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Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

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Fuel4300
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Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

Postby Fuel4300 » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:08 pm

Due to money contraints, instead of going with HT1000's or HT750's it looks like we will be purchasing CP200's. It seems as though the dealer talked some of the people doing the purchasing into getting the CP200 and being able to afford a couple more than if we purchased the HT1000's or HT750's.

Here is my question: is it appropriate for public safety? I've read on the board the CP150 is not even considered sericable by motorola shops, as the CP200 is a short step up from that it cant be a good sign. On the motorola website there is no mention of public safety applications in the CP200 literature.

A couple of my other concerns are that we already have the capability to program and service (to a degree) our existing system of HT1000's. Is there even a customer programming setup for the CP200? For $350, how durable are these radios?

Thanks,
Mike

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d

Postby harrisjt2000 » Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:09 pm

the coutnty i live in had gp300 and maxon sp140s for the longest time until they got a astro 800 meg radios system. the problem with the gp300 is the accesory jack is on the top and it broke all the time.(which if im not mistaken the cp200 is like the gp300)

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Postby Alan » Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:32 pm

In my opinion the CP200 is below the acepable level of quality for a public safety agency.
For one thing, the radio is a Radius product and therefore must be returned to Motorola factory for service (unless the dealer will pay for the repairs out of their pocket).
The Specs on the CP200 are somwhat lower than the Ht1000 series (i.e. RX performance).

The lure of low price is attractive. You will have to somehow put a value on the added risk that the users are exposed to of a lower tier product.

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Re: Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

Postby Cam » Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:48 pm

Fuel4300 wrote:Due to money contraints, instead of going with HT1000's or HT750's it looks like we will be purchasing CP200's. It seems as though the dealer talked some of the people doing the purchasing into getting the CP200 and being able to afford a couple more than if we purchased the HT1000's or HT750's.

Here is my question: is it appropriate for public safety? I've read on the board the CP150 is not even considered sericable by motorola shops, as the CP200 is a short step up from that it cant be a good sign. On the motorola website there is no mention of public safety applications in the CP200 literature.

A couple of my other concerns are that we already have the capability to program and service (to a degree) our existing system of HT1000's. Is there even a customer programming setup for the CP200? For $350, how durable are these radios?

Thanks,
Mike


It's the CP100 that is not serviceable. The CP150 is a two watt version on the CP200 without MDC and a few other thing. From the outside they look the same.

Cam

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Postby jim » Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:51 pm

The CP200 is very similar to the GP300 in quality and build. There are tens of thousands of GP300s out there in fire and police service and have no problems.

Sure, everyone says to use a Saber or HT1000, but in reality, these are from a gone era. Besides, they were well over $1000 each. The CP200 is only 300 bucks. Most PS departments don't want to bother with eBay or used 15 year old radios (or take the liability risks) so there really isn't alot of choices from Motorola today.

I wouldn't hesitate using one for PS use- especially seeing many of the POS, junk P1225s out there for 5 years and they still work fine. The CP200 can only be a better radio than the 1225.

Don't overlook radios from Kenwood, either. They are just as good as Motorola's products.

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Postby JOHN 1807 » Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:01 pm

Actually, The HT1000 is a current production radio, or at least it was as of a month ago.

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Postby Station House Products » Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:33 pm

Well, we have sold over 100 of the CP200s in the last few months and have had VERY satisfied customers. Our local PD was given one for a demo and now uses them EXCLUSIVELY! According to the guy using it initially, better TX and the RX blew away the GP300s they've been using.

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Postby Fuel4300 » Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:48 pm

Thank you all for your replies. Is there an rss or cps available for these radios?

We already have the ability to program our present radios and it is a cost consideration if we have to send these back to the depot everytime we want to change something vs the cost of a cable and the software lisense.

Thanks again,
Mike

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Postby wavetar » Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:29 pm

Motorola never advertised the CP150/200 as 'Public Safety' grade radios. In fact, the programming software is actually titled "Commercial Series Radios".

That said, the GP300 was never advertised as 'Public Safety' grade either, and I've seen TONS of them in PS use....and they are far better than some of the other radios I've seen in PS use...aka Maxon & Tekk & low-end Uniden crap.

I'm hopeful the CP150/200 series is the beginning of better quality commercial product from Motorola. The initial roll-out (relative to the HT750/1250 series) has been very successful. No mass recalls, no quirky firmware updates every 2 weeks, and not a single one back to our shop for repair yet!

The chassis seems very rigid & rugged...even more so than the GP300 is. I'm not crazy about them having the same accessory jack as the GP300...but at least it's on the side of the radio & not the top...which makes it far harder for water, dirt & whatever other crap to get into it.

And hey, Kenwood makes heavy use of the exact same accessory jack. In fact, these radios are so similar in style & price to the Kenwood TK2102/3102 series that our sales reps have dubbed them 'Kenwood Killers'.

Although I will not bill them as PS radios if Motorola won't, there's far worse out there. They seem to be solid, reliable performers that won't 'lock-up' & stop working for no apparent reason...which is really what most people, including PS users, are looking for.

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Postby wavetar » Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:39 pm

Fuel4300 wrote:Thank you all for your replies. Is there an rss or cps available for these radios?

We already have the ability to program our present radios and it is a cost consideration if we have to send these back to the depot everytime we want to change something vs the cost of a cable and the software lisense.

Thanks again,
Mike


Yes, by the way, the CPS is part# RVN4191C. It also does the CM200/300 & PR400/PM400 series radios. The part# for the CP150/200 programming cable is: AAPMKN4004

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Postby Al » Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:56 pm

And RVN4191_ requires the same license (RLN5596A) as do the CPS for the HT750/1250/1550/CDM750/1250/1550 and the CT250/450/450S series. After reading the complaints posted here by some, does that tell you how easy it is to acquire the license?

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Postby Fuel4300 » Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:18 pm

Unfortunately, it looks like our best option might be to go with something other than Motorola. It’s come down to either purchasing the cp200 or a public safety grade radio from another company.

For a comparable price we can purchase VX-180's that give us 16 channels, 2-tone decode, and an 8 character display and the programming setup is a lot easier to obtain than anything from Motorola.

Since whether we go with the CP200 or VX-180 the programming equipment and accessories we have will not be compatible either way, I think the Vertex is not so much the best choice but the lesser of the two evils.

I have seen the vertex radios in service nearby and I know that they have been happy with them. They also have a mix of Motorola and Vertex equipment.


Mike

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Postby nmfire10 » Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:37 pm

My usual shameless plug... .Check out Kenwood while your at it!
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Postby n9upc » Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:40 pm

The kenwood tk-2160 (vhf) 3160 (uhf) is very comparable to the visar. It comes with 16 channels, 2 tone decode & encode with some other features and it is very cost effective.

The CP200 was desgined, as it appears, as a cost effective portable for the service industry. It does not meet the specs of a radio designed for public safety. I thin it is nothing more then a XTN portable which is programmable.

I would go with the Kenwood line if the budget is an issue.
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Postby Fuel4300 » Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:38 am

This morning I was able to get a price of $225 for the VX-180 plus $50 for the charger. It seems like a good solid radio with a couple features (alpha display, programmable scan list, etc) you would not be able to get from Motorola without going to the MT2000 or HT1250.

The TK-2140 was a little more radio than we need and just barely out of our price range.

I hate to not go with Motorola but when it comes down to the numbers there is just no way to afford a Motorola and why kill our budget when there are quality Public Safety radios out there for a third of the cost.

Thank you all again for your input, it was very helpful and much appreciated!

Mike

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Postby Tony Soprano » Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:31 am

Mike,

I can certainly understand the rationale for going Vertex. On a tight budget, it seems logical to buy two or three Vertexes for one Motorola.

Before you make your decision, please consider the service end after the sale. If you can get good service turnaround on a Vertex, you would be very lucky. And based on my hands-on experience with the low-end Vertex products, I would not go so far to say the are public safety grade. They have good features, and the price is right, but that's about all I can say about it. To call them a good public safety radio is a stretch.

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Postby RADIOMAN2002 » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:09 am

Mass recalls, no more like a coverup. 2 years ago, our department bought a dozen 1550ls+ portables, more than half came down with a mysterious problem of a hi pitched squeal when using a low frequency 453.xxx, worked ok on the repeater side. (This was after these radios failed during a live burn demonstration, with firefighters in a burning building and the radios failed) It took almost a week for Motorola to come to realization that the radio was the problem, not the user, not the programmer or the dealer, Motorola became very concerned, so concerned they hand delived replacement 1250's the next day.(they said they didn't trust the 1550's comming off the line to be safe as they might have they same problem) Part of an agreement was I was not party to stated not to say anything untill the problem was fixed. It took 6 months numerous phone calls, most of which came with no answers since Motorola doesn't make the product and had to talk to "engineers" in the pacific rim area. It turned out to be a firmware problem of overdriving the PA module into spurious transmissions. You may have heard this before but I am going to keep it in the foreground, because I no longer trust the Motorola product line, lower tier or hi tier. My choice now is Vertex, some have said there are turnaround problems on repair, but with nearly 100 of the VX-180's now in my service, we have had less than 2 radio failures, one due to being dropped in a water tank.

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Postby Quarterwave » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:38 am

I used to work for a large MSS group and my division sold and serviced about 20 counties. We had every FD, PD and SO as well as many other agencies as customers, most with extensive maintenace contracts. We sold "Branded" and Radius of course. Of all those high profile customers, we only ever sold a few Visars to detectives (for the size obviously) and one SO had Spectras so they could do DVPXL. So 95% percent of our remaining customers fleets had 100% Radius. They got more for thier money and it suited the need. I don't recall having any major issuse that could relate back to poor quality or specs on these. And yes, we ate numerous repair bills on those early GP300's with crappy Accy connectors and volume controls, but they bought more, even when we offered Visars and HT1000's. I personally own and use P1225's and Gp300 and numberous Radius mobiles, and I like them, but I am not a public service user either. I also understand the Kenwoods are nice. I guess its all about what you have to work with and what you are willing to accept.

A thought: No matter if you are the individual consumer or the public serivce agency buying a product, you accept the specs, the warranty and the features and capabilties of what you are buying when you purchase, right? So why is it that if an agency buys some radios and a year later they are unhappy with them, it's ok to think the vendor should jump and replace them for free or give them thier money back or at least be subbmitted to alot of finger pointing and cursing, right? If I buy a new wireless phone and a year later I don't think it performs that well, its out of warranty, and I have no recourse, and the vendor doesnt care, is that right? Of course we know that in the public agency scenario the vendor wants to keep the customer, so they may be inclined to do more, but why is my money any less green? Just commentary. Thanks.

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Postby Fuel4300 » Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:20 pm

Our only experiance with Radius products is with the SP50's. Our current system consists of hand-me-down HT1000 left over from when the PD went UHF and a few SP50's purchased 4 years ago or so.

The only camplaint we ever had with the SP50's was with their peformance. They simply did not perform on the same level as the jedis. We operate on simplex (for now) on a 5 sq mile college campus with all concrete construction buildings from 1 to 10 stories. There are numerous spots on campus where recieving and transmitting is a large problem. Not once did we ever have a service issue with the SP50's or have a radio failure. They simply did not perform anywhere near as well as the HT1000's.

Until we get a repeater up and running (in the next couple years...) this is a serious issue. (By the way, with the Police on UHF repeater they still have problems in some areas of campus) It would make no sense to go with a Radius product and have them sitting in the closet next to the SP50's.

We have used Vertex products on campus before and they have performed comparably the HT1000's so they seemed to be our best choice. That decision has little or nothing to do with maintainence or quality issues associated with the CP200 or other Radius products and everything to do with their RF performance.

Mike

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Postby chipjumper » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:59 pm

Just as good for Public Safety as a Kia is for a Police Car...

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Re:

Postby Wqwg712 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:10 pm

Alan wrote:In my opinion the CP200 is below the acepable level of quality for a public safety agency.
For one thing, the radio is a Radius product and therefore must be returned to Motorola factory for service (unless the dealer will pay for the repairs out of their pocket).
The Specs on the CP200 are somwhat lower than the Ht1000 series (i.e. RX performance).

The lure of low price is attractive. You will have to somehow put a value on the added risk that the users are exposed to of a lower tier product.



In my opinion the CP200 is ABOVE the acepable level of quality for a public safety agency.

First of all...
This is a Radius, meaning it has better reliability and firmware and hardware.

The specs on a HT1000 are so poor compaired to the cp200.

The ht1000 is old as windows 95 and programmed with Dos.
The software has very few fetures.

The HT1000 has excelent battery life and nice design.
The HT1000 doest radiate RF as good as the cp200 does.

The Ht1000 is public saftey for only 1 reason...
The super duty battery cycle.

The cp200 has better firmware hardware uses CPS and puts out RF waves like radios on Steriods.

This being said the cp200 can penatrate buildings better and holds on to repeater allot better than the HT1000 which drops in and out with allot of white noise.

The Cp200 isnt heavy like a brick and works better too!

The cp200 can do MDC1200
Key up and unkey DTFM
And superior Scan function companding mode and voice tones... the cp200 can be modifield to PERFECTLY programed to the department's desire.... Which the HT1000 cant come close to what the cp200 can do

cp200 side mic is another downfall... But easily bypasses since the radio is so effective.

The HT1000 has better battery life and thats IT!

The cp200 will do the job as long as officers don't use the cp200 all day instead use their mobile radios in the car and use portible on the field.

The cp200 doesnt die quick.

It can stay on for 2-3 days idle
And if you have a conversation that last 1-2 hours non stop your will die...
If you talk on the radio every
20 minutes than your radio can last all day...

Officers need to know how to use the mobile radio in the car.


Ht1000 looks: 10-10
Ht1000 Features: 6-10
Ht1000 weight: 4-10
Ht1000 RSS: 4-10
Ht1000 battery life: 10-10
Ht1000 Rf Tx power: 7-10
Ht1000 RX signal: 8-10

Cp200 looks: 8-10
Cp200 Features: 10-10
Cp200 weight: 10-10
Cp200 RSS: 10-10
Cp200 battery life: 6-10
Cp200 Rf Tx power: 10-10
Cp200 Rx signal: 10-10

The Ht1000 biggest disavantage
Is it poor RF Tx power
May be 5 watts but still weak.

Cp200 biggest disadvantage
Is it has poor battery life.
Main reason i think is because it is a powerful RF transmitter!

Cp200 penatrates better!

The cp200 gets really hot when talking on back and forth.
The Ht1000 doesnt get hot at all!

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Re: Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

Postby JRUTA » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:48 am

Well, ok but this thread is twelve years old, so.......

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Re: Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

Postby RFguy » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:07 am

JRUTA wrote:Well, ok but this thread is twelve years old, so.......


....and all the models discussed have been cancelled

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Re: Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

Postby chipjumper » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:56 am

Wow; I'm trying to reflect on where I was in my life almost twelve years ago when I left my pithy comment for this thread. Well, a PD I once worked at used two-channel GP350's. We beat the crap out of them and they never had any issues. No speaker/mics or fancy holsters. A couple guys used some of those solid steel Port-A-Clip's and most like I used the standard Motorola clip.
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Re: Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

Postby JRUTA » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:10 am

@Chipjumper. Right? I think I started reading this forum circa 2001(?) Don't even recall which radios were in "vogue" haha

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Re: Is the CP200 Appropriate for Public Safety?

Postby JRUTA » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:11 am

Gotta say though, one of my first was a GP300. That thing was small and SOLID! Loved it.


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