Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

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Jonathan KC8RYW
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Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Jonathan KC8RYW »

Is it possible?

I'm assuming there's no way to do dual radio with an X9000 and a W9 with an Astro Spectra, right?
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George
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frankenstein dual drawer

Post by George »

My first reaction is to say no, this is not going to fly.

I can see an X9000 with a conventiona Spectra. This has already been done courtesy of the Washington State Patrol.

Why do you want to mix these two? What bands are we talking about?

George
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Post by Jonathan KC8RYW »

LB X9000 and VHF Spectra
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Post by Pj »

Wasn't the WSP setup...the spectra being a AUX receiver?

I think you may have better luck in just doing a dual radio setup. Granted limited to 64 channels, but at least you get a 64 channel scan list..
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Mike B
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Post by Mike B »

First off an Syntor X 9000 control head and an Astro Spectra W9 head are entirely different beasts. While its true with the later SMD construction control heads that the firmware chips is the only significant difference between them, what a difference that firmware makes (except for the HCN1062 SMD head which only has a small 2k EEPROM).

The X9k head stores all its mode names inside the control head. The Astro stores all its mode names inside the radio. So, the X9k tells the head to display the preprogrammed mode number. The Astro W9 sends the entire mode name to the control head. The result is the Astro W9 does not know what the X9k mode number is all about (it has no stored names) and the X9k head freaks out when it gets all the strange name letters sent to it.

You can try, but I predict you cannot get these two radio drawers to coexist with either control head. In fact I have no expectation that any X9k U501 radio firmware will get along with any Astro Spectra FLASH firmware on the same Systems 9000 serial data communication bus.

BTW, a Spectra A9 radio drawer does store the mode names inside the control head like the X9k does. If you can get the X9k/Spectra radio drawers to coexist on the same Systems 9000 bus this might have a chance. However, since the dual drawer A9 Spectra itself is still a mystery, I see a real problem. You might have to figure out the dual A9 Spectra first. The known dual drawer Spectra is a Systems Interface Unit(SIU), Hand Held Control Head (HHCH) and special SIU/HHCH code plug.
Pj wrote:Wasn't the WSP setup...the spectra being a AUX receiver?
Yes, this is correct. It also has a special hookup to the X9k.
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frankenstein dual drawer...I hear the monster groaning now..

Post by George »

Is there any particular reason why you are using an Astro Spectra?

Could you get by with 64 modes of low band and 64 modes of VHF?

Oh, I'll bet I know what's going on here...This all has to do with RSS issues and the limitations of the X9000, doesn't it?

George
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Post by Jonathan KC8RYW »

Assuming I understand the sys9000 bus, each device has it's own two digit ID. This is what the first part of the error codes are.

Assuming that is so...

Is there a way to make the Spectra respond as the secondary radio in a dual x9000 setup (41) as opposed to 01 in standalone?

Or does this sound like a job for someone who likes hacking firmware?
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Secondary Spectra

Post by George »

Yes, but how that's done is by establishing the Spectra as the secondary radio under the Spectra RSS.

There's an option in the setup screen (f9) that allows single or dual drawer operation.

I think this has to be done with both radios or just one on the bus at the time. You are going to have to do some diddling with this to find if you can program the secondary radio alone or if you will end up with having to have a primary and a secondary radio to establish the environment and THEN program the second radio.

Then you are going to remove the second radio from the Spectra arrangement and use it with your X9000 low band drawer.

This is going to be a major pain in the ass to change channels in on the Spectra side. (isn't there a product already named that?) You will have to take the Spectra and connect it to the dual drawer spectra arrangement, make your changes and return it to the X9000 setup.

By the time you are done, due to the pain in the ass factor, you are better off using an X9000 VHF drawer with your low band.

What you are essentually doing is what you would do with X9000 dual drawers anyway due to the RSS issues with the Ham 5.02 software. You are just using more stuff with the Spectra to accomplish the same thing.

On the other hand, if you want to prove you can do it, despite all the issues, you can do so and create the cable(s) to do it.

You could probably buy one of the cables from that joker advertising them as programming cables that are really WSP aux receiver cables for $79 a copy and the vast majority of the work is done. Then you are left with jumping through the configuration hoops on the spectra side.

Other things you need to do is to have the button configuration on the Spectra match the X9000 because if they don't, it will be confusing to operate.

What limits are you trying to overcome by using a Spectra? No matter what you going to end up 64 modes with names due to the limits in the RSS. Oh, and remember that annoying thing about the RSS eating the first character in the name list when you move down one mode.

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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by TWEMARS »

Let me put out some thoughts on this whole Dual Radio issue. First, I have used Syntor-X 9000 dual radios ever since Motorola first offered them. You use a DUAL RADIO version of the X9000 RSS and NOT the latest version (which is for the old BROWN HHCH, interface box etc. which totally wipes out your radio.

(EACH X-9000 radio must have an appropriate DUAL RADIO FIRMWARE chip before you begin.)

There is a SEPARATE Dual Radio control head program. You program EACH radio then the CONTROL HEAD. At this point you SHOULD be able to leave everything cobbled together and tell the RSS which radio you want to read and use the CONTROL HEAD RSS to program the head.

The easiest way to make a dual radio head is to ether take the latest VIRGIN control head board set (HLN1184). As purchased the board set or virgin head is DUMB. It has no idea if it's an analog Spectra A9, nor any kind of common Syntor-X until you program the head the first time. HINT HERE: There's a little square eeprom on the board. If you REMOVE it and CLONE IT you can just put in the prom in an applicable head and it will be DUMB.

Now what about Ham frequencies for an X9000 in a dual radio configuration? Works fine. Program the radio in question as a DUAL RADIO, Primary or Secondary radio. If it's the PRIMARY radio that's going out of band just remove the SECONDARY radio from the lashup. Then use the Ham 9000 RSS which doesn't look for the PRIMARY or SECONDARY radio bits in the codeplug. You can even use the dual radio head; just wait for the ERR 41/90 error to pass then go about your business.

If you want OOB frequencies in the SECONDARY radio. I suggest you begin by getting your head examined because it's a serious pain. You have to remove the plug from both radios and plug the PRIMARY radio connector into the SECONDARY radio and substitute most any 9000 control head that is NOT a dual radio head. That head doesn't know it's looking at a SECONDARY radio. Program then reassemble everything correctly and hope you didn't trash either radio codeplug.

More on control heads: I once made a 128 channel X-9000 radio (VHF Low for CHP channels) using the appropriate FIRMWARE prom in the radio and then made a 128 mode radio codeplug in the radio. IF you use a standard X-9000 control head you get 64 channels with names and the next 64 as 'MODE 65' etc. I wanted DIRECT TO CHANNEL buttons in the head. 128 modes is a long bonk from one end to the other and remembering 128 mode names? Not in what's left of this lifetime.

Anyhow, I simply took an ANALOG SPECTRA W9 control head and put it on a junk ANALOG SPECTRA 128 MODE RADIO. (REMEMBER, THIS RSS STORES THE NAMES IN THE CODEPLUG but programs the head separately. Put the 128 names in the Spectra codeplug. Frequencies don't really matter. Then put in YOUR names and set up the direct to channel buttons in the control head buttons scheme. Program the head and Spectra radio with the Spectra RSS.

SAVE THE CODEPLUG WHERE IT WON'T GET LOST OR TRASHED then program the head/fake radio and move the head to the Syntor-X 9000 radio. IT WILL WORK.

The key here is that the X-9000 and Analog Spectra control heads/radios speak the same language so to speak.
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by d119 »

Holy thread revival, Sandra! 11 years!
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Jim202 »

Yup, some people just don't get it. You would be much better off with 2 control heads and be done with it. Live with the issue and just walk on down the road.

I have both a Syntor X9000 L. B. and a Spectra VHF in my truck. Provides all the flexibility you can ever want. Dual radio packages are too limited in what your able to do.

Jim
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Pj »

Wow blast from the past.

The post above is what I think I wrote for the x9000 dual radio page here many moons back when I was playing with dual radio x9000's. Never played with the x9000/spectra setup.

Anyone still had dual radio or 128k firmware chips? I could use a few :)
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Jim202 »

Pj wrote:Wow blast from the past.

The post above is what I think I wrote for the x9000 dual radio page here many moons back when I was playing with dual radio x9000's. Never played with the x9000/spectra setup.

Anyone still had dual radio or 128k firmware chips? I could use a few :)


Isn't it amazing how someone can dig up a really old post and revive it? This one goes back to being originally posted in 2007.

Jim
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Pj »

One above or below as well - from a few extra moons ago
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by twowaytekk »

I still have a few of the old X9000/Spectra Aux radios. The biggest issues with the setup is the time bomb capacitors is the Spectra. The X9000 radios are programmed with X9000 RSS SP06 while the Spectra uses normal Spectra RSS.
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by apco25 »

This thread is evidence of us all getting old, really old.
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by George »

What is really scary is I have my 1983 Park Avenue back on the road with my vhf and uhf/low band x9000 set that I bought NEW in 1987 and they are still installed in this car even after having spent 14 years behind my mom’s woodshed. And they work PERFECTLY.
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Jim202 »

It would be nice if people would use the correct radio identification when they are trying to describe their use between a Spectra and an Astro Spectra radio. They are not the same. The hardware is not interchangeable. You can't mix the radios and control heads between a normal Spectra and an Astro Spectra. The programming software is not the same. They do not even work the same.

Unless someone has spent some serious software development, I see no way to mix a Syntor X9000 with an Astro Spectra. As already stated, the data flow is different and won't communicate between the different family of radios and control heads.

I have all 3 family of radios in use and just use the different control heads on the individual radios. Makes life so much easier.

Jim
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Pj »

I don’t see anywhere in recent threads mentioning Astro spectra..
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by com501 »

The Harris multiband mobile does this out of the box, for ALL bands. Just insert $$$$.
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Pj »

And it works well. I just don’t have the lowband amp, but LB RF works well - and with the CH100 head I get 12,500 possible channels :)
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by twowaytekk »

I just wish the CH100 buttons were customizable. This would allow the radio much more flexibility. I went so far as speaking with an engineer who said they have had that request many times. Forget trying to utilize the siren/light function. Way to many menus to scroll through.
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Re: Dual-Radio A9 Head -- X9000 primary and Spectra secondary?

Post by Pj »

I’m using the S/L setup in my other vehicle. I mentioned that at APCO in Denver, and one of the engineers basically looked at a sales manager and started to giggle.

At least you can PTT on the channel without having to backout, etc, but still a PITA. Same with nuisance delete.

But at least you can have all the mission plans in vs the 721 head. Since I multi state often, I just set up one plan per state which works for me... vs 721 and having to leave a programming cable plugged in
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