Speed of my programming computer

[mfd63m3]

i know that in order to program with older software such as visar and gm300 software you cants have too fast of a computer does anyone know what the limit or the rules on these speeds are thanks alot

rob

[Station House Products]

Well, there are thos that say they can use as fast as a pentium 1 or 2 for these programs, but I STRONGLY advise against it. The ideal speed is anything in the 386 MHz. or 486 MHz. range. There is a complete section on programming suggestions and requirements here on the "Programming Primer"page. Here is a link:

http://www.batlabs.com/newbie.html

Feel free to ask with any questions if you are in doubt about anything. Better to ask how to do something and get the right answer than to ask how to fix a radio that has been fried and not get an answer that you want.

[Monty]

HI:

Good Rule of thumb.

Use a 386-486-25 with DOS 6.00 or 6.22

With the Above, you can properly Program
about 98% of all Motorola Radios properly.

=============================

Later Model Radios like Astro-Sabers, CDM/Pro
( any radio that is CPS based ) a good stable
Pentium up to 500 Mhz with Win98SE2 is a
ideal Platform to work from.

Tech Tip:

Before you "write" to the radio, INSURE all
the Auto-matic Functions are disabled like
Scandisc, Defrag, etc.

Monty

[88mk7man]

What I dont understand is why do Motorola radios require such ancient hardware? I program GE MPA portables and Kenwood mobiles with a P4 1.8Ghz system all the time with no ill effects.

[Nand]

Below are some of the minimum requirements as posted by Motorola on their website for RSS packages before and after January 1996.
The big change made at the time was to make the RSS independent from the CPU speed.

Also below is a selection from the Maxtrac read.me file included with the RSS that gives suggestions on how to run it under Windows and also suggesting that faster may be better if running under Windows for this particular RSS. In the end it suggest that you likely should run DOS RSS under DOS and avoid all troubles, in this case Windows DOS but if you want, pretty near any other DOS.

Windows DOS (reboot in DOS mode) is all we use for programming any of the RSS that requires DOS without any problems ever.
As for speed, we run over 1 GHz on some laptops for today’s DOS RSS radios. Only for some of the older RSS like the stuff from before 1996 we slow the computer down by disabling the internal cache in the computer BIOS.

Running all DOS RSS on a slow 486 or such is an excellent way to stay out of trouble as far as speed is concerned if running both older and newer RSS but not needed any longer for the all the newer versions released after 1996 and definitely not practical if also programming radios that require to run under Windows when using the same computer.

Nand.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum Hardware/Software Configuration - for all RSS packages existing before January 1, 1996:
The Radius Radio Service Software (RSS) is designed to operate on an IBM 100% Compatible, XT, AT or PS/2 Model 30/50 Computer. Any one of these computers can be used as the radio service computer. IBM DOS 3.2 or higher and Asynchronous Serial Communications adapter and RAM memory of 640K bytes minimum are necessary for the radio service computer.

Minimum Hardware/Software Configuration - for any new RSS package ordered after February 19, 1996 or later:
Windows 3.1 needed for P1225/M1225
80386 or 80486 Microprocessor Computer, IBM or 100% compatible
DOS 5.0 or Higher
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The Motorola - MaxTrac CONVENTIONAL - Radio Service Software
(RSS) product, RVN-4019, has been updated as follows;

Part #......................... RVN-4019-K
includes 3.5" installation diskette
RSS User's Manual #....... 68P8-0900Z03-J

Software Version............... R07.02.00
Software Date.................. 25-JUN-97


6. - The PC-RIB-Radio Communications Timing has been changed, to
enhance the Comm. Bus operation over a wider range of CPU speeds and
Operating Systems (DOS, Windows). This version contains 2 Timers
which are independent of CPU speed, and which do not conflict
directly with Windows' multi-tasking Timer when the RSS is used in
Windows' FULL-SCREEN DOS MODE.

If Reading or Writing the Radio's Codeplug causes a consistent
failure on your PC, please see the WINDOWS item below, -and- the
DOS_INFO.DOC file that was installed with this RSS, -BEFORE-
contacting the Motorola Customer Resources RSS Support Team.

9. - WINDOWS - We cannot guarantee successful operation of this RSS under
Microsoft Windows ([*] = (tm) Microsoft Corp). Windows will not
allow programs direct access to the Comm. Port and Timer hardware;
these functions are emulated by Windows, hence they are slower than
under DOS, and this could interfere with critical communications
timing. Higher-speed CPUs/PCs (80486+ at 66 MHz and above) have the
best chance of success.

Any setup for RSS within Windows 3.1 [*] or Windows 95 [*] should be
done in the DOS FULL-SCREEN Mode, as opposed to the DOS WINDOW Mode.
Communications programs (i.e. RSS Reading / Writing the Radio
Codeplug) cannot be executed successfully in WINDOW "background" mode,
and the WINDOW "foreground" mode may not sufficiently support the
critical timing needed to consistently communicate with the
RIB/Radio. FULL-SCREEN Mode gives higher priority (speed) to the RSS
than the DOS WINDOW Mode.

For Windows 3.1, use the PIF EDITOR to open the DOSPRMPT.PIF file.
Set "Display Usage" to FULL SCREEN and "Execution" to EXCLUSIVE.
Under "ADVANCED", set "Foreground Priority" to 10,000, and set the
"Detect Idle Time" box OFF. SAVE the file before using the
"MS-DOS PROMPT" icon.

For Windows 95, create an icon/shortcut. Under PROPERTIES:
Select PROGRAM Sheet;
set "CLOSE ON EXIT" box TRUE.
Under "ADVANCED";
set "PREVENT PROGRAM FROM DETECTING WINDOWS" to TRUE.
set "SUGGEST MS-DOS MODE" to FALSE.
set "MS-DOS MODE" to FALSE.
Select SCREEN Sheet;
set "USAGE" to FULL SCREEN.
Select MISC Sheet;
set "ALLOW SCREENSAVER" to FALSE.
set "IDLE SENSITIVITY" to LOW.

If the above does not allow the RSS to function properly, then;
a) EXIT Windows 3.1 and use normal DOS.
b) Set Windows 95 PROGRAM/ADVANCED Sheet to "MS-DOS Mode".

[Tom in D.C.]

Nand,

I suggest that you see if the infomation you posted can be put up over on Batlabs. I was unaware that Motorola had been posting updates for RSS that included computer speed data wherein the RSS's capabilities changed over time.

Regards,

[Nand]

Motorola doesn’t give a lot of info as far as what speed etc. to use. Right now they only tell you that it either runs under DOS or Windows. I don’t know if the latest versions of HT600 and P200 run on a fast computer or not. They like do not since these radios were discontinued long ago.

Nand.

[440roadrunner]

I've found an EXCELLANT source of old, slow computers to be the various thrift stores, if there are any in your town. Might want to spend a weekend sailing garages, too.

[Station House Products]

I've found an EXCELLANT source of old, slow computers to be the various thrift stores, if there are any in your town. Might want to spend a weekend sailing garages, too.

"You can't break it if it's broken, but you can fix it so it can't be fixed."

Delar, W7DJM

FleaBay is also a great source. Most times you can pick up a decent Toshiba for under $25.00, shipped.

[2wayfreq]

Welcome,
Just think of the time period when many of these models came out as to what PC processor motorola had to work with at that moment. I'll give a few examples:

Syntor-X/X-9000----> XT/286-10 Early 80s
MCX-1000------> 286/386-25 Early-Mid 80s
Saber-----------> 286/386/486-33 Late 80s to mid 90s

And please, this is not going to be very accurate but just to get the idea. These radios cant handle modern processors and operating systems, they are just too fast. Best bet is to go to a local swap meet/greedbay/thrift store or yard sale and get an old 286/386 machine and get it running with a good copy of DOS 6.22.
I found a 286 for 5 bucks and I put DOS and 4 MB memory in it. I also found a DELL 433/L (486-33) put DOS on as well. I am definitely never going to get rid of them, they are getting harder to find. Many people are just tossing 386/486s into the dumpster (still working).
I have been fortunate and got ahold of some factory rib cables for astro saber,HT-1000/MTSX, Visar, Waris Series etc. and a mint M Rib box.
Very critical tools for getting these radios programmed properly.

[Monty]

I've found an EXCELLANT source of old, slow computers to be the various thrift stores, if there are any in your town. Might want to spend a weekend sailing garages, too.

Tech Tip:


Keep in mind that these "Older" computers may not always
give the performance when they were new.

One may find bearings in HD have worn out, defective sectors
( do to being bounced around ), Dead BIOS Batteries, and the list continues.

Finding a "Stable" and reliable Computer for programming
is not a easy task, and I would NOT just take any computer
out of the basement, load your RSS onto it, and expect perfect
results.

If you are not computer savvy, it would be worth while to
take it to a Computer Tech that will not laugh at you for
needing the support of a older generation Computer.

We have set up a number of these, and learned that
replacing the Hard Drive with a New or Unused one under
8Giz ( like a Seagate ) will give you many years of reliable
service and is a excellent first step

Trying to rely on a Hard Drive with Bad Sectors, or is super
Noisy, or a unit that rattles inside is not the best choice.

We try and locate Old Computers that have the Password
enabled since those might have had the least usage. Then
contact a authorized Service Dealer, and have them remove
the password.

I am sure some of these may be looked at as being stolen computers (and I am sure some are) however, Often
I see a large company dumping a few 100's at a time, and many
are Password Protected from piror employees, and to their
lack of knowledge, these passwords can be overcome with
the proper tools.

If you want 100% protection, there are a few Toshibas Laptops
that MUST require a Factory Service Center to overcome the Password.....( or replace the security chip on the board ) the 4700
series offers the best security for this purpose. No Dongle in the
world can get around that series of security protection.

The ideal set up for those involved in Programming a lot of
radios:

Get a 3 ~ 8 Gig Hard Drive
Install System Commander ( Gives one the ability to select OS's )
like Win 3.1 / Win98 / DOS 6.22 ( all on one Computer )
4 ~ 12 Mb of memory ( good for Spectras, MTS's, etc. )

Get a Menu Driven Program: ( Eliminates all those anoying DOS Commands ) Load up youir RSS, and Program away.

Atypical of the way we set them up.



Monty