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EDACS Question

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ExKa|iBuR
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EDACS Question

Postby ExKa|iBuR » Tue May 18, 2004 10:10 pm

I know this isn't Motorola, but...

I'm in charge of getting radios for a large event in Toronto. We've signed a contract with a company that is providing us with a 900MHz Digital EDACS system, Orion Mobile with LPE200 portables.

Anyway, I have to figure out what we're programming in them, and available features (scan, etc...). I don't know that much about EDACS, so what I'm looking for is some kind of guide as to what all features EDACS have. I'm fairly familiar with Motorola, but not EDACS.

Some kind of PDF features manual or some such would help.

Thanks!

-Mike
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Re: EDACS Question

Postby MSS-Dave » Wed May 19, 2004 2:24 pm

ExKa|iBuR wrote:I know this isn't Motorola, but...

I'm in charge of getting radios for a large event in Toronto. We've signed a contract with a company that is providing us with a 900MHz Digital EDACS system, Orion Mobile with LPE200 portables.

Anyway, I have to figure out what we're programming in them, and available features (scan, etc...). I don't know that much about EDACS, so what I'm looking for is some kind of guide as to what all features EDACS have. I'm fairly familiar with Motorola, but not EDACS.

Some kind of PDF features manual or some such would help.

Thanks!

-Mike





Let me know if this helps...

http://www.trunkedradio.net/trunked/edacs/EDACS_Whitepaper.pdf

Dave

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Postby ExKa|iBuR » Wed May 19, 2004 3:39 pm

Well, basically, here's the things we'd LIKE to be able to do:

There's going to be 15 or so talkgroups.

Is there some way we can set up our Dispatch Radio (Orion) to do a system-wide broadcast, so you can talk on each of the 15 talkgroups at the same time...sort of like multiselecting, but through the mobile radio.

If not, is there some way you can use an announcement talkgroup with EDACS?

As well, we'd like the dispatch radio to have ultimate priority, meaning, if it keys up over anything else, it'll be heard, the other radios won't.

Also...an alert feature would be very nice. Just something that sounds out a beep beep beep kinda thing over the talkgroup.

What else...hmm...

A desk mic and headset would really kick-ass - do they make those for the Orion?

Thanks for the help!

-Mike
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Postby Cam » Wed May 19, 2004 5:21 pm

Wow
What kind of event is this (if you don't mind my asking)? I did com setups for a few "large" events and I was lucky if I could get up a few repeaters. Sounds like fun though.

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Postby ExKa|iBuR » Wed May 19, 2004 5:28 pm

Yep.. Pride Toronto, it's the largest public event in Canada, annual attendance is well in excess of 1 million people.

We've got about 500 or so radios out at any one time, so it's quite the system.

Personally, I wouldn't have picked 900MHz EDACS AEGIS, but hey...that's what you get.

Better than using a 5 channel LTR system like they have in previous years...

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Postby mike m » Wed May 19, 2004 7:16 pm

A lot better than having RACES/ARES do it.

Go over to Yahoo groups and check out GE groups or GE orion groups. Ask for Mark C. ,KB4CVN, he is one of the EDACS engineers, I'm sure he can help you out.


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YES.

Postby Cowthief » Wed May 19, 2004 8:03 pm

Hello.

Yes, you can set the console up to allow it to transmit dispite a talk inhibit command, or any radio in the system for that matter.
You can send a global massage, provided the radios have the correct config'.
EDACS can do a lot of things, but, so can motorolas offerings.

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Postby va3wxm » Thu May 20, 2004 4:10 am

ExKa|iBuR wrote:Yep.. Pride Toronto, it's the largest public event in Canada, annual attendance is well in excess of 1 million people.

We've got about 500 or so radios out at any one time, so it's quite the system.

Personally, I wouldn't have picked 900MHz EDACS AEGIS, but hey...that's what you get.

Better than using a 5 channel LTR system like they have in previous years...

-Mike

Digital comms for a public event? Wow, I guess they don't want people listening to the comments as the "queens" come marching in. :D

And I agree it's much better to do it this way than to get the ARES boys.

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Postby ExKa|iBuR » Thu May 20, 2004 5:52 am

There's reasons it's a digital system but contractually I'm not supposed to disclose them. Let's just say it's being but "on display" for a potiential large client.

Thanks to all those who have replied...glad to know at least some of what I want to do is possible!

-Mike
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Postby ExKa|iBuR » Thu May 20, 2004 5:54 am

va3wxm wrote:And I agree it's much better to do it this way than to get the ARES boys.


Yes, so sorry Bryan & Seth...no hamsexy pictures :(

I remember the Toronto ham clubs getting incredibly pissed off that they couldn't be part of it...they were basically told that when they can provide RELIABLE communications with at least 15 channels and 200 radios, then they'd be considered. That shut them up :lol:
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Postby SmackDaddy » Thu May 20, 2004 12:33 pm

Hey there,

EDACS does have a way of handling "announcement" talkgroups. When an EDACS system is designed, they select the layout of the fleets and subfleets. Each subfleet actually has a talkgroup that acts as a broadcast talkgroup. Any radio tuned into that particular fleet automatically watches for traffic on that talkgroup. This is just part of the EDACS spec.

So, all you need is the fleet announce talkgroup(s) programmed into that Orion. That is something that your system manager should be able to do.

Now, the other important option is with regards to the fleet layout. You will want to have them layout the subfleet properly so that all of your talkgroups have the same subfleet announce group. This is easily configured on a per-radio basis in the programming software I believe.

Unlike Motorola trunked systems, EDACS can not specify a specific announcement talkgroup. Instead there are the following announcement groups : system wide (every radio), fleet wide (all radios for a particular user) and sub-fleet (all radios in a particular user's subfleet).

Cheers,
SD

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Postby Chrisjz » Fri May 21, 2004 3:20 am

ExKa|iBuR wrote:
As well, we'd like the dispatch radio to have ultimate priority, meaning, if it keys up over anything else, it'll be heard, the other radios won't.

Also...an alert feature would be very nice. Just something that sounds out a beep beep beep kinda thing over the talkgroup.


These 2 features quoted above that you need are not available on an Orion or any other EDACS radio. These are functions of a C3 Maestro console with a CEC/IMC (Console Electronics Controller / Integrated Multi-site Controller).
It's not something small, the CEC/IMC is a rack or two of equipment and the C3 Maestro is a desktop PC running console software with an EAE (Enhanced Audio Enclosure) and some other associated equipment. This typically is not something that can be setup for an event or temporary installation.
Being able to talk over an already transmitting unit is a feature called console pre-empt and the CEC/IMC with a MOM controller card generates the alert tones you are looking for. Hope this hepls a little...

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Postby SmackDaddy » Fri May 21, 2004 5:05 am

I just thought of another way that you can do this. Not sure why I didn't think of this sooner.

It is possible to program the radio to have a single talkgroup with "priority 1" status. You can set the radio to treat the talkgroup as priority 1 even when it is in the middle of another call. This talkgroup can be any group at all, it doesn't have to be in your subfleet or anything special.

The important thing to remember is to have the programmer select "always scan P1 group" and make it so that the priority status is not user selectable. This way the radio will always give that group priority, and the user can't disable it.

I usually use this function to monitor high-importance talkgroups on EDACS systems. For example SWAT or other major emergency groups.

The cool thing is that the radio will switch to this group even in the middle of receiving a transmission on another group. In digital modes (AEGIS and ProVoice) this will be very quick. In Analogue it may take a couple of seconds, as the data to do this is slow-speed in a subaudible format.

This will allow you to override any transmission at any time and come out of all radios that have that particular group set up to be Priority 1.

Cheers,
SD.

Chrisjz
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Postby Chrisjz » Fri May 21, 2004 11:13 am

SmackDaddy wrote:It is possible to program the radio to have a single talkgroup with "priority 1" status. You can set the radio to treat the talkgroup as priority 1 even when it is in the middle of another call. This talkgroup can be any group at all, it doesn't have to be in your subfleet or anything special.

The important thing to remember is to have the programmer select "always scan P1 group" and make it so that the priority status is not user selectable. This way the radio will always give that group priority, and the user can't disable it.

I usually use this function to monitor high-importance talkgroups on EDACS systems. For example SWAT or other major emergency groups.

The cool thing is that the radio will switch to this group even in the middle of receiving a transmission on another group. In digital modes (AEGIS and ProVoice) this will be very quick. In Analogue it may take a couple of seconds, as the data to do this is slow-speed in a subaudible format.

This will allow you to override any transmission at any time and come out of all radios that have that particular group set up to be Priority 1.


Yes, this will work as a poor mans "console pre-empt" and would serve the purpose needed at hand but on a single talk-group only basis. All of the radios would need to be programmed with this function and be told what group to go to. Not such an easy task when you have hundreds of radios and little time to program them.
A note on SmackDaddy's scan configuration... In order for the units to be able to respond to a call on the defined P1 group, the scan configuration must be set for "talkback scan" not "selected-channel". That is if you intend to respond to comms on the P1 group.

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Postby Cam » Fri May 21, 2004 11:37 am

Chrisjz wrote:
In order for the units to be able to respond to a call on the defined P1 group, the scan configuration must be set for "talkback scan" not "selected-channel". That is if you intend to respond to comms on the P1 group.


I don't think you would want that. If you get people talking on this group then you hold up all other users as there radios lock onto this talkgroup. I would think what you would want to do is have all user that hear the masgae and need to talkback move to another talkgroup. You could program all the radios to have say an announcement talkback talkgroup. So you have an announcement all radios hear and then the announcer says go to what ever talkgroup or announcement talkback talkgroup at the end of the announcement.

Cam

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Postby Chrisjz » Fri May 21, 2004 11:44 am

Also keep in mind that the group and unit priorities that can be set in the CSD (Communications System Director) or the VAX System Manager (for older systems that haven't been upgraded yet) do not apply to a call being placed on a non-busy system but, however dictate how a call is placed during call queing only.

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Postby apco25 » Fri May 21, 2004 1:34 pm

Sounds to me like he won't have console or system access at all in this scenario, unless the owner of the system is setting up special features for them.

The P1 always scan will work nicely if all the radios get programmed for it.
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