Factory Programming for trunked equipment?

[Kleptein]

Has anyone ever heard of Motorola programming trunked equipment at the factory? A local city is about to purchase about 900 units, XTL5000s and a variety of XTS portables, and the local shop has said that it will take them about 5 weeks to program them.

Can you supply a template/program to Motorola and get the equipment delivered ready to go?

[1 Adam 12]

I have seen it offered on some contracts, it was several hundred to set up the template and then from $30-40 per unit.... this was on a trunking system 2-3 years ago. Check with your sales or government rep for assistance would be the best route.

[Kleptein]

Thanks, 1A12.. we did check with the local rep, and were told that it isn't offered. It seems hard to believe, so I'd like to get some hard evidence that it is done elsewhere and take that back to him.

[wavetar]

5 weeks is a ridiculous amount of time to program 900 radios, assuming the radios are all programmed at a central location (or two) before being deployed to the field. Once the programming templates for each department are created, checked & approved, the rest is just cloning. I was easily able to program 200 MTS2000 units a day when first putting radios onto our provincial SmartZone system, and that included unpacking & re-packing the units myself. The XTS2500/5000 would be even quicker, since they program within seconds.

Unless you have Motorola FTRs involved with the template creating & approval process, I can guarantee you the radios will be programmed incorrectly at the factory (missing/wrong talkgroups, missing/wrong features enables, etc). Then they'll just have to be done again in the field, which WILL take 5 weeks with all the travel time involved.

Take the time to get it done right. Have the templates created by someone with experience doing so, whether it be a Motorola FTR or a good MSS tech. Have a sign-off meeting with each & every department that requires unique programming. That way, if they want something added/deleted afterwards, you can point to where they signed & tell them how much extra it's going to cost them to change things after the fact.

Todd

[RKG]

Agree with Wavetar, especially with some of the newer CPS versions that present a handy screen on clone for changing the UserID, MDC ID, and other unique information.

Figure a leisurely 3 min/radio (to avoid going nutty); this means 200+ radios in an 8 hour day and less than 3-4 days to finish the job.

[wavetar]

Well, the mobiles would take a little longer, as there's more to the packing/unpacking, but yes, a week to do it, tops!

Todd

[RKG]

Agreed; I misread XTL for XTS.

[Kleptein]

Actually, the templates are already created an in use. This would just be adding more units. I remember 10 years or so ago they used to do it, but now the local guy claims they don't. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't being done anywhere else!

[spectragod]

M used to do it, years back, they would also upload templates via a telephone connection to your computer for upgrades, new talkgroups and such. That is all the past, it is not done anymore.

SG

[wavetar]

Actually, the templates are already created an in use. This would just be adding more units. I remember 10 years or so ago they used to do it, but now the local guy claims they don't. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't being done anywhere else!

Well then, the hard part is done! You could fly me up there to get it done in a week & get off cheaper than your local MSS doing it in five

Todd

[n9upw]

Sorry to bump an old post, however after doing some searching, we are in a similar situation as the OP. We are currently purchasing some radios to be added to our system. We have a template that we are using. It has three zones, however not all channel positions are being used in those three zones. We are being told that in order to add any new talkgroups to the unused channel positions of our current template, a whole new template would need to be created. Any every time we want to add any channels, a new template needs to be created costing between $1-2k. Not to mention it would take about 4-6 months to create the template! Is this just a vendor trying to sell us something? Can you really not add any new talkgroups to a template once it is created? I guess I was under the impression that the template held all of the "system" information and talkgroups and zones in the radio could be added/deleted as necessary.

Thanks,
Derek

[Tom in D.C.]

$2,000 for 6 months works out to about $2 an hour. Sounds to me as if
someone doesn't want to be bothered helping you and made up a quick
example off the top of his head. I would make it a point not to call this
person again, ever, for any reason, if that's possible.

[n9upw]

Tom, I'm very much in agreement, however when this vendor is telling my higher ups and it's hard to convince them otherwise. We are contemplating buying our own software, but we are being told that a template can only be created my Mot or the vendor and I'm trying to get to the root of the truth.

[Monitor142]

Sheesh....is this your system by chance? If it is, sign the agreement and buy the CPS. If it is your system, then you should have the system key and be able to edit, modify, of create any template you want. You'll need to activate the new ID's unless you are doing a 1 for 1 replacement (watch same ID radios however).

The more I read what the vendor is saying, the more I want to barf on my keyboard.

Good luck on your endevors.

Brian
SmartNet 800 manager

[wavetar]

Derek, I feel your pain & have dealt with similar issues. It goes deeper than simply adding the talkgroups to the radios. It does have to do with the proper administration of a large trunking system, and depending on how many groups have their fingers in the pie, that can take a lot of co-ordination & paperwork processes. They do need to keep on top of who has what talkgroups in the radios. In my real-world example, when you want/need to add channels to a group of radios, the request gets put in to the system administrator/owner. They engage a third party who's sole purpose is to update & maintain all the various fleetmaps & radio configurations (buttons & switch layouts, menu functions, etc). They update all the applicable documents. If the talkgroups in question are already existing & being used by other agencies (perhaps you want it for interop purposes), their permission has to be obtained in writing before they can be allowed into the radios. If there are changes to be made in dispatch consoles, then the process really bogs down. Quite often the system owner needs to involve Motorola directly for that as it requires changes to the console database, and then you have to match up with their time table as well. Once all that's in place, we have to email the codeplugs to the system owner, as only they have the system key. They make the programming changes to the codeplugs, email them back to us, then we can finally dump the completed codeplugs into the radio.

A long & involved process that touches a lot of people who want to be paid for their time. In an ideal world it could be much quicker, easier & cheaper...but bureaucracy doesn't tend to work that way.

[larrybl]

In the middle of rebanding.
System in question was created in 1989 (Fleet map created)
Over the years various enties programed radios for this system.
I came on board 10 years ago, and struggled with gaining control of all the users on this system, and reigning in the system keys.
Over 1200 radios, and all are programmed differtently.
Rebanding gives me a great oppertunity to implement templates.
For the last 18 months,I have been interviewing all City Departments and agencies on this system.
From those interviews I created templates for each department agency, about a 8 month process.
The Templates I created will be used during rebanding.
Keep in mind that this is a ONE person job (so far), and I expext I'll either be a Guru, or scapegoat if this works/dosnt.

Larry

[wavetar]

Keep in mind that this is a ONE person job (so far), and I expext I'll either be a Guru, or scapegoat if this works/dosnt.

Larry

I highly recommend getting each department head to 'sign off' on the completed templates prior to programming, if you haven't already. That way when the regular users cry out because they don't have exactly what they want in their radios, they can be referred back to their own department head to deal with the headaches. I commend you for taking the initiative to regain proper control of the programming for radios on your system.