My setup.... current and future plans. Need opinions.

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nmfire10
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My setup.... current and future plans. Need opinions.

Post by nmfire10 »

Hey everyone. I am looking for some opinions on my current setup and my plans for additions.

My Truck's Pictures

Currently, I have a Icom IC-2800H Dual Band ham radio that I am using for everything plus a Relm MS-200 Scanner. The remote head for the Icom is on the dash over a blank A/C vent as shown in the picture. (actually, the picture shows my old Kenwood, but it is in the same spot). The scanner is under the dash in the usual spot. For antennae, there is dual-band ham on a hood-lip mount (L-Bracket NMO) on the Driverside of the hood and the scanner antenna is on the the same L-Bracket NMO off the passenger side of the toolbox in the back. Both seem to work extremely well. The SWR on the dual band is so minimal, the needle doesn't move. Now, I have been using the Ham radio for ham, emergency management, and fire and this is starting to annoy me so I have planned this upgrade.


First of all, the 60/40 split bench seat is going to be changed to buckets.

JottoDesk 15" console between seats
Syntor X9000 VHF (in console)
Systems 9000 Auxilary Control Panel for the lights (in console above x9000)
Relm scanner (next in line after the X9000)
Then behind all the radios in the console, a cup holder/storage bin.

There will also be a UHF PAC-RT in there somewhere hooked up to the X9000. I have pretty good mental picture of how it will look and operate and I think I like it. The only thing I need to set is antennas. How does this sound: A VHF 1/4 wave on the roof (NMO) behind the lightbar for the X9000 and a stealth antennex thing for the PAC-RT hidden somewhere? I can't put anything bigger on the roof due to the parking garage at work. I'd rather avoid another antenna by the hood or off the tool-box.

So, how does that all sound? Do-able and not going to explode
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com

eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"

:-?
hfitzgerald
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm

Antennas, Ham, Police, on Ford Ranger.

Post by hfitzgerald »

Ouch, too many antennas and not enough room.

If you need the BEST possible range from your antennas, I'd suggest putting a topper on the bed (a metal one) and mounting all three antennas back there.

Otherwise, I think you've got the best idea, putting a quarter wave behind the light bar. A couple things to consider, putting it farther back from the light bar keeps your forward radiation patters a bit more open, but also hurts your rear patterns slightly. Note, you will probably gain more forward than you will loose to the rear by mounting it a few inches from the end of the cab. Also, if your head ever hits the ceiling in an accident, the farther the antenna mount is out of the way, the lesser the chance of splitting you head.

Third idea, run a 5/8 wave or 1/2 wave from one of the back corrners of the pickup bed. This may not be practical depending on ease of installation and practicality. If you have trouble getting the 5/8 wave to radiate with that small of a ground plane, try the half wave. The impediance will be higher, but the radiation pattern isn't as dependent on a ground plane as the 5/8. (I think half-wave antennas are pretty much standard for boats and cars with fiberglass bodies).

Fourth idea. Give a call to COMTELCO (http://www.comtelcoantennas.com). They make a lot of antennas for public safety, and do a lot of custom work at very affordable prices. Ask to talk to their engineering department and explain the problem. They're very good at coming up with creative solution to these type of problems. (and it will cost you between 1/2 and 2/3 of what MAXRAD costs) Don't be worried about quality from them, they make some of MAXRAD's antennas and then Maxrad puts their own name on them.

God bless and good luck with your antennas,
Fitz.

P.S. Nice truck! It looks like you've put a lot of work into it.
Will
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Post by Will »

If at all posible try to stay 6" from the edge of the roof with the antenna at UHF. and hopefully 6" from the light bar metal frame.
This is the minimum needed for a ground plane at UHF, and nearfield pattern distortion.
hfitzgerald
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm

Antennas and radios in Ford Ranger.

Post by hfitzgerald »

Good call Will,

Also consider this.... If you usually respond to the scene and you leave your vehicle with the front pointing IN toward the accident scene, mount your UHF PAC-RT antenna forwards of the lightbar and the VHF Syntor behind the lightbar.
If you park with the bed of the truck to the accident scene, reverse the order. Either way, the VHF 1/4 wave is not going to be happy, but it will work. Use the thickest antenna rod you can (within reason). The thicker the rod, the wider the SWR match and the gentler the slopes are. If you have the ablility, borrow a graphing SWR analyzer and look at it when you make your install.

In fact, play around with a magnet mount 1/4 wave and a tuner and see what happens when you move it around. I would also suggest putting a 1/4 inch heavy duty rubber pad between the NMO mount and the headliner (before you re-install it). In the small chance that you do smack your head against the ceiling, there's less chance of spliting your cranium open. The bottom side of an NMO mount is anything but soft.
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nmfire10
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Post by nmfire10 »

hmm. I get the feeling some of you are speaking from experience on this cracking your head open thing :)

I was kind of hoping to literally HIDE the stealth UHF antenna for the PAC-RT somewhere (ie- not on the roof). On our rescue, radio service mounted one of those stealths UNDER THE TRUCK. Now, I can not see this as being a really good place for it. Is this common practice and ok or is it just really cheezy. If that is OK for the short range of the PAC-RT, that would be great. Otherwise, where else could I hide the thing?

Matt
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com

eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"

:-?
hfitzgerald
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm

Stealth antenna

Post by hfitzgerald »

Right, you're hiding that one...

Try this, run a piece of RG-58 or Teflon coax from the PAC-RT up the A-post of the cab (preferably passenger's side). Just below where it reaches the windshield, have it come out across the windshield with the coax shield stripped off. Cut it for 1/2 wave of exposed wire on whatever UHF frequency you're using. This should work, assuming the sun-tint that covers the top 4 inches of your windshield is chemically impregnated into the glass. If it's a metal composite sprayed on from the inside (unlikely) that may give you some problems. I think that the '91 Ranger had Solex glass, so it should be ok.

Another position along the windshield (I've seen remote-car starters put here) is right behind the center Rearview mirror. Run the coax up the inside of the trim on the A or B post (shortest route) and get it to the part of the headliner, just above the mount for the mirror. Have it come out from above the headliner and down onto the windshield. Pull the shield away from the center conductor for the distance of 1/4 wave. Have the center conductor go straight right, and the shield go straight left (both of these are taped to the windshield and run about 1 inch below the headliner horizontally across the windshield, one to the left and one to the right). And now you have a Dipole antenna! If this looks crude from the inside, cut the shield back and replace it with another straight piece of wire (soldered to the shield), it looks more professional. With the sun-tint that you have on the windshield, it shouldn't be visible from the outside (only the inside and only if you're looking behind the rear view mirror). The dipole would work best if it were vertically oriented instead of this horizontal orientation, but it still should give you satisfactory results. And it's the best that I can think of. Ask if you need further details.

I would avoid putting any antenna 'under' the vehicle. You're not going to get much radiation or reception under there. Worst case scenerio, put it behind a plastic grill in front of the engine radiator. Lastly, about a year ago I saw a guy on eBay selling 'stealth' antennas for VHF or UHF that would replace your vehicle's FM radio antenna. You'd loose your tunes (unless you have a tape or CD deck), but then again, who's listening to them when you're on a stakeout?

Regarding the 'splitting head open' part of my earlier messages. I had an internship for 3 years doing automotive design when I was in college. Multiple safety evaluations are preformed before, during, and after prototype development. I did a lot of work with rear-view mirrors, camera vision systems, climate control, and electro-magnetics. We also hear a lot of horror stories of people being mauled by the interior of a car in an accident. Remotes for garage door openers, steering wheels, shifters, rear-view mirrors, hard spots on the dash, police equipment (intalled after production), etc. But, some of it was fun. -Like testing electronics for survivability under static electricity. I got to use an Electro Static Discharge gun that looked like it was right out of Ghostbusters. It would shoot a blue arc of 40,000 volts about an inch.

Fitz.
Jesus Rocks!
metro121
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Post by metro121 »

I can't help but notice you live in an area with a lot of trees.

Judging by the looks of your last truck/tree encounter, you may want to consider an HT and a new pair of walking shoes.

PS, What happen to the tree??????
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nmfire10
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Post by nmfire10 »

metro121 wrote:I can't help but notice you live in an area with a lot of trees.

Judging by the looks of your last truck/tree encounter, you may want to consider an HT and a new pair of walking shoes.

PS, What happen to the tree??????
Oh ha ha. The trees wouldn't have been a problem if it wasn't for that nice steep hill and glazing of ice. If I were to walk everywhere, I'd probably screw my ankle up more than it already is (it's had a few too many sprains and twists). It doesn't take much to throw it off and damn it hurts.

The tree had a few scratches and a bruise. But compared to my truck, it won by a long shot. It was interesting being on the other side of the rescue call that day though. When I tell someone "I know how you feel", I really do.

I like the idea of the coax up the post with the wire along the windshield. I can't believe I didn't think of that before. Hell, it will save me the $$ on buying the antenna. I still don't know why they put that antenna under the truck, I mean, there is PLENTY of room on the roof of the truck, but no, they had to put it under it.
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com

eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"

:-?
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apco25
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 4:00 pm
What radios do you own?: APX / Astro 25 / Harris

Post by apco25 »

Do what several DNR law enforcement units do with the pac-rt. Keep the VHF antenna on the roof obviously along with the scanner antenna. You will have slightly skewed radiation patterns but it should be ok. Put the pac-rt antenna on the tool box. Most pac-rt's don't run more than 1w at best and you're generally in sight of the vehicle when using it. This should give you good performance, keep your profile low and the antenna out of the way. A coil type antenna without the whip would look good or if you really think you need the range go with a colinear 5/8 over 1/2 wave for some gain.
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