Communications For ATV Riding

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:32 am

Hopefully this isn't considered too far off topic. I am looking for some thoughts on the best communications choices while ATV riding in rural Minnesota and Wisconsin. I can't seem to find any maps or charts on line that show AMPS coverage. The trails that I like to ride on are very rural in both Minnesota and Wisconsin. I am issued a Nextel from work, but there simply isn't any iDEN coverage anywhere near most of the trails. I have just an old AMPS phone that I keep in the storage container hoping that there is still some AMPS service and that I am within an area of coverage, but who knows. I also have both a GROL and an amateur radio license, but that is of limited benefit in this case because most of the trail is not within coverage of a 2 meter repeater. And even if I was, often times that is kind of a false sense of security because I have been in areas where I have called for assistance and not gotten a peep out of anybody. I could bring a FPP VHF transceiver with, but I think that the best might be a phone. I haven't been bringing a GPS with, but I may start bringing one in the future. If I were on a north south trail and needed to call for assistance, but was out of coverage, I assume that there is no means to tell if I would be better going north or south to get within range of a cell tower. I have though about getting a used Motorola M800 bag phone, but I am not sure if it would be a better choice than the old AMPS phone or not.

WB6NVH · Post by **WB6NVH** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:57 pm

Where have you been? AMPS analog was turned off nationwide by all carriers months and months ago. I doubt it would still work anywhere, but maybe someone would comment on that who is more up to speed than I.

One option which has fallen substantially in price is the Qualcomm (and other) handheld satellite phones. The basic service is about $ 29 per month plus air time, and I believe they are using the old Iridium satellite system. The prices are continuing to get more competitive on these compared to regular cell phones, but most people don't need one. A guy had a like-new, working Qualcomm handheld satellite phone for $ 125 at a ham flea market last weekend.

The only thing that was somewhat surprising is that this network uses selective availability; for example, you can not use it in China and certain other countries which have requested black-outs.

Jim202 · Post by **Jim202** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:02 pm

Believe it or not, there are still some AMPS channels still in service in the back
country areas. It is not practical to change everything over with a low user base.

On the sat phone service, if you try getting new service, ask for US service and
not let then sell you international service. Calls are lower in price and you don't
have to use international calling prefixes. It's like just making a long distance call.

Jim

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:13 pm

Cellular provider directories which show areas of coverage are available for about $35
each. Last one I had was a really thick paperback. The first editions of these showed
only the local A & B system providers, but I would imagine that later versions have
much more data included, such as Sprint. Maps for each service provider have their served areas outlined in red ink.

Also, as sort of an afterthought, you mention VHF repeaters but not UHF. Are you certain
that there are absolutely NO amateur repeaters within range of where you travel? I agree
with you about the lack of response that sometimes occurs, but nevertheless the more
avenues of communication that are open to you in the back country the better off you'll
be if and when you need help.

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:31 pm

Thank you for the replies. I think that I ought to keep watching Ebay for a Motorola M800 bag phone. I think that they are CDMA and even with no subscription, they should get a wireless 911 call through on either Verizon or Sprint. Unless someone else has any other suggestions for a terrestrial wireless phone with very good range in remote areas.

WB6NVH · Post by **WB6NVH** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:18 pm

I believe the coverage guides were published by Communications Publishing, last located in Mercer Island, Washington. They also published the old IMTS mobile phone guides after AT&T quit doing so as a result of the 1982 divestiture. However, I don't think they are still publishing it. Might check Google.

You ought to be able to get an old AMPS phone almost for free because they are basically worthless. Then you could try it out. I was not aware that any carriers are still providing AMPS access but as no AMPS phones are being manufactured nor have they been for years, I would not cling to the hope that an AMPS phone will be the answer. Especially since the boondocks was exactly where you never had cell coverage originally! There was some traffic on these forums about AMPS phones back last year or early this year, you might search for it. I seem to recall most of the ON-Star car systems were still AMPS until very recently.

Finally, surprisingly, Motorola is making bag and installed car phones once again and marketing them to public safety users who need better range and performance than your typical little CDMA phone from the kiosk at the mall. They were being advertised in this month's Mobile Radio Technology (which just changed its name to something like "Urgent Communications I think.)

aaknitt · Post by **aaknitt** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:10 am

This Alltel Coverage Map shows pretty decent coverage in that area. Alltel is primarily CDMA, but some remote sites may still be analog capable, so a phone that does both would give you the best chances. Add a high gain antenna and chances are good that you'll have coverage when you need it. The CDMA bag phone sounds like a good idea.

WB6NVH · Post by **WB6NVH** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:29 pm

The M800 is one model they are currently advertising. I don't know if that's a model which was already in production or something they just introduced.

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:15 pm

In case I can't find a Motorola M800 soon enough, are there any other, preferably Motorola, handsets for CDMA that actually have an external antenna jack, or am I dating myself by even bringing up such an outdated thing?

aaknitt · Post by **aaknitt** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:04 pm

My V325i has an external antenna jack under the battery cover. It's a tiny connector (MCX??), and obviously you have to remove the battery cover to use it. Since it's a small flip-phone, it probably doesn't have nearly the power output that a M800 would have (that's a guess). It is analog capable. I don't think they're available new anymore, but there seems to be a large supply of them on ebay for about $30.

Post by **chrismoll** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:42 am

You could possibly take your phone now and sorta "break off" the antenna. I did on mine and you can stick in whatever telescopic or whip antenna ya got, maybe 4 feet or so and see if that works

WCHija · Post by **WCHija** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:51 am

http://www.hamcity.com/Detail.aspx?ID=1733

Have you thought of a mobile Amater radio as opposed to an HT? This dual band yaesu is intended for Motorcycle/Snowmobile use. 50/40 Watts and a gain antenna might do the trick. You can also get a dtmf mic for phone patching.

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:22 pm

A few friends and myself used TK-7180s (VHF Kenwood Mobiles) that I had supplied while on 4 wheeler trips and the coverage was fine, if you want to got the LMR route. Although I'm sure almost any VHF mobile 25w+ would suffice.

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:14 pm

My wife, two sons, and I went out this afternoon on the Soo Line Trail from Moose Lake MN to Onamia MN. We have only one ATV, so I sent my wife off on the trail with my oldest son, we met about an hour and a half later in McGrath and then switched. My youngest son and I continued the next leg of the trip from McGrath to Onamia. We learned a few things this time:

-even up there it does indeed seem as if AMPS is truly history

-two radios on a MURS frequency were very handy to help arrange a meet location since our Nextels did not work for most of the trail

Someone on another forum offered me an old phone for free. For this application, is CDMA likely to have better range than GSM, or isn't it that simple? Also, say for the sake of argument, that I end up getting a CDMA phone. Can I just buy some pre-paid plan minutes for this phone? What would be the least expensive plan for something like this? Also, might it be a good idea for me to get BOTH an old GSM AND a CDMA phone? Are there many places outdoors in rural areas where one has coverage and the other doesn't? Also, with regard to the Motorola M800 bag phone discussed in the earlier post, how much further range might it get compared to a typical CDMA handheld phone? I guess I don't know how big of a "footprint" a typical CDMA or GSM site has and how much further range a 3 watt unit with an external antenna will give.

WB6NVH · Post by **WB6NVH** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:25 pm

You are probably in the wrong forum now, for cell phone info.

Basically, GSM is AT&T and the old Cingular. It runs rings around my CDMA phone, but that's just my experience.

With a GSM phone, you can buy one on eBay and all you need is a SIM card, which is also on eBay. You can plug the SIM card into another phone and use that one, something you can't do on a CDMA phone. Check the web for info on things like "locked" GSM phones and so forth.

I believe all the major carriers offer prepaid phones, whether GSM or CDMA. But the CDMA ones tie you to the phone from the carrier and you can't do eBay stuff unless you take the phone to the carrier for programming.

CDMA bag phones may not all be 3 Watts. Check the specs. I have a feeling some might be less. And...if you can't hear a site, all the power in the world won't help.

wkr518 · Post by **wkr518** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:20 am

Are you on the ATV recreationally? Or part of a job description?
We did a mix - match solution for Rural SNR team on ATVs for Adirondacks.
Member riders use SPOT Satellite messengers in thier gear and supervisors carry Iridium satphones mounted on thier ATVs.
Satphone has to be on and the mag external antennas mounted to rear rack rail system for coverage.
SPOT can send precanned messages via SMS to satphones in case of emergency of " meet me here" locations with closest road or grid coordinates
Example message sent to handset-
DEP SPOT demo check on. Deb in Field - JH
ESN:0-7348200
Latitude:42.315
Longitude:-74.4331
Nearest Location:not known
Distance:not known
Time:04/16/2008 12:56:14 (US/Eastern)
Each SPOT has Unit ID so you know who is contacting or sending.
Just an idea
Wayne

elkbow · Post by **elkbow** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:11 pm

one of the guys i ride with has a dual band mobile ham unit, mounted in a large ammo can with a gain antenna mounted on top of the can for a good ground plane, that way you have plenty of db gain for the antenna and the power of the mobile unit, he has a remote head for the radio ran up to the pod area, works well

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:28 pm

I usually don't resurrect posts of mine that are this old, but in this case it is the same issue. I was ATVing this past weekend on the Gandy Dancer Trail near the Minnesota-Wisconsin state line south of Duluth-Superior. When I originally posted this I did bring my work Nextel unit with me, but I no longer have that. The iDen coverage was not great in that area, so that really isn't much of a loss. Anyway, does anybody happen to know if there are any other options available now that weren't available when I first posted this? I still see some CDMA Motorola M800 bag phones on Ebay, so I am still giving that some thought. Anyway, if anybody has any other land mobile solutions I will consider those or possibly I will post this in a cell phone forum.

cleb · Post by **cleb** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:54 pm

I have a SPOT, and recommend that if your in a truly "out of reach" area. It needs a pretty clear view of the sky, but if its an emergency chances are you can make that happen. Its about $100-$150 for the device, and somewhere around $100 a year depending on what level of service you want. My SPOT plan included GEOS insurance, which will help pay for rescue costs (helicopter, etc). Another option is a Delorme inReach. It can be used as a stand alone device, or paired with a smart phone. It allows messages to be received as well, which the SPOT does not do. The SPOT runs on the Globalstar network, which used to be somewhat spotty. They have launched quite a few new LEO birds, and things are getting better. The inReach runs off of the Iridium network, which is hard to beat.

HTH,

c

mmckenna · Post by **mmckenna** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:01 pm

The SPOT units are nice, we have a guy that occasionally rides with us that has one. I've heard some bad things about their customer service from more than a few people, but I don't own one, so no experience there myself.

I'm thinking of buying something, however.

I am strongly leaning towards a basic PLB/EPRIB type unit. It allows you to get help, and there is no subscription costs. They do cost more, but it's a one time cost. If all you need is a button to push in a real emergency, take a look at the Personal Locator Beacons.

I've been using UHF and VHF for years on ATV's. Finally got everyone we ride with on their ham tickets, so pretty much everything is on VHF now. Works well in the woods where we ride most. We used handhelds for a while, but with the noise, we discovered it wasn't always easy to hear. We've all pretty much switched to side by side machines now, a combination of Polaris Rzrs, Polaris Ranger and a Yamaha Rhino and a few ATV's. All have a VHF mobile radio installed with 5/8 antenna and an external speaker, except for the ATV's that use hand helds with speaker mics. Works well, and the extra power of the mobiles and the "real" antenna helps when you get stretched out on the trail.

Since we can use wide band on 2 meters, we can get away using older radios. A few GM300's still in the fleet. Nice thing is if they get wet or damaged, it's no big loss. Easy to pick one up for $40 or $50. A few crappy old Icom mobiles. I've put a CDM750 in my ride since those seem to be getting cheap on the used market.

AEC · Post by **AEC** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:22 am

Northern WI. is served by Verizon, ATT and Cellcom, with others thrown in.
Good coverage for TDMA and GSM in my area, but CDMA coverage from Wausau south is almost barren, with spotty coverage areas in specific locales.
CDMA/TDMA and GSM are great north of Wausau toe the U.P border, but I do not travel here often so I can not comment on coverage issues or service types available.
Never had any coverage issues in western WI. either, always had good signal on I-94 west through thw Twin Cities and Hudson. Also Hwy 8 and 70 into MN.