How long should a NiCad last?

Zap · Post by **Zap** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:03 pm

XTS3000 battery, NTN8294BR marked 329 ZUE9, charger:NTN7209A

Once charged and left out of the radio it is dead in a day or two.
It spent most of it's initial life in receive, almost no TX time.
As new died in 6-8 hrs as scanner reciever radio battery.

I'm not good at decoding battery codes, but has this fizzled prematurely, or is this all you get???

Doug

Al · Post by Al » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:22 pm

Well, there's lots of answers to your question, and here's one based on the Motorola-published battery tips card, the Gates rechargeable battery handbook, Isidor Buchmann's Cadex book, and twenty or so years of personal experience: NiCd life depends on how well the battery is cared for(i.e. storage temperatures, discharge/charge habits of the user, proper initialization, etc.), when it was manufactured(yours appears to have been manufactured in 2003, 29th week). Standing losses which cause the self-discharge that you're seeing increase with battery age in all batteries.
In a heavy-duty industrial environment where users don't observe good care practices, and the batteries get used 24/7, I see typically one and a half years before NiMH batteries drop below 80% capacity(which is where I replace them). In cases where a NiCD battery is severely abused I might only see a year before the 80% level is reached.
I'm sure many others here will have other opinions based upon their experiences and maybe they can give you additional insight.

Zap · Post by **Zap** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:34 pm

Without using a battery conditioner, can it be revived?
Used back to health?
Does the reverse polarity thing work, or is that something for mythbusters?

Post by **escomm** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:40 pm

The battery is almost 3 years old, that's probably your biggest issue.

Also, did you religiously deplete the battery before recharging it, and did you always make sure it was fully charged before using it again? It almost goes without saying that NiCD memory is one of its biggest drawbacks.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:44 pm

I have Ni-Cad packs over a decade old still in service. My newest OEM Jedi battery has a 2004 date code, the oldest being 1997, and they equally hold a good charge. What have I done? Very simple, I let the battery deplete it's usable charge (where the portable won't transmit), let it rest about 30 minutes, then charge them in my multichem chargers for about 6 hours.
NiCads can last an amazing number of charge/discharge cycles IF you store them properly and IF you follow the above procedure. I've yet to get the same long service life from NiMH batteries...when they go, they go.

Zap · Post by **Zap** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:41 pm

When it no longer transmits or receives, I took it off.
I don't know if I always waited 1/2 hr before recharging.
Perhaps sometimes less, perhaps upto 1/2 day.

But yes to the always full-charge question.

I have a NiMH NTN8923A I like but I need to find more.

It is a 301 which I guess is older than my NiCAD.
Damn !!

If a battery gets hot, either because of high drain (lots of TX) or from charging, will it be damaged when using it (more TX) when uncomfortably warm?

Doug

Will · Post by **Will** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:27 pm

Zap wrote: If a battery gets hot, either because of high drain (lots of TX) or from charging, will it be damaged when using it (more TX) when uncomfortably warm?

Doug

The battery gets hot due to over charging, this is the biggest killer of batteries.

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:43 am

Buy an impres chatger and battery
Well worth the money

fineshot1 · Post by **fineshot1** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:51 am

I would have to concur with Al above and add that I have always prefered NiCads to NiMH batts for a variety of reasons. The internal self discharge rate of NiMH batts seems to me to be much higher so you get a better shelf life from a NiCad(after a full charge) and generally speaking if treated correctly NiCads will last a long time before going bad. Also - Heat is always any batteries enemy and will not have a good long term effect on any batt internals. I have been using the Moto NiMH impress batteries since they came out and am not impressed(pardon the pun). I have seen what seems like more than the usual infant mortality on these.

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:35 am

From the information I recieved from a battery manufacturer, all of the above is true , but most NiCad batteries have about 1,000 charge cycles in them. If you throw your radio in the charger 3 or 4 times a day, you shorten the life span to 1/4 of what you can get.

Zap · Post by **Zap** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:48 am

WC4RAV wrote: --<SNIP>--
Very simple, I let the battery deplete it's usable charge (where the portable won't transmit), let it rest about 30 minutes, then charge them in my multichem chargers for about 6 hours.

If I say "depleted is when it is so discharged, the radio reboots itself in receive"
rather than your definition of "when the radio cannot fully function (Transmit)"

Will my definition prematurely kill the battery like deep discharging a car battery?

Doug

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:31 am

Do NOT try to equate NiCad deep cycle batteries with lead acid starting (car) batteries. Chemistry is different; battery care is different; and effect of battery misuse is different.

Lead acid batteries should NEVER be completely discharged and should be put on charge whenever discharged, to any level. Whether they can safely be left on a charger for an extended period depends on the nature of the charger.

NiCads, while in my experience few will give 1,000 cycles, are good for at least 500 or so cycles if they are used at a moderate discharge rate (about 5% average) until nearly depleted (the failure to transmit is not a good indicator, because of the high discharge current of transmitting, but either the radio reboot in Rx or the radio low battery beep are useful) and then recharged to complete recharge. Since there are no true float chargers for NiCads, they should not be left in the charger for long periods of time; about 12-14 hours max in a C10 (slow) charger or about green light plus 1-3 hours in a C1 (rapid) charger.

NiCads in storage (on the shelf) should be discharged and recharged about 1/4-6 weeks.

Strictly as a guess, Zap's battery was zapped either by long-term partially discharged shelf storage (sulphation or its equivalent) or repeated partial cycle charging (polarization). Strictly as a guess, it sounds too far gone to be restorable via "conditioning."

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:26 am

Another issue could be the charger, I've heard from several people about overcharging problems with this type of charger, but I can't confirm.
Anybody got anything on this ? He's using the NTN7209 world charger which also carries part # NTN1168 when packaged with a US cord (the one piece charger with transformer in the base).