the day the Engine side of the Loco were the Front (RS series and such)

plus engine front is safer. what would you rather hit a car with Engine or that damn snub nose

EngineerZ · Post by **EngineerZ** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:53 am

10-95 wrote:Is that a GE sticker on top of one of those spectra's???

Frank

Sure looks like it... Kind of ironic isn't it? A GE spectra? Next thing you know someone is going to come up with a photo of a Motorola Orion... (Of course, there have been 4 different companies' logos on the Orion already; I guess a fifth wouldn't be all that surprising...

--z

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:20 pm

GE and Harris made such a device as a Locotrol which was the "brains" of a locomotive...I guess the Spectra was just a convenient location for the sticker

-Mike

Post by Pj » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:38 pm

Actually, locotrol is for DPU or Distrubted Power Unit operation. This allows for unmanned mid or rear train helpers to be used, and all controllled by radio from the lead locomotive. Its also actually GE Harris.

streaker · Post by **streaker** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:09 pm

Incidentally NS now runs their new power short nose Forward, the Little circled "F" on the side means Forward. Someone added about hitting a car with the short nose, it's not hitting a car to worry about, its the Loaded Gravel trucks, and tankers that go boom that you worry about with a train. Also running long nose forward brings lots of diesel fumes into the cab. I figured since someone made the comment, I'd fill in the gap as I am a conductor on a Class 1 Railroad.

Threeshot223 · Post by **Threeshot223** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:37 pm

EngineerZ wrote:
10-95 wrote:Is that a GE sticker on top of one of those spectra's???

Frank
Sure looks like it... Kind of ironic isn't it? A GE spectra? Next thing you know someone is going to come up with a photo of a Motorola Orion... (Of course, there have been 4 different companies' logos on the Orion already; I guess a fifth wouldn't be all that surprising...

--z

Funny. GE also makes Spectra 120/240 equipment-mounted motor controllers. Usually used on shop tools- drill presses, lathes, and hydraulic tools.

Heterodyne · Post by **Heterodyne** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:07 am

KitN1MCC wrote:See back in the day the Engine side of the Loco were the Front (RS series and such)

plus engine front is safer. what would you rather hit a car with Engine or that damn snub nose

It also came from the Steam guys, who spent their entire career driving loco from behind the power plant... a lot of them were very hesitant to start driving with the prime mover BEHIND them.

How anyone can drive one of those things long hood forward for any period of time is beyond my understanding. I've been in tall-nose GP9's before and can't understand how they can see out the front, and that's just with the tall nose in the way.

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:01 am

Well, in a locomotive, not seeing something 5 seconds sooner isn't going to really make THAT much of a difference to the end result, so...

-Mike

streaker · Post by **streaker** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:21 pm

I realize this is getting a little off the topic, but I have to reply to this one. I have never heard a crew that like running long nose forward. Yes seeing something that much sooner does make a large difference, you would be surprised how often seeing something right now can save your tail. Just my experience.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:30 pm

well seeing how i am ALCO man my self i love th engine front.

and i have bine and ran both types the long nose is great. alot more fun too

dapaq2 · Post by **dapaq2** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:37 pm

Ya know if i didnt know any better I would almost think that I am in a Railroad Chat Room and not a Radio Chat Room.

Radios anyone?

Doug

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:57 pm

u have forgottne this is bat labs we wonder on and off topic alot no else really compalins

dapaq2 · Post by **dapaq2** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:34 pm

Didnt know I was complaining. Sorry you took it that way.

mp501mp · Post by **mp501mp** » Sun May 08, 2005 12:18 pm

hey all:
there are 2 types of rss for these radios depending on what firmware you have in your radio and now with the introduction of the new apco25 railroad radio there ae now 3 types.
i have the first 2. these are anolog rss and the apco25 version uses the digital version.
the neat thing is that these radios give you 99+99 channels i.e.
all channels are simplex and can be combined to be used with repeaters.

channel set up is basic

say 01tx 01rx or 01 tx 99rx or 99tx 01 rx and so on you can program these throught the key pad.
tx and rx can be swapped back and forth depending on what you want to listen to. these will do dtmf,tone call,home channel revert,mdc600 tone,mdc1200 tone,channel combo change,ptt,data etc just depends on your options that are installed.
i have on that has been reprogramed to do all of the vhf high band so if you have questions on this radio let me know.

removing the locomotive 72 volt circut so you can use it on 13.5 volts dc is easy. just a matter of unplugging it and installing a pigtail plug.

drop me a line if you or any one needs info i will try to respond quickly.
this is a rare radio so if you get a chance to get one do it.
by the by it comes in 2 different types locomotive cab and vehicle dash type.

will try to post some pics soon.
thanks
jim

mp501mp · Post by **mp501mp** » Sun May 08, 2005 12:27 pm

sorry forgot to mention i was talking about the spectra clean cab radio i my posting above.
jim

Railroad Radio

Railroad Radio

Re: Railroad Radio

Ok, I obviously goofed....

Railroad Radio

RR Radio

Re: RR Radio

microphone cable.

railroad spectra rss

railroad spectra